I'd like to hear opinions. But not reveal my own right away.

Edited September 19, 201213 yr by Jarmo

I don't REALLY care that much either way, but it is getting overused. It'd be interesting if they did something where there's just an "animate" ability that creates different types of critters depending on where it gets used. Use it on trees, you get a walking tree. Use it on a statue, you get a golem. Use it on corpses, you get "undead".

 

Ghosts, wraiths, liches, vampires . . . whatever. Let's see some creativity.

I want to see non-evil undead. I'd like to see a society where necromancy is accepted and used for the good of the entire nation. Mindless undead like zombies and skeletons can be used to perform menial labor. People can pay off their debts by allowing necromancers to raise them as undead after their deaths. Skilled and educated people could choose to be raised as undead so that they can continue to serve their nation after death. People allow themselves to be fed upon by vampires in exchange for ancient knowledge and wisdom or for apprenticeships.

There's so many different varieties of undead (vampires, ghosts, zombies, etc.) that I think Obsidian has plenty of material to work with if they decide to include undead in the game (which I expect they will since they're nearly ubiquitous in SF&F at this point).

 

That said, I hope that if they do include undead there's more consequence to them than stacks of XP to slaughter. Vampires should be extraordinarily dangerous adversaries, ghosts shouldn't be dispersed with a wave of a sword, and zombies, if they show up, should actually be threatening. So I voted for "yes, but they should be horrifying." Because really, isn't that the entire point?

I am sick of mindless undead staggering around, sometimes headless and falling apart. Ghost I don't mind but haven't met as man of those. Lich can be interesting. Vampires are overdone especially idiot ones who actually have no vampire skills, strengths.

Skellies + Tomb = MUST :D

They are used a lot but they can add to the game a lot. Since souls have to do with magic maybe they can have sould magic be connected to how undead is created here.

 

 

"I want to see non-evil undead. I'd like to see a society where necromancy is accepted and used for the good of the entire nation. Mindless undead like zombies and skeletons can be used to perform menial labor. People can pay off their debts by allowing necromancers to raise them as undead after their deaths. Skilled and educated people could choose to be raised as undead so that they can continue to serve their nation after death. People allow themselves to be fed upon by vampires in exchange for ancient knowledge and wisdom or for apprenticeships."

 

Non evil undead is not original. 'White' necromancy also isn't new.

Zombie/vampires have been a bit done to death recently (or undeath). Having a massive number of slowly shambling creatures can make for an interesting scenario but in a fantasy realm any number of other species could do that. Suits of armor, automatons, slimes, fungus/tree creatures, tentacles/vines/giant worms/snakes sprouting from the ground around you. Maybe even a more interesting "thrall" scenario where you are aware that all the mind controlled creatures/townsfolk will snap to their senses once a central monster/cause is dealt with and so shouldn't be harmed.

They are used a lot but they can add to the game a lot. Since souls have to do with magic maybe they can have sould magic be connected to how undead is created here.

 

 

"I want to see non-evil undead. I'd like to see a society where necromancy is accepted and used for the good of the entire nation. Mindless undead like zombies and skeletons can be used to perform menial labor. People can pay off their debts by allowing necromancers to raise them as undead after their deaths. Skilled and educated people could choose to be raised as undead so that they can continue to serve their nation after death. People allow themselves to be fed upon by vampires in exchange for ancient knowledge and wisdom or for apprenticeships."

 

Non evil undead is not original. 'White' necromancy also isn't new.

 

Where did I say that it was original? I said that I want to see non-evil undead and necromancy.

Non evil undead is not original. 'White' necromancy also isn't new.

 

Depends on how you define "original." If you mean "never done before" than, yes, you are correct. Non-evil undead and good necromancers aren't terribly original. But then, almost nothing under the sun is.

 

If you mean "not very common" or "not mainstream," which is what I'm guessing the poster was going for (and is what people often really mean when they say "original"), then there's an argument to be made that those concepts are indeed original. The main exception to evil undead tends to be vampires, who often get the angst treatment very frequently (for better or worse). But aside from Planescape: Torment and World of WarCraft I'm not sure I can actually think of an example featuring "good" or even clearly nonevil zombies.

 

EDIT: In retrospect it appears I may not have been reading carefully enough; the poster you were quoting didn't even use the term "original," so my semantic argument is moot, though not particularly pointless I think, since it still highlights why the poster may have requested the concept.

Edited September 19, 201213 yr by Nivenus

Non evil undead is not original. 'White' necromancy also isn't new.

 

Depends on how you define "original." If you mean "never done before" than, yes, you are correct. Non-evil undead and good necromancers aren't terribly original. But then, almost nothing under the sun is.

 

If you mean "not very common" or "not mainstream," which is what I'm guessing the poster was going for (and is what people often really mean when they say "original"), then there's an argument to be made that those concepts are indeed original. The main exception to evil undead tends to be vampires, who often get the angst treatment very frequently (for better or worse). But aside from Planescape: Torment and World of WarCraft I'm not sure I can actually think of an example featuring "good" or even clearly nonevil zombies.

 

There's non-evil undead in the Might and Magic franchise.

I will always have a soft spot for zombies. So Obs can include them.

 

Vampires, if used sparingly and as high level foes and aren't mindless are fine.

 

Like everything it's how they are implemented and if they make sense in the world. If they are only as deadly as a bandit/Merc/Dire wolf something is lost IMO.

Edited September 19, 201213 yr by Bos_hybrid

Choice 2.

 

Unless you're making an actual undead/zombie horror game, the undead should be left in the graveyards and tombs. Or as spelled summons.

