Photorealism vs Stylisation

[Tauron]

The little I have seen looks pretty good to me. Who ever painted that dwarf ranger did great job and I hope that will be generall tone of the art. So far what little has been shown is tthat its nor warcraft and anime uber stylised and it isnt exactly photorealistic. I would call it belivable, proportionate, semi realistic. Semi being their own artistic touch. I just hope they will not be making ubersized shoulder pads and large exo-skeleton armors. I would rather like to see some pretty textures and stylised armor inspired by genuine medival ages than warhammerish/starcraft tank walking characters.

[descalabro]

I think the graphic look used in BG2, IWD2 or PST would be fine. It was all marvelously drawn and colorized for a very rich and textured feel, but it didn't feel like a photo, it felt like a very detailed adventure book so I think this is the best approach, even if this were to be a Sci-Fi themed cRPG.

 

Now, this doesn't mean all should be as still as it was back then. I like my old cRPG's to look like a beautiful water-paint but not to feel like one; even back then I missed some more animated elements, some vehicles, some really big creatures, sea waves, and a not so static nature in general. They talked about this during development of BG2 but I saw just a few of these elements at the city of Amn. With IWD2 we had a bit more of those animated elements, but still they were ocasional.

 

To be completely honest, I think Project Eternity should be set in a Sci-Fi environment, because the market is over-flooded with Dark-Ages' style RPGs while there is A LOT to explore in an isometric Sci-Fi environment both visually and gameplay-wise.

 

But I understand a setting like this would be too much of a risk to get the funds for.

[Crosmando]

I always thought Temple of EE was quite modern and "stylish" in it's portrayal of D&D, if you look at the portraits and all. Especially compared with the eccentric and oh-so-90's Baldur's Gate portraits.

[metiman]

Stylization is fine as long as it doesn't look cartoonish. Some of the example images posted here were a bit cartoonish. Others were just highly detailed, beautiful, and imaginitive (that beautiful deviant art page) Good art direction and photorealism are not mutually exclusive. In any case are any of you really expecting photorealism on this project? Photorealism is expensive. So forget it. Obsidian has never done a cartoonish looking game. I don't see any reason to believe they are planning to start now.

[dan107]

I say as close to photorealism as possible, with plenty of variety in locations. DA2 certainly had a style but it was probably one of the most boring games visually that I've ever played. Everything just looked too similar. Even the areas that were supposed to be different, i.e. city vs. wilderness, ended up having the same claustrophobic angular look to them. Compare that to The Witcher 2 which wasn't particularly stylized but is hands down the best looking RPG ever made and really makes you feel like you're walking through a living, breathing world.

Edited September 18, 2012 by dan107

[kenup]

A good recent example would probably be the two Dragon Age games. Dragon Age: Origins was a great game, but it looked horrible, because they'd gone for a realistic-as-possible look with an engine that just wasn't up to the task (although I personally think that even on an engine that is up to the task, photorealism doesn't look very good). Dragon Age 2, a considerably inferior sequel, looked much better because they'd gone for a far more stylised - almost cartoony - look. Especially for the character models. In fact, I personally think they should have taken it a few steps further down the stylisation road.

 

You obviously didn't notice the horrible changes to DAO characters. Flemeth, the dragon diguised as frail old woman changed into a MILF-wannabe is the most prominent example. Though it is a completely change style with her, it's still alienating and as I said still doesn't succeed in being sexy. Then there is a Morrigan face in the DA2 files, that thankfully never makes it in game, and makes you think she got quite a few pounds after DAO. And the Elven fish aren't better.

[LordCrash]

Witcher 2 is one of the best looking RPGs ever, no question. But it's not isometric and that's quite the point here.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I might always choose a realist art style over any possible option. I loathed DA2's art direction - DAO's was superior.

 

That said, I don't think the comparison is particularly relevant given Eternity's locked isometric camera. If we look at those isometric games mentioned in the Kickstarter pitch, BG, IWD, ToEE, and Fallout all had art that tended toward the realist. Only PST leaned more toward the fantastical, and even then I wouldn't say it approached DA2 levels.

 

Honestly, anything within that range would be fine. I would favour IWD or ToEE as targets, but they were all excellent.

[Umberlin]

The Aesthetic I miss seeing in games, or at least the portraits of older games, isn't realistic, necessarily, but I'm not sure the image people think of when some say 'stylized' is right either. Those old fantasy artists and paintings you used to see for Dragonlance, Conan, Ravenloft, AD&D and in many other places are what I miss. The Icewind Dale portaits and BG1/2 portraits are a great example and I'd love to see a game done in those styles visually even outside of portraits.

