Luxury for Evil.

[Melhelix]

This, all of this. I love playing Lawful Evil, probably my favorite game for an evil character has to be KOTOR.

You get to reclaim your empire! Despite the good guys essentially kidnapping you and brainwashing you, you can succeed against all odds and seize back what was stolen! You win!

The problem with playing evil is most times it just feels like losing. It always seems like, oh you're evil, okay slaughter a whole bunch of people for no reason. No! I want to reward those who are loyal to me and build my power base, not kill them senselessly. I want to engage in propaganda campaigns and make people think -I'm the good guy- and I am doing what is best for the people. I want to abuse obscure laws to bring opposing orders down.

 

Anddd… I think I lost my train of thought somewhere. Regardless, I fully support multiple ways to finish quests. That don't penalize you simply for employing… less savory means of completion. I am looking forward to a no-alignment system, hopefully this will give everyone the freedom to do what they wish while still allowing the player to experience and interact with different viewpoints from the various factions. *cough* Manipulation! Intrigue! *cough*

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Taking the darker path was deincentivized in the Black Isle Infinity Engine games because they were aware children were a major audience.

 

Since this game has a deliberate and stated intention of dealing with darker role playing aspects, I am optimistic that you will get your wish for greater dark path rewards. As we all know, being a bastion of altruism is rarely as profitable as less stoic approaches to life's problems. It would be enjoyable to play a game which properly reflected that.

[TrashMan]

Evil, Good, Lawful, Chaotic ... kill 'em all I say. A pox on alignment

 

 

Ironicly, the VAST majority of poeple who say that have no idea how aligment actually works.

[LordCrash]

Sure, you should be able to play evil or good and in both ways the game should be entertaining!

[kabaliero]

One of the biggest downers for badguys is that other badguys don't necessarily like them just for sharing common opinions on the basics of ... social behaviour. They can't ever have a true friend. Just temporary allies. No matter the length of the "temporary", it will not last, once the control is lost.

Yet, some things make it all worthwile for them. And let Obsidian decide what will those things be.

[nikolokolus]

Evil, Good, Lawful, Chaotic ... kill 'em all I say. A pox on alignment

 

 

Ironicly, the VAST majority of poeple who say that have no idea how aligment actually works.

 

Ironically, I'm not in that VAST majority.

[Orogun01]

One of the biggest downers for badguys is that other badguys don't necessarily like them just for sharing common opinions on the basics of ... social behaviour. They can't ever have a true friend. Just temporary allies. No matter the length of the "temporary", it will not last, once the control is lost.

Yet, some things make it all worthwile for them. And let Obsidian decide what will those things be.

Nonsense, that's just poor writing in fiction. They don't want to portray evil characters as humans and so they deny them the most humans of connections because they don't want the audience to feel empathy for villains.

[Archmage Silver]

Evil, Good, Lawful, Chaotic ... kill 'em all I say. A pox on alignment

 

 

Ironicly, the VAST majority of poeple who say that have no idea how aligment actually works.

 

Ironically, I'm not in that VAST majority.

Now that's irony!

[Badmojo]

Yup, want a lot of variety of differnt types of evil to play.

 

You should not be punished in the game for being evil, there should be consequences, but the whole point of going (selfish anyway) evil is to gain something by any means necessary. At the end of the quest, you should have more wealth, power, connections..etc. Sure, you might have some dead orphans that you used in the sacrifice to the demon lord of a thousand pains to gain power and immortality, however you GAINED POWER AND IMMORTALITY! The price is worth it in your mind, too bad there is a huge reward for your head by the village and some heroes are coming to end your reign of terror....the fools, perhaps you should visit the heroes families and see what other deals you can make.

 

Then there is the political thing where through blackmail, backhand deals, propaganda, you become the mayor of a town where you can pass your own laws, like slavery is legal, anybody in prison is sold into slaver, and you get to decide the laws and those who are breaking them.

 

Lets say you want to play the black widow(er), you find the richest noble in town, she/he is married, you seduce the character into an affair and they are in love with you. You convince (or do it yourself) your 'love' to kill their spouse, so your character and person can get married. After the marriage your significant other has an 'accident' and now you inherited everyting. Everybody is suspiscious, but there is no evidence of foul play.

 

You open an orphange and seek donations, everybody feels sorry for the kids and donate, what they do not know is that you are running a sweat shop and working the kids to death.

