President Obama

[Morgoth]

[Farbautisonn]

Problem with taxing your way out of this is that the structures that are the cause of the deficit wont go away. And if Obama place a burden that is percieved to be "too high" on the "rich bastards" (which he more or less made Romney the figurehead of) they will consider relocation of themselves their fortunes and their companies. Or hire more firce accountants and taxlawyers. In which case you get **** all. Also making the "Romneys" of the US the "big and bad" is a bit contradictory to what the Euros and our flexicurity systems percieve as the "American Dream". Prolly is to alot of americans too. And besides Obama now needs them to firstly create jobs and he needs them to listen to him in Congress. He will need to compromise and compromise doesnt really come easy to Obama. I think alot of people will agree on that. And hen we havent even touched upon the fact that the Romney wing was the "compromising/flipflop" wing. They got a beating. The republicans might not be very willing to compromise either.

 

Also in Europe Obama will cut back on the US involvement in NATO and will likely cut back on military aid / spending (which is jobs), either because he is forced or because its nessesictated by popular demand to the fledgeling democracies in the mid east. Cutting back on US involvement in Nato wont win him many friends in the EU either. Especially now with a profilation of the Syrian conflict lurking around the corner. If he has to cut loose Clinton he will have lost a near invaluable forigen secretary too.

 

Plus... If Iran gets nukes in the next four years, which I and a few other analysts percieve as highly likely, that generates a whole new ballgame that has both economical and political ramafications up the kazoo. If a Euro nation decideds to cut loose from the Euro (which I also percieve as highly likely) then that will generate a cascade of problems for the Eurozone, which will also have economic fallout in the US.

 

In short, Obama has a metric ton of proving himself to do and only four years to do it. And things really have to roll his way (no more hurricane expenditures or natural disasters of any epic sort, even if they do generate jobs, they do cripple the economy locally).

 

As for poking fun of romney being unimployed... the guy is a multi millionaire in dollers and an exgovernor. He isnt going to be unimployed long. Though he will likely need a vacation... hopefully in Vegas where he can spend some money at Wynn or Trumps places... after all, vegas did take a hit after Obama was a bit... oversimplyfying for vacations and conferances to vegas.

[Amentep]

It's less "knowing how to handle it" and more "having the infrastructure to handle it." All the knowhow in the world won't help you if you don't own any snowplows. And snow in the Southeast is infrequent enough that a heavy investment in snowplows, etc., probably isn't a particularly wise use of public funds. Cheaper to just let things shut down in the rare event of a meaningful snowstorm.

 

This is true to an extent. But a couple centimeters of snow doesn't really need plowing and I've seen some southern places still hole up and wait for it to pass. Now admittedly, I use "all season" tires, so maybe there's something about the tires in those southern places, but I do chuckle when light snow chokes out some towns.

 

If you don't drive in ice very often, you're more likely to be a danger to yourself and others. Even when its a case of a couple of centimeters its usually easier to wait it out.

 

That said I enjoyed the snow two Januarys ago - shut down the entire city for two weeks!

[Volourn]

"Canada has its own unique culture, but it still has its roots in Europe, much like the USA. Canada has has very same unwritten constitution of the UK, and also has its own system of governance modeled directly after the UK. Canada also gives is allegiance to the queen. "

 

None of that is culture. Liek you said, those are our roots. Not our culture. We also have our roots in NA with our rather large Indian population.

 

'Unwritten constitution'. LMAO

 

I piss on the Queen and so do many Kanadians. Can't wait til the day we can metaporphically chop off the Queen's head. She and her stupid GG are a blight on our otherwise free nation.

 

You still haven't proven our cultture is the same as yours or more importantly that we got our culture from you. L0L

[Farbautisonn]

None of that is culture. Liek you said, those are our roots. Not our culture. We also have our roots in NA with our rather large Indian population.

Really? How many Native american customs and traditions, sociocultural and economic structures do you retain?

 

You still haven't proven our cultture is the same as yours or more importantly that we got our culture from you. L0L

I dont really see the "lol" part... but Ill humour you.

 

Your entire heritage, social structure (family, language(s), religion, culture, traditions of learning and living etc) is derived from European tradition. Not from native americans living in teepees or living in Igloos. Your culture isnt Identical to the European tradition either, but then European culture is vastly differentiated from north to south. Even in an area with a cultural and sociological tradition as close as that of scandinavia, traditions differ quite significantly in certain aspects.

