PE already inspiring others

[Merin]

There's just something "off" about that project ... and I mean aside from the spartan details about gameplay (although I guess we know it will be a first person, party-based game).

 

The "two games for the price of one" gimmick really has me scratching my head. If the medieval fantasy game raises 1.85 million you get one game, if it raises 1.9 million you get one medieval fantasy game and a sci-fi game ... which splits the funding, so you get two 950K games. And how is this a good thing exactly?

 

They build the engine and the assets with a certain set of money. Once that work is done they need to create the story and encounters. It's not that hard to understand.

 

It's not an either/or or split thing like you say. They aren't going to have to recreate the tools for the second game. If they have the funding, some crossover work becomes possible and working on the two together is cheaper than working on two separate games entirely, if you understand what I'm saying.

 

If it doesn't look good enough to you or what you are interested in, that's your call.

[nikolokolus]

I get the idea of reusing assets and not having to reinvent the wheel, so to speak, so you make a good point.

 

I don't know, maybe I'm still leery because of that pitch video?

[Merin]

What exactly is the point of your post?

 

Don't count out a campaign until the last day, and even then you never know.

 

I believe you need to calm down a bit, 'cause you're being very confrontational in this topic.

 

I'm not meaning to pick on you in particular, norolim, so don't take it personally - I'm just branching off of what you are saying here.

 

So, honestly, mate, and I say this after watching your involvement in his topic for a while...calm down a bit.

 

Honestly - you're "genuine concern" is noted.

 

Thanks for the condescension. Mate.

 

You're ability to read through text whether someone needs to calm down is fascinating. Tell me, what am I feeling right now as I respond to you? Go on, guess!

 

------------------------------------------------------

 

I get the idea of reusing assets and not having to reinvent the wheel, so to speak, so you make a good point.

 

I don't know, maybe I'm still leery because of that pitch video?

 

yeah, you know, if it was just that video....

 

I understand.

 

But, sadly, here's the thing. What's the biggest advice that Kickstarter, the site, gives campaigns?

 

http://www.kickstart...king_your_video

 

Pitch videos almost never work on me, personally. Though I think Brian Fargo and Tim Schafer had very funny ones - that's also the problem. Old School RPG tried that model of humor (as have others) and humor is hard.

 

It comes across as forced and weird because they mostly failed at being Brian Fargo and Tim Schafer.

Edited October 9, 2012 by Merin

[Merin]

too many posts - combining

Edited October 9, 2012 by Merin

[norolim]

Yea, I must have been pissed about something and I took it out on you I still don't think the'll make it, though. I hope they will, but the numbers paint a sad picture.

[Piccolo]

I'm rather interested now that I know more about the game.

 

It's too bad they got off to such a sketchy start though. That probably put quite a few people off so much that they won't even bother to give it a second chance and follow the updates.

 

If only they could start over... they might've done really well.

[HeedlessHorseman]

I get the impression that they are being facetious. The overuse of the term “old-school” started to make me think this. Then the descriptions of the $10,000 pledges made me certain:

 

Brenda Brathwaite, Tom Hall and John Romero will drive to your house (in the continental US only), roll a red carpet to your door and hand deliver the game on a red velvet pillow.

 

For our international patrons, Tom Hall, Brenda Brathwaite and John Romero will meet you at Disneyland in Anaheim, California and spend the day with you and two friends endlessly expressing our gratitude to you for allowing us to make the type of game we love to make. We'll cover your entry into the park, feed you churros until you're sick of them and even spring for a coveted and likely embarrassing (for us) photo on the ride of your choice.

[ilhdr]

That's funny

[Moirnelithe]

Hmm, I've already pledged every cent I could spare (and some I couldn't) on the PE kickstarter and the BG:EE pre-order. But even if I had the money right now, that project consists of pretty much everything I -don't- like about RPGs: first person perspective, male protagonist, sci-fi setting and a messy badly timed kickstarter campaign to boot. Also their version of old style RPG (as repeated a little too often in the description) seems more like ancient style RPG to me.

[Merin]

Yea, I must have been pissed about something and I took it out on you I still don't think the'll make it, though. I hope they will, but the numbers paint a sad picture.

 

It's easy to read too much into stuff. I wasn't trying to attack you, just quoting what you wrote to continue a conversation.

 

All good.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

This kickstarter is a case of a 50/50 chance of getting funded which I think Obsidian thought about with their kickstarter. Where Obsidian excelled is their ongoing stretch goals and communication with their fans. While Obsidian had to scramble at first with their first couple of stretch goals, Obsidan then gave a lot of thought and listened to their fans on later stretch goals. Old School seems to have done the opposite by putting up some weird stretch goals and they don't have a forum to listen to their fans. It's all 'fly by the seat of their pants' stuff.

Edited October 9, 2012 by Hiro Protagonist II

[Hiro Protagonist II]

There's just something "off" about that project ... and I mean aside from the spartan details about gameplay (although I guess we know it will be a first person, party-based game).

