Don't force me to play a jedi

[triCritical]

1) I don't want to play a Jedi. I would rather play a roleplaying game that was firmly grounded in the Star Wars universe, that had Jedi's but that did not require me to be a jedi to complete it. I think their are many characters and personalities, which can be as equally fun as a jedi. From the good Star Wars movies, I would have rather have been Chewbacca, C3PO, Han Solo, or even lando over Luke.

 

2) I think playing a different race would be fun. I would love to play, whatever the hell you call yoda's!

[CrashT]

I'd rather be Obi Wan than any of them but that's beside the point. I think after KoTOR it's a given that the main character will be a Jedi. I agree that it' be great if you could choose to play a Scout or Soldier for the entire game but that doesn't look like it's going to happen.

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Unfortunately i don't think KoTOR2 will allow for that. Those would be interesting elements, though, much more in tune with the whole universe instead of just one part of it.

[tripleRRR]

Since the game title is "Knights of the Old Republic" I think it is safe to assume that you will be a jedi no matter what.

 

 

TripleRRR

[Aurora]

I have a vague desire to play a non-Jedi character, but I'm fine with Jedi default.

 

No desire at all to play a non-human - don't see the point at all beyond stat differences. Different races are one thing in D&D games where everyone among the base races is humanoid and all the cultures are vaguely similar - Star Wars aliens are pretty different from each other in theory. I'd rather see more focus spent on the character's skills & stats & style and how that all affects the game than on a few different things depending on if your whole body is covered in fur or not.

[triCritical]

Forcing me to play a jedi really hurt my ability to roleplay, because up until I became a jedi, I was trying to a play a character that hated Jedi's. Maybe I was naive, but I thought the jedi classes were balanced prestige classes, instead of just forcing me to change my occupation. Maybe this is just me, but I think there is a lot to explore out there, instead of just Jedi Black and white.

 

So can allowing for non-jedi's be changed?

 

And what about races? It wasn't a joke, I really love to play a different race. Obviously not all can be made to play, but the major ones such as wookie's, the two extremely common ones that were more ubiquitous then human and yoda's.

 

I am looking for signs of things that will actually make this game a bit more interesting from a replayability standpoint.

 

Since the game title is "Knights of the Old Republic" I think it is safe to assume that you will be a jedi no matter what.

 

Well if its like KotOR, then every other person is a jedi. So just because my character is not a knight, if that even means jedi, doesn't mean their won't be any knights

[Enoch]

Ideally, I agree. A SW RPG should have options to play non-jedi and non-humans.

 

However, I can see why they would make a decision to limit our options here.

 

The first reason is simply balancing the jedi classes with the non-jedi. The widespread practice of level-saving in KotOR show how lousy a job they did of that in the first game. Forcing the PC to be a jedi makes this much less important. (Personally, I still think they should make the effort to nerf the jedi classes, if only to make the game more challenging. Given the probable fan responses, though, this is unlikely.)

 

The second reason, of course, is story-based. It's much easier to write an interesting story that can accommodate every player if there's something to tie all of the potential PCs together. In BG, you had to play a Bhaalspawn; in Fallout, you had to play the Vault Dweller; in PS:T, you had to play TNO. Granted, most of these restrictions don't limit the class-like capabilities of your character the way a jedi-only restriction does, but the principle remains. If being limited to jedi-only leads to a more compelling story, I'm willing to follow along for now. Though, I'd really be happier of they'd shoot for the moon and give us some non-jedi options.

[triCritical]

Though, I'd really be happier of they'd shoot for the moon and give us some non-jedi options.

Honestly, if its early enough in development maybe they can change this. I am hoping that Obsidian breaks away from their bhaalspawn/master jedi formula, which you're character secretly is.

[kefka]

It's almost certain that we'll play a Jedi again - the last Jedi, in fact - but I see no reason why you must be human.

 

Hell, I wanted to be like that Mandalorian Sherruk on Dantooine, who collected lightsabers, but overall I don't mind being a Jedi... well, in my case a Sith.