 

 

I'm not sure this is the game for it, but, that is something I'd love to see that old Dragonlance painting come to life in a game that looked like one of those painting. Probably little more than a pipe dream on my part. Artists like Victoria Frances, with art styles as seen in my own Avatar are also terribly beautiful to my eye.

Edited September 19, 2012 by Umberlin

[Shevek]

I hope they go for a more stylized look. This does not mean WoW graphics or some such. However, it would be nice if they went for the look of those classic Dragonlance or whatever covers - sorta like a drawn/painted style. That sorta gritty high fantasy stuff would be awesome (minus the steel bkinis, those were silly).

[SirthOsiris]

I'd have to agree with Umberlin, though sadly I have little to no experience with the art style. It felt like it was part of my subculture, but I didn't have anyone around to develop that interest enough. But I always liked it a bit, so I too voice my wish for something akin to Icewind Dale, and that dwarf ranger seems like they're going down that line.

 

Realistic but painted fantasy, I guess. Avoid WoW style, and in a sense Kingdoms of Amalur, please.

[slopesandsam]

Have to completely disagree with the OP. Dragon Age 2 was visually awful. Compare it to the WItcher 2, which launched in the same year.

 

My arguments was more that DA2 was visually better than DA:O, not that it was necessarily visually awesome compared to other games. It was just an example where the developers went for realism the first time around, learned their lesson, and did something more stylised on their second attempt.

[slopesandsam]

Having read through all the posts that were posted overnight, I feel like I need to clarify further:

 

1. I'm not advocating that PE be a cartoon.

 

2. I am advocating that it looks like a cool fantasy painting. However, I do not have a particular artist that I'm pushing. Pretty much all the examples that had been posted to this thread would be awesome looking if translated into a game.

 

3. If the graphics wound up being very stylised, and looking very much like a painting (like, you could actually see the "brushstrokes" on the screen) I would be overjoyed. But I'm aware this isn't everyone's thing.

 

4. A happy medium, I think, is the environment art from Diablo 3. Ignore the character and monster models, those appear to have been done in a different art style. But the trees and leaves and grass and waterfall and cobbles all look gorgeous. (Note: this is not a recommendation for Diablo 3, I thought it was a pretty sucky game - the environment art was pretty much its only redeeming feature.) If PE came out looking like that (preferably with character models that matched the environment art) I would be very happy.

[DYWYPI]

I don't really think that the issue here is quite photorealism versus stylization, but rather that of realism versus caricature. Virtually all modern (Western) RPGs seem to opt for bland, caricature-less design of characters and places - all humans have the same body shape with different faces and possibly minor variations in scaling, most buildings are dull, realistic, functional blocks (and often with reused models, but that's another gripe for another time). Where are all of the hunchbacked crones with crooked noses, fat merchants, buildings set into great trees, that sort of thing? Photorealistically-modeled or otherwise, it doesn't mean a thing if the designs lack personality in the first place. I'm hoping that we'll be seeing similar levels of caricature to those we saw in IE-era areas and character portraits.

Edited September 19, 2012 by DYWYPI

[eimatshya]

Out of all the top-down/isometric RPGs I've played, Icewind Dale and Temple of Elemental Evil have definitely struck me as being the most beautiful. In fact they are in the running for the most beautiful games that I've played from any genre. You would not hear any complaints from me if Project Eternity took after one of the two in terms of art style.

Edited September 19, 2012 by eimatshya

[LadyCrimson]

The problem isn't stylized vs photorealistic. The problem is bad art direction.

And further, the issue that everyone has different tastes in art, or what they think of as artistic/beautiful/awesome...

 

Seriously, I think Icewind Dale is actually the best looking game I've ever played. It doesn't really look photorealistic exactly, but it's headed in that direction. I would love to see more games following this kind of artistic style.

Um. No. It's not.

Not that I don't like it. I do...I like it very much. And I'd agree I'd love to see that type of art/graphic style in games again, more often. But it's not anywhere close to becoming/heading into photorealistic.

Edited September 19, 2012 by LadyCrimson

[fan]

I try to be pragmatic when considering what is possible with a $2mil budget.

 

By far the most appealing option is lots and lots of 2d art, especially pencil sketches. Those looked incredibly good in BG, and a talented artist can churn out half a dozen in an hour. Items, weapons, spells, NPCs and even locations can all have their own mini-portraits. If these visual cues are given, the 3d model should be indistinct enough to allow the inner eye to complete the job.

[Parsifal]

Realism vs. Stylization: generally realisim.

DA2 looks like absolute anime crap.