Challenging lockpicking process

[nikolokolus]

I think I just found a better tool for the job

 

[Tychoxi]

This is way too complex!

Personally as long as they don't attach a minigame I'm OK with pretty much anything that involves at least some of my char's stats/skills/whatever. FO was awesome I must add, it was skillbased, and you had the alternatives of prying the door open with a crowbar (OF COURSE, depending on your STR), kickin' them down (STR and unarmed?), blowin' them up (explosives, though it didn't matter much), etc... just awesome.

Edited September 27, 2012 by Tychoxi

[czinczar]

Right. First things first requiring 4+ skills, that have no value on there own or in other context, to do one very specific thing is a very bad idea. It means I'd have to invest 4x the resources on that one activity to be just as good as I could be at any other. That's not really a tactically sound position and I think it would turn most people off lock picking.

 

You are obviously unaware of the possibilities of game balancing. You can scale up or down the xp required by any given skill to level up..

[RosesandAshes]

Can't I just click on something, click on my character, select their lockpicking ability, click on the thing I want to open, and then hoard all the treasure for myself? Why does everything have to be so complicated? A lockpicking spell would be even less complicated, then you can just say "the magic did it" and be done.

[Malcador]

Seems like this is a case of trying for a simulation.

[czinczar]

Can't I just click on something, click on my character, select their lockpicking ability, click on the thing I want to open, and then hoard all the treasure for myself? Why does everything have to be so complicated? A lockpicking spell would be even less complicated, then you can just say "the magic did it" and be done.

 

Why do you even want something to be locked ? Do you want a mode where nothing in the game is locked ?

[Silver6986]

God dammit, please just leave lockpicking to something like either Fallout or KOTOR. We don't need a bloody lockpicking minigame screwing with our flow!

FNV style would be the best i think. at most you can add the need for specific lockpick types for specific lock types but no more than that. let's say 3 diferent types of locks and 3 diferent types of picks if you have the right pick and the skill you can try to open the lock fallout style and that's it.

 

I agree, FNV style would be a good option to go with imo.

 

OP has suggested WAY too much depth and complexity for me regarding such a skill for this game, that even sounds like a tall ask to be implemented in a game where you basically play a thief, no party, that's it (kind of like what I imagine the Thief games may be like - not that I have played them).

[Sylvius the Mad]

I proposed a magic system less complicated than this and got shouted down for trying to turn PE into an alchemical lab simulator (which was a fair criticism).

 

I don't think this will fly.

 

But I would totally play Lockpicking: The Lockpickening

[Epsilon Rose]

Right. First things first requiring 4+ skills, that have no value on there own or in other context, to do one very specific thing is a very bad idea. It means I'd have to invest 4x the resources on that one activity to be just as good as I could be at any other. That's not really a tactically sound position and I think it would turn most people off lock picking.

 

You are obviously unaware of the possibilities of game balancing. You can scale up or down the xp required by any given skill to level up..

That only applies if you can level skills individually, in which case having 4 different skills is meaningless (since they'll all get used at the same rate) or punitive (since some skills will level faster than others and the player has no control over it). Neither of those options are good. For my part, since this is a class based game I was assuming you'd be adding skill-points en-mass on level up. If that's the case having 4 skills would still require you to waste 4 times the resources and while yes, you can, change how much xp a skill gives when you use it futzing with that is actually a bad thing because it will cause you to level faster then people who don't pick locks which means either you'll be over-leveled or most parties will be under-leveled. Again, neither option is good.

[Acre]

Liked the lockpicking minigame in Fallout 3/NV, but it seems like a poor fit for a (largely) party-based game. Wouldn't that leave five of my guys are unattended? Unless the game paused during lockpicking, but ehhh...

If there's to be some special challenge to lockpicking, it should probably be what you do with the five guys who arent doing the 'picking.

But they could surely improve on the lockpicking from the early Fallouts or Baldur's Gate, where you'd just keep using the skill until you got "success!"

Like maybe a time element... this door takes so-and-so seconds to open - during which time the rest of the party fights gorks and gumblins or whatever.

[Epsilon Rose]

Actually, adding a time based element could be really interesting, particularly if you're doing a stealth based run or are trying to escape.

[Tuco Benedicto]

I proposed a magic system less complicated than this and got shouted down for trying to turn PE into an alchemical lab simulator (which was a fair criticism).

Care to point it? I'm genuinely curious now.

By any chance it was something reagent-based like for the old Ultima games?