[Aurora]

Wookiees can't, afaik, even speak non-Wookiee languages. I don't think it's worth the time and effort of the developers to add, for example, a race that *cannot communicate with anyone outside of their own race,* effectively a mute character unless this is a very Wookiee-heavy game. Replayability: *replaces all dialogue options with grunting which only 1% of the population can understand*

 

Other races are less restrictive than the wacky Wookiees, but if you're looking for re-roleplaying ability, wouldn't you expect pretty much *everyone* in the game to respond differently to an Ewok than to a human, or whatever? Eh.

[triCritical]

I'd rather see more focus spent on the character's skills & stats & style and how that all affects the game than on a few different things depending on if your whole body is covered in fur or not.

Well in a good CRPG, like Arcanum, the race would have drastic effects on the game. For instance, just about everyone will treat you differently and quest can be solved differently.

[triCritical]

Wookiees can't, afaik, even speak non-Wookiee languages. I don't think it's worth the time and effort of the developers to add, for example, a race that *cannot communicate with anyone outside of their own race,* effectively a mute character unless this is a very Wookiee-heavy game. Replayability: *replaces all dialogue options with grunting which only 1% of the population can understand*

Have you played FO2????

 

A game made in 10 months, with a lot of the same crew working for Obsidian.

[Gorth]

I want to be a Hutt

 

Gorth the Hutt, Evil Crimelord, member of the Exchange. B)

[Aurora]

Well in a good CRPG, like Arcanum, the race would have drastic effects on the game.

[triCritical]

What in particular are you talking about? The "retarded" dialogue options? Even *that* is different than writing four (there should be *at least* that many races to choose from) sets of dialogue for each on both the sides of the player and the NPCs. And again, if it follows the tradition of the first KOTOR and everything is voice-acted... yikes.

The player can only speak english. While other aliens have what they say written in plain english. Unless KotOR does voice overs, why would they have to do anything different for other races? As for wookies, they are the retards...

 

Drastic? Different responses like "Oh, I see that you are an Ewok. I despise the little Ewoks. Go talk to someone who does not despise Ewoks, you Ewok, you"?

 

While this is an oversimplification, I would still prefer this kind of thing, since it adds atmosphere.

 

BTW, if you don't like choices, then why play a CRPG?

 

I want to be a Hutt

 

My Yoda will kick you're hutt's ass.

[Aurora]

The player can only speak english.  While other aliens have what they say written in plain english.  Unless KotOR does voice overs, why would they have to do anything different for other races?  As for wookies, they are the retards...

 

What?

 

And Wookiees would be way beyond FO's "retarded" since they can't even communicate with *anyone* who doesn't speak Wookiee or Wookeese or whatever. They can basically point and grunt.

 

While this is an oversimplification, I would still prefer this kind of thing, since it adds atmosphere.

 

That's fine.

 

BTW, if you don't like choices, then why play a CRPG?

 

In slow-motion, she blinks, unable to dechiper this strange, strange language.

 

Wait, of course! It's all clear now! Choices, these choices, I despise choices! Everything suddenly makes sense!

 

Or, huh? Choices are great. I like choices. That's what I'm talking about. Making choices. Great. Glad we agree.

[triCritical]

In slow-motion, she blinks, unable to dechiper this strange, strange language.

 

Wait, of course! It's all clear now! Choices, these choices, I despise choices! Everything suddenly makes sense!

 

Or, huh? Choices are great. I like choices. That's what I'm talking about. Making choices. Great. Glad we agree.

Its hard to have choices when the game offers very little in options. I am not trying to play semantics here, but I equate choices to options and you did say this.

 

You feel that it was a good game and offered multiple options, I do not.

 

If you don't have choices/options and the combat engine sucks, then IMO the CRPG normally is not very good.

 

What?

 

And Wookiees would be way beyond FO's "retarded" since they can't even communicate with *anyone* who doesn't speak Wookiee or Wookeese or whatever. They can basically point and grunt.

 

Its called suspension of disbelief, break a rule, or two. God knows Bioware, has never done this. I don't remember seeing a PDA's in the star wars universe, the game had plenty of those.

