2D Isometric Graphics (Warning: Large Pictures)

[mote]

Hi there,

I pledged early to this Kickstarter, and was very excited about the part in the video presentation about the Infinity Engine, the fixed viewpoint isometric graphics in particular. This thread isn't about the roleplaying or combat mechanics or the story of the game, but purely the graphical look. What I think made the Infinity Engine games and others like Fallout 1/2 and Arcanum look so good, was the pre-rendered graphics, they looked so "realistic", like a work of art. So it got me thinking, I'm sure Obsidian isn't going to make a game that looks exactly like the Infinity Engine games except in higher resolution (although I wouldn't even complain about this), but the Infinity Engine games were made in the late 90's and the year 2000. What kind of 2D graphics could be acheived, within budget and time limitations, with modern technology?

 

I've been following the development of an indie adventure game called STASIS for a while now, the guy making it is apparently a professional CG artist, and in addition to that game he's also posted "tech demo" screens for other ideas he's had. So as they say a picture says a thousand words, so I'll post some...

 

There's also videos of these in action.

 

Now I'm not trying to parrot this guys stuff, but it got me thinking, one (obviously very talented) independent developer is able to put together stuff on a limited budget that looks that good, imagine what Obsidian could accomplish with up to 3 million dollars or more, experienced developers etc.

 

Also, there's a bit of a preconception among younger gamers that 2D graphics always look retro/pixelated, which I think this proves they don't.

 

There's also some screens of "tech demos" he did for a post-apocalypic setting, and a noir science-fiction one, which I'll post in a second due to image limit.

Edited September 21, 2012 by mote

[Syraxis]

Honestly I'd be happy with an updated version of what Jefferson Was to be:

 

 

[mote]

The "post-apocalyptic" setting:

 

[Karranthain]

Yeah, I love good 2D background.

 

Check this topic too : http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60408-a-thought-on-pes-graphics/

[Cantousent]

I thik Mote's pictures are quite stunning. The art direction for Jefferson is certainly more appropriate, but Jefferson was a while back and I think they can take the art direction and do more with the graphics. I, for one, would be happy with the beautifully crafted CG work of mote's examples with the understanding that it will be used for more genre appropriate settings. Of course, for all we know, there might be a place or two in PE that looks just like the area in mote's pics. You never know.

[Nivenus]

Whether or not the game is truly isometric (fixed perspective, equal angles/sides, etc.) doesn't matter to me that much. I think an overhead 3D camera similar to Wasteland 2 would be entirely okay. But then again I'd be okay if the game was just third-person, which I know many here most emphatically would not be okay with.

 

So I really could go either way.

[mote]

And finally, the "blade-runner" like setting:

 

Obviously none of these are medieval/fantasy, but it's just my opinion/idea on what kind of isometric style PE could go for. Discuss this if you would like

[Oerwinde]

I'm glad no one is advocating a return of tile-based backgrounds... Loaded up Arcanum last night and it hasn't aged well, yet BG2 is beautiful, as are most of these screens.

[Syraxis]

I'm glad no one is advocating a return of tile-based backgrounds... Loaded up Arcanum last night and it hasn't aged well, yet BG2 is beautiful, as are most of these screens.

 

Nor Fallout 1/2 especially when used with a high resolution mod

[Cantousent]

Tile-based backgrounds make me think of NWN, which I always thought looked ugly, from the very first day. Of course, they were held captive to a tool-set, which made me resent tool-sets for a long time. I don't mind 3D, but I don't think it's the end all be all. The one thing I can say about it is that it is nice to be able to rotate the camera, but if the new area you see isn't any better looking than the area you were already viewing, why should that matter? I dunno, but beauty seems to trump the rotate feature as long as you can see every relevant thing and there's nothing to be missed.

[eselle28]

I'm glad no one is advocating a return of tile-based backgrounds... Loaded up Arcanum last night and it hasn't aged well, yet BG2 is beautiful, as are most of these screens.

 

BG2's graphics have aged quite well. Granted, the sprites are less than beautiful, but the towns and the landscapes look much better to me now than many older games with 3D graphics. I think the "painted" look may end up being a little more durable than attempts at photorealism.

[Umberlin]

A better question, "Why wouldn't I want to see graphics like that?" mote's first four contribution to the thread being amongst my favorites.

Edited September 21, 2012 by Umberlin

[descalabro]

The "post-apocalyptic" setting:

 

 

 

These look great, but here's the problem: they look like pictures, and animations would be a pain to blend with this I think. Still, I've seen the videos and the PC is well integrated. If animations could be properly added I think we would have a marvel here. This should have been Fallout 3.

Edited September 22, 2012 by descalabro

[descalabro]

And finally, the "blade-runner" like setting:

 

Obviously none of these are medieval/fantasy, but it's just my opinion/idea on what kind of isometric style PE could go for. Discuss this if you would like

 

Is this a game or just fan-made art?