 

The "two games for the price of one" gimmick really has me scratching my head. If the medieval fantasy game raises 1.85 million you get one game, if it raises 1.9 million you get one medieval fantasy game and a sci-fi game ... which splits the funding, so you get two 950K games. And how is this a good thing exactly?

 

Don't forget, if they did reach $1.9 million they would have to deliver two games in 14 months. That's not a lot of time to make two games with 'literally hundreds of quests'. The 'literally hundreds of quests' was a quote from one of the creators.

[JediMB]

Well, I loved reading the new update on the time-travel story, and the Mystery of the Disappearing Universe. While the names attached were enough to get me to pledge on day one, I do wish they'd had these details prepared from the start, to get the momentum going immediately.

 

I get the feeling that they have some fantastic ideas, and I'm certain they can craft a great game with them, but they're just being terrible at presenting the project to its potential investors.

 

male protagonist

 

I do wish that the female protagonist (mentioned for the second game) could have been given the highest priority. For once.

[Merin]

I think once PE is done they can start getting some attention. And campaigns can be turned around quite well - Takedown and Shadowrun Online were ones that, very near the end, didn't look like they'd make it.

 

The only thing keeping me from guaranteeing this will succeed - is the million dollar goal. If they were shooting for 400-500k, I'd say they almost couldn't fail. But a million... well, despite the last year or so of success stories, there are not that many one million dollar raising KS's.

 

So I think they are completely within the realm of the possible... but they need some help. Like doing some interviews, getting some evangelists. DoubleFine got a huge bump, early, because Felicia Day posted about supporting it. They need some endorsements from people who have followings who'd be interested in this game, just to get some notice.

 

And by endorsements, I mean places other than the KS Campaign's pitch page.

 

As simple as getting some other KS game's to support them with a donation would be a big help in their credibility, I think.

Edited October 10, 2012 by Merin

[Merin]

Okay, new update -

 

http://www.kickstart...al/posts/325470

 

a snippet -

 

 

You have free-movement and viewpoint through the world as you do in any modern-day, first-person shooter until you enter combat.

YOUR PARTY

 

Shaker: An Old School RPG features a six-character party - you and your 3 crew as well as 2 recruitable player characters. You begin the game as James Connelly, though you may customize him any way you like (including changing his appearance and gender). Next, you create 3 different Shaker operatives to join you on your Antera mission. Traveling back through time and space to arrive on Antera, you may recruit two locals to work on your crew.

YOUR CHARACTERS AND CREW

 

All characters and recruits have key statistics as quantified by Shaker Corporation: Strength, Vitality, Agility, Quickness, Intelligence, and Psy. The values of these attributes determine what Profession you qualify for. Your characters are also born with a specific BioTrait pattern. Similar to “race” in old-school games, a character’s BioTrait pre-disposes gives them certain strengths, weaknesses and powers. Recruiting locals (which you can, of course, fire) will help you to balance your party.

 

Still sounds good to me.

 

I do wish that the female protagonist (mentioned for the second game) could have been given the highest priority. For once.

 

You can make James female.

Edited October 10, 2012 by Merin

[Osvir]

Kickstarter is great on so many levels, Tom and Brenda will make a great game I'm sure. But at the same time yes, it is a little bit iffy, but so is Obsidian's Kickstarter to be completely honest.

 

I just think that's the thing with Kickstarters, they are iffy to make, and even more iffy for the viewer. Heck Wasteland 2 Kickstarter was iffy too and I think I laughed at it once or twice.

 

What I have collected, information:

 

* Publishers will tell the Devs how to make the game, or what to include in it (Such as advertisers, subliminal messaging or whatnot, popular culture today... just look at what happened with Guitar Hero... it's more like Pop Hero today. Rocksmith does look amazing though).

 

* Kickstarter gives the vision free reign. Obsidian can follow their dream, and when dreams are fulfilled, that's when you make a good product (just take a look at Avatar by James Cameron).

[norolim]

Okay, new update

Still sounds good to me.

Why couldn't they have prepared some of that at campaign start? Now, they desperately need an article on GameSpot or, as you mentioned, an endorsement from an Internet personality, maybe Angry Joe or TotalBiscuit.

 

You can make James female.

I hope you can change the name to somthing more suiting, when you decide to make him a her.

[crazyrabbits]

This kickstarter is a case of a 50/50 chance of getting funded which I think Obsidian thought about with their kickstarter. Where Obsidian excelled is their ongoing stretch goals and communication with their fans. While Obsidian had to scramble at first with their first couple of stretch goals, Obsidan then gave a lot of thought and listened to their fans on later stretch goals. Old School seems to have done the opposite by putting up some weird stretch goals and they don't have a forum to listen to their fans. It's all 'fly by the seat of their pants' stuff.

 

In my line of work, people who pitch tend to waste time by dodging questions or giving huge flowery explanations while circling the point. I only need to know three things - what do you need, how much is it going to cost, and when will it be done?