[kumquatq3]

Though, I'd really be happier of they'd shoot for the moon and give us some non-jedi options.

Honestly, if its early enough in development maybe they can change this. I am hoping that Obsidian breaks away from their bhaalspawn/master jedi formula, which you're character secretly is.

is it? Because if the story is already set, and you can't already be a non-jedi, then you have to rework a whole lot to change the story if it is jedi based.

 

Besides, the magazine did already say you start off as a exhiled Jedi.

[triCritical]

Besides, the magazine did already say you start off as a exhiled Jedi.

Does this mean you don't have to mess around with the non-jedi classes? I guess this would be better then starting off a non-jedi and later being forced to be a jedi. I have not read the article, and have not followed the development, I am just excited at the potential for a good CRPG, which was not a tactical combat game.

[Aurora]

If you don't have choices/options and the combat engine sucks, then IMO the CRPG normally is not very good.

 

So do you feel that a game with crappy to moderate dialogue but many dialogue *options* is better than a game with slightly less dialogue options but more well-written dialogue?

 

*All* I'm saying here is that I'd prefer a well-written game with *multiple* choices (enough to replay, yes, I *never* said that I don't want choices) over a poorly written game with zillions of choices. If Obsidian can produce a brilliantly-written game with zillions of choices, that's great, but writing good story and dialogue takes time. Providing multiple options and non-linearity takes time. To me, it doesn't matter how replayable a game is if it isn't playable in the first place. I want the game to focus on quality over quantity, if it comes down to that. I'd prefer time to be spent on things like NPCs recognizing the skills and talents and statistics and gender of the PC, rather than popping out with the occasional "you are large and smelly, you Wookiee you."

 

Of course, I'm sure that whatever Obsidian pops out will be terrifically playable and replayable, since they're all cool and awesome even if they won't hire me for QA.

 

Its called suspension of disbelief, break a rule, or two.  God knows Bioware, has never done this.  I don't remember seeing a PDA's in the star wars universe, the game had plenty of those.

 

I can suspend plenty of disbelief. I'm just wondering if you and others would be able to if the game came out and you didn't have many different options depending on race. I mean, Wookiee-talk is a major part of what makes the Wookiees *different,* what would theoretically make them replayable - but I don't think it's really worth the effort to majorly change the storyline so it fits with a hairy mute giant, or a tentacle-headed sexbomb or a giant unmoving blob, or whatever. But hey.

[Diogo Ribeiro]

I'd rather see more focus spent on the character's skills & stats & style and how that all affects the game than on a few different things depending on if your whole body is covered in fur or not.

Well in a good CRPG, like Arcanum, the race would have drastic effects on the game. For instance, just about everyone will treat you differently and quest can be solved differently.

Er, despite having Arcanum high on my favourites list, the racial differences weren't that drastic in the game. If you played a socially unacceptable race (such as a Half-Orc or Half-Ogre), you still had the chance to beg, grovel or otherwise convince people to look differently at you, sometimes without stats determining their acceptace of you, and to have NPCs give you quests. Remember, if you were socially unacceptable and ugly, but intelligent, you could still get quests.

[triCritical]

I'd rather see more focus spent on the character's skills & stats & style and how that all affects the game than on a few different things depending on if your whole body is covered in fur or not.

Well in a good CRPG, like Arcanum, the race would have drastic effects on the game. For instance, just about everyone will treat you differently and quest can be solved differently.

Er, despite having Arcanum high on my favourites list, the racial differences weren't that drastic in the game. If you played a socially unacceptable race (such as a Half-Orc or Half-Ogre), you still had the chance to beg, grovel or otherwise convince people to look differently at you, sometimes without stats determining their acceptace of you, and to have NPCs give you quests. Remember, if you were socially unacceptable and ugly, but intelligent, you could still get quests.

Not using the word drastic would have been more appropriate.

[triCritical]

So do you feel that a game with crappy to moderate dialogue but many dialogue *options* is better than a game with slightly less dialogue options but more well-written dialogue?

Why, are they mutually exclusive?