[Tauron]

I think it looks beautifull, especially that statis game...i will defenetly be checking that out!

[MinotaurWarrior]

I'm glad no one is advocating a return of tile-based backgrounds... Loaded up Arcanum last night and it hasn't aged well, yet BG2 is beautiful, as are most of these screens.

 

BG2's graphics have aged quite well. Granted, the sprites are less than beautiful, but the towns and the landscapes look much better to me now than many older games with 3D graphics. I think the "painted" look may end up being a little more durable than attempts at photorealism.

 

Honestly, I feel like the IE games hold up better than games from two years ago. 2D art simply never becomes obsolete. I'd prefer it if this game went more in the direction of the original IE games than a lot of what I'm seeing suggested / expected. Flat, simple pictures of fantasy realms are more than good enough for me.

[Piccolo]

I love 2D graphics, whether it be for isometric RPGs or strategy games. 3D just isn't a substitute, and it's fairly ridiculous that new games coming out look worse than games released in the 90s.

[descalabro]

Hi there,

I pledged early to this Kickstarter, and was very excited about the part in the video presentation about the Infinity Engine, the fixed viewpoint isometric graphics in particular. This thread isn't about the roleplaying or combat mechanics or the story of the game, but purely the graphical look. What I think made the Infinity Engine games and others like Fallout 1/2 and Arcanum look so good, was the pre-rendered graphics, they looked so "realistic", like a work of art. So it got me thinking, I'm sure Obsidian isn't going to make a game that looks exactly like the Infinity Engine games except in higher resolution (although I wouldn't even complain about this), but the Infinity Engine games were made in the late 90's and the year 2000. What kind of 2D graphics could be acheived, within budget and time limitations, with modern technology?

 

I've been following the development of an indie adventure game called STASIS for a while now, the guy making it is apparently a professional CG artist, and in addition to that game he's also posted "tech demo" screens for other ideas he's had. So as they say a picture says a thousand words, so I'll post some...

 

 

 

There's also videos of these in action.

 

Now I'm not trying to parrot this guys stuff, but it got me thinking, one (obviously very talented) independent developer is able to put together stuff on a limited budget that looks that good, imagine what Obsidian could accomplish with up to 3 million dollars or more, experienced developers etc.

 

Also, there's a bit of a preconception among younger gamers that 2D graphics always look retro/pixelated, which I think this proves they don't.

 

There's also some screens of "tech demos" he did for a post-apocalypic setting, and a noir science-fiction one, which I'll post in a second due to image limit.

 

Damn! These are awesome...

 

It has always been my belief that there is still a lot to explore with isometric graphics, and I've mentioned in a post somewhere that post-modern/futuristic settings have an even greater potential mainly because they allow for interaction with gadgets, motors, mechanisms, computers implemented in the game scenario (Fallout 1 & 2 come to mind) and they relate easier with mature themes. Graphics like these with animated elements make my day, and I wonder if there's a reason why this quality of isometrics is most often applied to adventure/puzzle games rather RPGs.

[mote]

There is videos, I did mention that, I'll post them:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61ILFgiYaRU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRylpn1sqxk

Edited September 22, 2012 by mote

[mote]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwuWeRdha3I Edited September 22, 2012 by mote

[Tuco Benedicto]

Honestly, I would be fine with pretty much any art style that looks pretty enough. Hyper-realistic, over-stylized, cartoony, gothic... I don't mind the art style too much as far as it's well executed. of course I have my personal preferences, but nothing is a deal breaker.

And while I don't care for fancy visual tech, I surely am not ashamed to say that I'm hoping for this game to look as nice and pretty as possible.

 

Which leads me to the the main point I want to make: I'm not really concerned about the backgrounds of Project Eternity.

If they are actually going to use 2D scenery, I'm very confident they can make these look beautiful with very little effort.

What I'm far more concerned about -especially considering Obsidian's track record (sorry guys! )- is how well they are going to nail characters's models, creatures and all their animations.

 

Animations for me are a big deal in the visual appeal of a game. I would probably pick a wireframe game with excellent, smooth animations over fancy graphics with clumsy ones.

 

in fact, I'm tremendously fond of games with over-stylized graphics like Another Wolrd and Darklands:

 

 

[mote]

Nice, Darklands. I loved how your party could explore anywhere in the map in that game, completely open world, it was way ahead of it's time.

[Jaesun]

Haven't they already stated this will be using 2D backdrops (that were originally 3D renders) and with 3D (exactly like the IE Engine Games)?

[LordCrash]

There is videos, I did mention that, I'll post them:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61ILFgiYaRU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRylpn1sqxk

The "1000 years later tech demo" is just great! I would be thrilled if a graphic style like that (fantasy for sure) could be implemented in PE.

[descalabro]

My answer to this topic is "Yes" but with many in-game animated elements.