[obyknven]

[Volourn]

"Your entire heritage, social structure (family, language(s), religion, culture, traditions of learning and living etc) is derived from European tradition. Not from native americans living in teepees or living in Igloos. Your culture isnt Identical to the European tradition either, but then European culture is vastly differentiated from north to south. Even in an area with a cultural and sociological tradition as close as that of scandinavia, traditions differ quite significantly in certain aspects"

 

Spamming your ignorance of Kanadian culture doesn't make it fact. NMEWSFALSh; Our culture is our own. Now, keep your culture of conquering nations to yourself, startingw orld wars, and kissing royal butt to yourself. Thanks

 

But, hey, Kanada is into European 'culture' we call soccer soccer and REAL football football just like our Amerikan friends. Take that Euro 'culture'!

 

 

 

"Really? How many Native american customs and traditions, sociocultural and economic structures do you retain?"

 

Considering Indians (lol native lol stupid PC talk lo) are a sizeable % of our percentage quite more than the vast majority of European junk (see above). Not to mention, I'm part Indian (mostly French by blood thoguh I don't speak that gibberish), more than the vast majority of Euopean silliness.

Edited November 8, 2012 by Volourn

[Farbautisonn]

"Your entire heritage, social structure (family, language(s), religion, culture, traditions of learning and living etc) is derived from European tradition. Not from native americans living in teepees or living in Igloos. Your culture isnt Identical to the European tradition either, but then European culture is vastly differentiated from north to south. Even in an area with a cultural and sociological tradition as close as that of scandinavia, traditions differ quite significantly in certain aspects"

 

Spamming your ignorance of Kanadian culture doesn't make it fact. NMEWSFALSh; Our culture is our own. Now, keep your culture of conquering nations to yourself, startingw orld wars, and kissing royal butt to yourself. Thanks

 

But, hey, Kanada is into European 'culture' we call soccer soccer and REAL football football just like our Amerikan friends. Take that Euro 'culture'!

 

Your ignorance is as staggering as your inability to type or write coherent english. No mean feat considering you're supposedly speaking your "own" language...

[Enoch]

Problem with taxing your way out of this is that the structures that are the cause of the deficit wont go away. And if Obama place a burden that is percieved to be "too high" on the "rich bastards" (which he more or less made Romney the figurehead of) they will consider relocation of themselves their fortunes and their companies. Or hire more firce accountants and taxlawyers. In which case you get **** all. Also making the "Romneys" of the US the "big and bad" is a bit contradictory to what the Euros and our flexicurity systems percieve as the "American Dream". Prolly is to alot of americans too. And besides Obama now needs them to firstly create jobs and he needs them to listen to him in Congress. He will need to compromise and compromise doesnt really come easy to Obama. I think alot of people will agree on that. And hen we havent even touched upon the fact that the Romney wing was the "compromising/flipflop" wing. They got a beating. The republicans might not be very willing to compromise either.

 

The House Majority Leader has already signaled that he would be open to compromising on some taxation issues. It's not clear the degree to which his caucus will support him, but it's a start. Ultimately, given the structure of the "fiscal cliff" scenario (a terrible metaphor, BTW), House Republicans are going to have to decide whether they'd rather vote for a relatively small tax increase, or have a relatively large tax increase take effect automatically because they voted against compromise.

 

As to the "you can't tax the rich because they'll just avoid it" line of thinking, you're describing 2nd- and 3rd-order effects that might have an offsetting impact on the 1st-order effect of higher tax rates (i.e., more revenue). They'll probably happen to some degree, but it's pretty outlandish to suggest that they'll be anywhere close to sufficient to overwhelm the primary effect. We're not talking about increases to confiscatory levels here-- the suggestions on the table even fall short of a return to tax rates and policies that were in force as recently as the 1990s. Anybody who hasn't already fled to tax havens probably isn't going to be pushed over the edge by that kind of change.

 

 

(By the way, arguing with Volourn is pointless. He'll just keep going until you collapse from exhaustion and befuddlement. R00fles!)

Edited November 8, 2012 by Enoch

[Volourn]

"Your ignorance is as staggering as your inability to type or write coherent english. No mean feat considering you're supposedly speaking your "own" language..."

 

oOOO.. More European butthurt mad that us little non Europeans aren't begging for your scraps any more,.