 

*All* I'm saying here is that I'd prefer a well-written game with *multiple* choices (enough to replay, yes, I *never* said that I don't want choices) over a poorly written game with zillions of choices. If Obsidian can produce a brilliantly-written game with zillions of choices, that's great, but writing good story and dialogue takes time. Providing multiple options and non-linearity takes time. To me, it doesn't matter how replayable a game is if it isn't playable in the first place. I want the game to focus on quality over quantity, if it comes down to that. I'd prefer time to be spent on things like NPCs recognizing the skills and talents and statistics and gender of the PC, rather than popping out with the occasional "you are large and smelly, you Wookiee you."

 

I am not too concerned about dialogue, for reason I will explain slightly later. And I don't care, which races are playable. It would just be nice to play some other races. I have played Star Wars RPG before, and honestly KotOR did not do it justice. Just look at the Star Wars RPG home page at Wizards, and you'll see that not only is species part of the game, but the KotOR is more watered down then Budweiser. Sue me for wanting the more then the typical tripe known as console CRPG.

 

Anyhow, if there is not enough time to do it right then its a moot point. However, it would have been nice, especially considering how other party members were aliens, so why not you. Honestly, the dialogue wasn't that good. I have never thought Bioware dialogue to be particularly good, whereas even in a less then average game like IWD2, MCA's dialogue on Targos still shines through. My point is that the dialogue without question will be superior to its prequel's dialogue. Hence, why I wasn't to worried about it.

 

Of course, I'm sure that whatever Obsidian pops out will be terrifically playable and replayable, since they're all cool and awesome even if they won't hire me for QA.

 

The publisher does the QA if not mistaken.

 

I can suspend plenty of disbelief. I'm just wondering if you and others would be able to if the game came out and you didn't have many different options depending on race. I mean, Wookiee-talk is a major part of what makes the Wookiees *different,* what would theoretically make them replayable - but I don't think it's really worth the effort to majorly change the storyline so it fits with a hairy mute giant, or a tentacle-headed sexbomb or a giant unmoving blob, or whatever. But hey.

 

There is plenty of stuff already compromised. If they were to make Wookies a playable race, making it so that dialogue, if its analogous to FO2 retard, would be the suspension of disbelief. I mean I am already forced to believe that while I can jump 40 feet in through the air in combat I have very little control over, I cannot jump over a 1 foot curb??? There is more to a game then dialogue.

 

I think a better reason for not having a wookie, is that the only wookie I have ever seen in a star wars movie was a side kick, that they are generally too stupid to be the main role. However, this should not deter Obsidian from considering other races, if it is indeed possible.

[Aurora]

Why, are they mutually exclusive?

 

No. But there are time limits on game creation. If they can have both, great.

 

I don't remember if Wookiees receive stat penalties to int (I think they have penalties to dex and cha) - whether they do or not, the point isn't that they're dumb, it's that they're not physically able to speak other languages and that most of the universe is designed for smaller, less Bigfoot-shaped creatures. They're not the heroes because Americans don't like subtitled films.

 

I am familiar with the Star Wars d20 material (sadly enough). I really didn't think Bioware's handling of it was a problem - in fact, I thought they improved it in some areas where the system was moronic - but sure, there's room for improvement.

 

I've also never had a problem with Bioware's writing (excepting NWN-1), but I think Troika's has generally been terrible. So "good dialogue" is partly due to taste, but, great as you may think some of the writers are, brilliant dialogue doesn't just spill from their fingertips. It still takes time.

 

But, whatever, this is all pretty pointless anyway - I do doubt that they're going to have playable non-humans at all.

 

Publisher does do QA in most cases. Lucasarts won't hire me either 'cause I wouldn't play $40 to get into GDC. ;_;

[Chairchucker]

Since the game title is "Knights of the Old Republic" I think it is safe to assume that you will be a jedi no matter what.

 

 

TripleRRR

No, 'Knights of the Old Republic' is the title of a game that has already been released.

 

The title of the upcoming game, if I recall correctly, is 'The Sith Lords', which the magazine article stated referred to the enemies in the game.