 

Obsidian has done a stellar job of maintaining a conservatively-run campaign, with enough content and fleshed out basic information to give backers a clear picture of what they want and how much funding they'll need right from the get-go, along with strong regard to fan feedback.

 

The Old-School RPG campaign, on the other hand, is all over the place. I still don't get their goals - they want to create a single game with the support of two developers, but they'll split off and do their own separate games if enough money is raised? It's being quoted as a successor to games like Wizardry, but it has a sci-fi edge with what appears to be an "old-school" setting shoehorned into the story? I like the pedigree of the developers - I really do. I can never fault the man who gave us the voice of Walton Simons in Deus Ex, but I just can't seem to get excited over this.

Edited October 10, 2012 by crazyrabbits

[Gecimen]

Kickstarter is great on so many levels, Tom and Brenda will make a great game I'm sure. But at the same time yes, it is a little bit iffy, but so is Obsidian's Kickstarter to be completely honest.

 

No it isn't. First off they clearly and expressively vocalize what talent they will use and what result we will get. Game mechanics are clear. So is basis of the story. Developers, story writers, designers, are all people we know. YES it can still dissappoint some of us, yet we know by heart it wont be because they do a shoddy work.

 

Heck Wasteland 2 Kickstarter was iffy too and I think I laughed at it once or twice.

 

Yes it was (while not so much as Shaker) hence I didn't back it. Instead I chose to back the double amount to P:E.

[JediMB]

You can make James female.

I hope you can change the name to somthing more suiting, when you decide to make him a her.

 

It's probably just a default name, like "John" is for ME's Shepard.

 

I guess either they've gotten some criticism for having their female protagonist as a stretch goal, or they just want a static character to refer to when talking about the game.

[TrashMan]

Meh... The entire setting idea doesn't really appeal to me.

 

I'm not a fan of time-travel. Nor of mixing magis/medieval fantasy with high-tech.

 

Nor of overly meaphysical/philosophical stories. Or too weird/bizzare/gloomy stuff. Which is why I was never attracted to PS:T.

[Althernai]

No it isn't. First off they clearly and expressively vocalize what talent they will use and what result we will get. Game mechanics are clear. So is basis of the story. Developers, story writers, designers, are all people we know. YES it can still dissappoint some of us, yet we know by heart it wont be because they do a shoddy work.

The Old School RPG (which finally got a name: Shaker) now has most of that -- the problem is that they didn't have it to begin with. Here are the first few lines of Obsidian's initial pitch:

 

<video>

Project Eternity is an isometric, party-based computer RPG set in a new fantasy world developed by Obsidian Entertainment.

<graphic>

Obsidian Entertainment and our legendary game designers Chris Avellone, Tim Cain, and Josh Sawyer are excited to bring you a new role-playing game for the PC. Project Eternity (working title) pays homage to the great Infinity Engine games of years past: Baldur’s Gate, Icewind Dale, and Planescape: Torment.

 

I remember that this was there from the very beginning because they basically had my money after those three sentences. The video and details were cool and the subsequent updates will determine how much I will ultimately pledge, but the game was already sold after those few lines.]

 

Now, here is Shaker's current pitch:

 

<video>

SHAKER: An Old School RPG is 1st-person, party-based, fantasy/sci-fi RPG brought to you by award-winning veterans.

<graphic>

Shaker: An Old School RPG is a first-person perspective, fantasy/sci-fi game set in a Bridge world between the future and the very distant medieval past. Taking the role of operative James Connelly (you may also customize your lead character), an employee of Shaker Corporation, you are called upon to set right a deadly chain of events that began millennia ago. You and your crew of 3 operatives will be deployed to Antera, a medieval, fantasy world in the distant past. There, under a feudal guise, you must unearth the very beginning of a horrible chain of events and avert it, or the universe we know today will cease to exist in a mere 100 years.

 

I think that aside from a poor understanding of article usage in the English language, this is actually pretty good... but that's definitely not how it was to begin with. For one thing, it didn't even have a name for a long time. I think that was a pretty serious mistake -- it makes it difficult to spread the word. It also took them a few days to establish that this will be a mix of fantasy and sci-fi. And they still don't mention any games that this game will be like in the opening lines. They mention what they worked on before at a later point and it is possible to guess from this and the description, but it doesn't grab people like saying the names to begin with would.

 

I think they still have a chance of making their goal, but they won't get far beyond it without some huge announcement.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

When you have loot drop admitting they've lost backers, it doesn't inspire confidence in the game. Loot drop should be showing confidence in their game, not admitting that all is not well.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I think Shaker looks really good, but I think it's been poorly marketed so far.

 

I doubled my pledge to Shaker earlier today.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I think once PE is done they can start getting some attention. And campaigns can be turned around quite well - Takedown and Shadowrun Online were ones that, very near the end, didn't look like they'd make it.

An excellent example.

 

The D&D Documentary was clearly not going to make its funding target, but then 7 days out, Paizo promoted the campaign in their regular e-mail flyer. And they tripled their funding in two days.