[alanschu]

Your entire heritage, social structure (family, language(s), religion, culture, traditions of learning and living etc) is derived from European tradition. Not from native americans living in teepees or living in Igloos.

 

Ah, but obviously there's some influence since I instinctively refer to them as tipis! (I'm being silly)

 

The United States was pushed forward with a lot of British and French settlers, just like Canada. I think innately, due to the fact that the US had an armed revolution (and those that weren't so keen on rebelling against the King so much had the option to not stick around) and Canada didn't does lend itself to some level of fundamental difference in mentalities passed down to today, however.

 

So yes, there's a lot of overlap, but if you were to ask me which country I more strongly identify with it's definitely Canada, not the United States. And I am even from Alberta, another place often coined the "51st state."

[Farbautisonn]

 

The House Majority Leader has already signaled that he would be open to compromising on some taxation issues. It's not clear the degree to which his caucus will support him, but it's a start.

Well, I do hope you are right. However its by no means a given. The republicans do have to stay true to some ideals and have to fight for their own policy. They have to fight for the people who voted them into office.

 

Ultimately, given the structure of the "fiscal cliff" scenario (a terrible metaphor, BTW), House Republicans are going to have to decide whether they'd rather vote for a relatively small tax increase, or have a relatively large tax increase take effect automatically because they voted against compromise.

Its not just the fiscal cliff. Obama has to address that, yes, but he also has to both generate jobs, and encourage business oppertunities and possibilities as well as address a huge fiscal deficit. He has to do everything at once, whilst having promised his electorate things he might not be able to achieve and almost certainly not to the degree he has promised. Its not an easy task, and it wouldnt be, even if he had both houses in Congress. If he ends up dissapointing his own electorate, both his place in history and the next election might be compromised. After all, while he did win, it wasnt by a huge demographic vote (and yes I know the "winner takes all system )

 

As to the "you can't tax the rich because they'll just avoid it" line of thinking, you're describing 2nd- and 3rd-order effects that might have an offsetting impact on the 1st-order effect of higher tax rates (i.e., more revenue). They'll probably happen to some degree, but it's pretty outlandish to suggest that they'll be anywhere close to sufficient to overwhelm the primary effect.

I'd be a bit cautious to be as sure as you are. Sure Obama wouldnt ever impose Hollande esque punitive taxes of 75% for the very highest earners, but alot less will generate considerable resentment amongst the people who now hold the venture capital and the ability to generate jobs. They only need to leave their money with their investment bankers and accountants to ensure that Obama will have a very hard time of generating the promised level of employment. He will need to take their advice seriously. And most of them are not people who voted for the guy. Some of them really... really dislike him.

 

We're not talking about increases to confiscatory levels here-- the suggestions on the table even fall short of a return to tax rates and policies that were in force as recently as the 1990s. Anybody who hasn't already fled to tax havens probably isn't going to be pushed over the edge by that kind of change.

Again, thats completely true. However the definition of "confiscatory level" is one that is highly subjective. For some of the people who voted republican, that definition will be reached alot sooner than most might think. A five percent hike for a company that makes hundreds of thousands might not be "punitive". But for a company that makes billions and has a product that isnt subjective to the absolute need of being situated stateside, alot of production could be outsourced to nations where even a couple of percent could make all the difference for shareholders and owners. Especially if its producing labour intensive products. Obama does have to factor in both the gain and the loss of revenue, and workplaces. He cannot focus solely on the tax revenue. Its not a magic wand.

 

(By the way, arguing with Volourn is pointless. He'll just keep going until you collapse from exhaustion and befuddlement. R00fles!)

I realize that. However the guy does amuse me in the "what the **** is wrong with you" sense. Thanks for the heads up, nevertheless.

[Hurlshort]

Actually it bothers me tremendously how many extremely rich people are speaking disrespectfully towards the office of the president. It is unpatriotic and childish. The idea that they would purposefully hold back on hiring and growth is basically cutting off the nose to spite the face.

[Meshugger]

Volourn is right even when he's wrong. Remember that, and your blood pressure will go back to normal.

 

I do not see any significant change in the horizon with the Obama administration in terms of policy though. As long as they have this unhealthy open door relationship with the banks, nothing major will happen.

Edited November 8, 2012 by Meshugger

[Farbautisonn]

Actually it bothers me tremendously how many extremely rich people are speaking disrespectfully towards the office of the president. It is unpatriotic and childish. The idea that they would purposefully hold back on hiring and growth is basically cutting off the nose to spite the face.