 

Similiar, you open a religous order of the divine flame, a female (or male or both) only religious group that is secretive and always accepts lost souls. It is actually a prostituion/slaver ring.

 

Become a mafia like boss, respect and family is important. You go around offering protection money, it would be a shame if something happened to this building.

 

Become a smuggler.

 

Be a mage working on forbidden magic like necromancy, use it to make a profit, offer to bring back the loved one of someone, but they must pay...oh, and it might require a sentiant beings sacrifice if you do not want your loved one to come back...wrong.

 

etc....

[TrashMan]

The problem with "good" evil characters is that tehy are almsot always of the Mastermind variety.

 

And that requires long-term planing and goals.

How could the develoeprs put that in, then the player is the PC and he determines the goals?

 

In other words, they'd have to make plans for you.

[d0riangray]

I totally approve this thread, the inclusion of valid long-term profit for evil characters is key to a good role-playing experience. All too often short-term gain is woefully small when you look at the long-term benefits good choices get in exp/gold/items.

 

Mostly what I want to see is the inclusion of "smart" evil. Which lies, deceives and runs the long con instead of murdering all the kittens, as fun as that may be. It would be especially nice to be able to corrupt my companions, it was always a high point to bring the goody-two shoes down and destroy their moral highground.

Edited October 5, 2012 by d0riangray

[Gurkog]

Good players should be punished for doing the 'right' thing in a community that has different values. Stopping a ritual sacrifice or something because it is the 'right' thing to do could brand your character as a disturber of the peace. Factions would be wary of your presence because of your lack of regard for their traditions and values. Stuff like that would be nice.

 

EDIT: A good player who takes the law into their own hands could easily become an outlaw vigilante of any faction. Local powerbases do not like random hobo adventurers usurping their authority.

Edited October 5, 2012 by Gurkog

[salty]

In RPG's you are guilty of mass slaughter whether you're "good" OR "evil." That's the most ridiculous thing of all. If I'm trying to play evil but not a psychotic idiot, why would I choose to fight a big group instead of manipulating them with my diplomatic skills? But if you try to talk them down, you get good points for it. I want to talk them down and THEN murder them in their sleep and steal all their belongings. It's much easier for me and I probably get double the reward out of it. I know I definitely played NWN1 that way, and it was a lot of fun.

[Gurkog]

I think winning as an evil character is to convince everyone to give me what I want, even if it kills them indirectly.

[TrashMan]

Evil, Good, Lawful, Chaotic ... kill 'em all I say. A pox on alignment

 

 

Ironicly, the VAST majority of poeple who say that have no idea how aligment actually works.

 

Ironically, I'm not in that VAST majority.

 

I met plenty of people who claimed they understood aligment - but they didn't.

Their idea was restrictive and stiffled gameplay - so no wonder they didn't quite like it.

 

Aligment is a general direction. An indicator as to what a character aims for OR what a race gravitates towards as a whole.

It's not a straight-jacket or a club to beat people over the head with.

[Orogun01]

I think winning as an evil character is to convince everyone to give me what I want, even if it kills them indirectly.

That's not evil, that's just being selfish and apathetic.

Evil would be crushing them under your boot, or plotting to send them to a gruesome fate all while you revel at their suffering.

[salty]

I think winning as an evil character is to convince everyone to give me what I want, even if it kills them indirectly.

That's not evil, that's just being selfish and apathetic.

Evil would be crushing them under your boot, or plotting to send them to a gruesome fate all while you revel at their suffering.

 

Maybe selfishness and apathy ARE evil to that poster. That's the primary problem with alignment systems: everyone's moral compass is different, even within the same culture. The D&D alignments are based on Western ideals. You're basically saying evil = sadism, only.

 

Some cultures have eaten people and it wasn't evil to them, though it is to us. Some cultures eat dog, and there's plenty in Western culture who would find that evil. I'm a vegetarian. I think it's evil to eat veal or foie gras.

 

Soldiers don't think it's evil when they kill someone in a war, but if you kill someone outside of war, deserved or no, it's suddenly evil. A religion might tell their followers that they alone are good and direct their followers to hunt down witches. Those followers think they are good and everyone else is evil.

 

That's why the alignment system is silly. Do the drow think themselves evil? I'm excited from what I've heard so far about them trying to make distinct cultures with distinct beliefs.