[Chunkyman]

While I have suggestions for the lock mechanics of the game (give us lock bashing!), I think this system you propose is rather excessive.

[Totottoro]

The cake is a.. what?

 

EDIT: Damn... now I want cake

Edited September 27, 2012 by Totottoro

[miasma]

Whoever said bashable doors/chest, I want that.

[Hoverdog]

NO MINIGAMES.

 

 

 

I hope I made myself clear.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I proposed a magic system less complicated than this and got shouted down for trying to turn PE into an alchemical lab simulator (which was a fair criticism).

Care to point it? I'm genuinely curious now.

By any chance it was something reagent-based like for the old Ultima games?

It was.

[czinczar]

Right. First things first requiring 4+ skills, that have no value on there own or in other context, to do one very specific thing is a very bad idea. It means I'd have to invest 4x the resources on that one activity to be just as good as I could be at any other. That's not really a tactically sound position and I think it would turn most people off lock picking.

 

You are obviously unaware of the possibilities of game balancing. You can scale up or down the xp required by any given skill to level up..

That only applies if you can level skills individually, in which case having 4 different skills is meaningless (since they'll all get used at the same rate) or punitive (since some skills will level faster than others and the player has no control over it). Neither of those options are good. For my part, since this is a class based game I was assuming you'd be adding skill-points en-mass on level up. If that's the case having 4 skills would still require you to waste 4 times the resources and while yes, you can, change how much xp a skill gives when you use it futzing with that is actually a bad thing because it will cause you to level faster then people who don't pick locks which means either you'll be over-leveled or most parties will be under-leveled. Again, neither option is good.

 

 

Imagine you have only one skill named "lockpicking", you earn 100xp for whatever action, your lockpicking skill advances by 100xp.

Imagine you have a group of skills under "lockpicking" section. You earn 100xp for whatever action, you got to chose how to distribute those 100xp between the subskills.

There could also be a "lockpicking level", just to show your advancement in that department, and could be used or not as a check against higher level locks.

 

Anyway, the devs have already separated combat skills from non-combat skills, they recognized that killing a rat shouldn't advance your lockpicking skill, they recognized that it is not the ideal, most consistent system. Now I am just waiting for them to announce that they want to separate non-combat skills from other non-combat skills, in the same fashion. They are free from any D&D rule..

[Undecaf]

NO MINIGAMES.

 

That's the crux of it.

[czinczar]

I proposed a magic system less complicated than this and got shouted down for trying to turn PE into an alchemical lab simulator (which was a fair criticism).

 

I don't think this will fly.

 

But I would totally play Lockpicking: The Lockpickening

But I am not sure that your proposition is less complex than mine. You haven't entered the complexity of it. IMO you should create a thread and present it, even if you know most will disregard it. You will also realise that the more you unfold it, the more complexity you will find.

[Ink Blot]

I agree with Hoverdog. Don't want minigame for lockpicking, and I see no fun increase for the player by breaking a lock picking skill down into sub skills.

 

What I'd like to see is as others have mentioned: several ways to get through a lock. Lockpicking, bashing, spells. All are good. As much as I love playing Thief/Rogue type characters, I don't want a game where you feel you must have one in the party.

 

If containers are bashed, I wouldn't mind seeing a percentage chance that something fragile inside breaks (So you'd still get the gold and that magic dagger, but the potions of invisibility and healing are shattered).

[Waywocket]

I despise lockpicking minigames with a burning intensity that cannot be described.

 

I think that was one of the things I hated most about Fallout 3, a game which I consider to be only marginally more entertaining than a squashed turd.

[Amentep]

I'm not crazy about lockpicking minigames either. This is partially because they seem to either err too much on the side of the user (making it relatively easy to lockpick any lock with a modicum of personal skill) or too much on the side of the locks (in which case even with a good skill the user has a hard time doing the minigame).

 

Ultimately I'd like my characters skills to be their skills, not how fast I can bop some tumblers up.

 

That said I actually wouldn't mind the idea of the lockpicking skill encompassing multiple types of locks in some way (maybe after X skill rank you add new locks to your repertoire showing your expertise?) or specialized equipment. I just don't think I as the player should be required to pick a lock for my character with my skills when they're the one whose invested the time in learning how to pick a lock.

[Karranthain]

Ultimately I'd like my characters skills to be their skills, not how fast I can bop some tumblers up.

 

Indeed. That's what cRPGs are meant to be, after all.

[Tychoxi]

NO MINIGAMES.

 

 

 

I hope I made myself clear.

 

[intelligence] So you are saying you wouldn't want any minigames?