 

If Im a high end businessman Ill do charity where I get the most bang for the buck. Inflating my workers wages artificially isnt going to be percieved as a good nor smart thing. Patriotism has little place in a global economy. It doesnt pay the rent or dividends to my shareholders. It doesnt buy my Vegas Shopping Spree or the Turkey handouts for thanksgiving either.

[Blodhemn]

Maybe the government should stop inflating the dollar to it's death and the lower end earners would have some sort of buying power. The poor is paying for this sheit, yet the party who supposedly cares for the poor more are running them into the dirt.

[mkreku]

Late to the party, I know, but..

 

Congratulations, USA, I believe you made the right choice. Although the grave your former presidents have dug for you is probably too deep for any president to climb out of..

 

I, FOR ONE, WELCOME OUR NEW CHINESE OVERLORDS

[GuybrushWilco]

Just to end some confusion, I am American, not British. The USA and Canada (and pretty much every country in the Americas) are very young countries, that were formed initially from colonies of very old countries. Of course we have our own unique identity and culture that has evolved from the traditions relating to native populations and from our own developments and innovations over the years, but to say that that we don't have cultural similarities with Europe, is pretty off. Canada for instance was formed directly from former British and French colonies, and there was a time in that region, many years ago, where most people of what is now Canada considered themselves to be British or French, before developing a Canadian identity. The fact that our systems of governance are directly inspired by improved forms of what existed in Britain, or from the ideas of European philosophers, has had a direct impact on the way our own cultures have developed after becoming independent countries.

[Volourn]

"we don't have cultural similarities with Europe"

 

Nobody has claimed that we have NO simialrities. But, it's not as deep as the arrogant Europeans think they are.

[GuybrushWilco]

Late to the party, I know, but..

 

Congratulations, USA, I believe you made the right choice. Although the grave your former presidents have dug for you is probably too deep for any president to climb out of..

 

I, FOR ONE, WELCOME OUR NEW CHINESE OVERLORDS

 

Noone can deny the rise of China as a new major power, but the 'overlord' status is always a big exaggerated I think. For instance, most of the debt that the US has, is internal debt that we owe to ourselves, and while China is the largest holder of our external debt, it is still a small amount of our overall debt. Try taking a lot, for instance, at how much debt is owed to the USA by many European countries, and yet noone is casting us as their overlord .

[Blodhemn]

Late to the party, I know, but..

 

Congratulations, USA, I believe you made the right choice. Although the grave your former presidents have dug for you is probably too deep for any president to climb out of..

 

I, FOR ONE, WELCOME OUR NEW CHINESE OVERLORDS

What I want to know is why do people think Obama would be any better for the economy no matter the circumstances, when all he's done is follow in Bush's footsteps.

[Humodour]

I think Obama is probably VERY happy about the fiscal cliff, and will do everything he can to make sure that no compromise is reached.

 

And here is why:

 

 

 

The fiscal cliff will cancel the Bush era tax cuts and cut defense spending. Which is excellent since Bush's tax cuts and the USA's defence spending account for the majority of the USA's debt growth.

 

Some progressive policies will take the axe. And I imagine that the Democrats will re-institute the truly important ones at their next convenience.

Edited November 9, 2012 by Krezack

[Blodhemn]

Lol@calling them Bush era tax cuts when Obama already reinstated them. As well as the war machine, yes there will be cuts but the military is still going to be huge under Obama. Quit dreaming.

[Humodour]

Late to the party, I know, but..

 

Congratulations, USA, I believe you made the right choice. Although the grave your former presidents have dug for you is probably too deep for any president to climb out of..

 

I, FOR ONE, WELCOME OUR NEW CHINESE OVERLORDS

What I want to know is why do people think Obama would be any better for the economy no matter the circumstances, when all he's done is follow in Bush's footsteps.

 

Rubbish. Ever taken a look at the performance of the US stock markets under Obama and compared them to Bush?

 

Turns out that Democratic presidents are better with the economy than recent Republican ones have been. We're talking Bush Senior, Clinton, Bush Junior and Obama here.

 

Reference: http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2012/Pres/Maps/Oct24.html#item-8

 

Edited November 9, 2012 by Krezack

[Humodour]

Quit dreaming.

 

Hey, that sounds like what Mitt Romney said to your Hispanic population!