 

There's non-evil undead in the Might and Magic franchise.

 

I'll admit to being unfamiliar with that franchise, although I know of it.

I feel like any type of encounter, whether it be combat or not, have some point to it. A bunch of wandering zombies in the forest that are just 'there'? I don't really want to see that. Having the undead involved in a storyline though? A good one? Even a side story, so to speak? I'm for that, as well as any sort of creature, for any reason, combat or otherwise, as well as it's well handled and thought provoking.

 

I've never been much for the MMO style monsters just wandering around in a field stuff though. Things need to have purpose. In short, if they're there, "Why are they there?"

There's non-evil undead in the Might and Magic franchise.

 

I'll admit to being unfamiliar with that franchise, although I know of it.

 

It's a very old RPG franchise that began in the 80's close to the same time as games like Bard's Tale, Wizardry, Ultima, and Pool of Radiance. Later, it spawned a turn based strategy series called Heroes of Might and Magic.

 

Although it follows a lot of generic fantasy cliches/tropes, it has some very weird, interesting, and rare, but not necessarily unique, ideas.

Undead are a frightful sight and should so remain. I understand that most of us are seasoned RPG players and when we see a skeleton or a zombie animated by necromancy we say something like "Let's bash some skulls" or something like that. But really... If we ourselves saw a walking corpse in reality, I believe our first reaction would be to run the heck away and hide somewhere far-far away, because a walking dead corpse that is approaching you (be it zombie or skeleton or any other type) is actually terrifying and dreadful. So my take on this - make 'em rare, make 'em scary. Let them be something of a nemesis for those brave or stupid enough to venture into cursed crypts and ancient graveyards. Make them tough and challenging enemies no matter how strong our character/party is. Most games feature undead as cannon fodder, well, I'd like to see a difference for a change and meet something that will scare the hell out of me and make me reluctant to even send my PC + companions into crypts unless I really feel bold beyond any common sense.

Free ... my ... people ... Astrolabe ... whirls ... twirls

Undead are fine, but they should be rare and lethally dangerous. Not some other kind of common cannon fodder to throw at the player when the DM runs out of rats. Once again I must bring up Demon's Souls and Dark Souls as games that did undead rather well. In Demon's Souls skeletons were very dangerous enemies. They charge at you and maul you relentlessly. New players would always learn to be afraid of them because of the challenge they impose. Most enemies up until that point were rather sluggish zombie-like beings while skeletons were fast, agile and could knock your shield arm away with a single blow, leaving you completely open to punishment.

Dark Souls did ghosts very well. They could fly and pass through walls. Their wails and screams were chilling and sent shivers down your spine. An encounter with the undead is supposed to be something horrifyingly unnatural and spooky. Creating an actual feel of horror can be a challenge, but making the enemies tough encounters certainly helps.

 

Undead are a frightful sight and should so remain. I understand that most of us are seasoned RPG players and when we see a skeleton or a zombie animated by necromancy we say something like "Let's bash some skulls" or something like that. But really... If we ourselves saw a walking corpse in reality, I believe our first reaction would be to run the heck away and hide somewhere far-far away, because a walking dead corpse that is approaching you (be it zombie or skeleton or any other type) is actually terrifying and dreadful. So my take on this - make 'em rare, make 'em scary. Let them be something of a nemesis for those brave or stupid enough to venture into cursed crypts and ancient graveyards. Make them tough and challenging enemies no matter how strong our character/party is. Most games feature undead as cannon fodder, well, I'd like to see a difference for a change and meet something that will scare the hell out of me and make me reluctant to even send my PC + companions into crypts unless I really feel bold beyond any common sense.

 

Pretty much my sentiment exactly.

Ok, I'm sick and tired of them myself.

 

Mostly because they're everywhere, there seems to be at least a zombie version/mod of every damn game.

Seems such a cheap and obvious way of doing things. I'd like to, for once, see a graveyard where dead are laying nicely in the coffins.*

 

1:st level "can you clear my cellar of rats, they're pretty big uns around here"

5:th level "oh dear, the local tomb seems to be filled with undead again, could you clear it up thank you".

 

But it seems I'm in a very minor minority, so better just tackle them as they come and not wail in fake martyrdom.

 

--

and the example is pretty well exaggerated, not suggesting that's what people wanting undead actually want.

 

*well ok, there were graveyards like that in BGs and Fallouts

My first reaction was no, but then I came to think of how they did undeads in Planescape:Torment, and then I thought, why not

I want to see non-evil undead. I'd like to see a society where necromancy is accepted and used for the good of the entire nation. Mindless undead like zombies and skeletons can be used to perform menial labor. People can pay off their debts by allowing necromancers to raise them as undead after their deaths. Skilled and educated people could choose to be raised as undead so that they can continue to serve their nation after death. People allow themselves to be fed upon by vampires in exchange for ancient knowledge and wisdom or for apprenticeships.

 

Hehe, the first part sounds pretty familiar, haven't been talking to the Dusties have you?

Edited September 19, 201213 yr by HansKrSG

A few occasions where the player meets undead creatures and the scene would provoke "Oh the horror!" feeling, yes please. I would like to see undead as very hard opponents(or very powerful allies!), with a "How do you kill that which has no life?" feel to them.

Only if they are well done I'm bored to death (lol) of zombies and vampires.

 

Bohdi was kind of cool.

Why not, as long as they fit into the setting and are not overused. It's hard to avoid cliche with these things, but a couple of darker questlines involving undead would be nice. I remember I really loved the haunted forest and Charwood Village in NWN 1.