Do we want elves and dwarves?

[RogueBurger]

This topic made me think of something else that I dislike about most RPGs: 'racism.' Look at the real human race; we have brutes, we have amazing intellectuals, we have thousands of different cultures and religions. Why is every made-up fantasy race so pigeonholed into a specific stereotype? The nice orc, the brutish elf -- these are all rare exceptions in most settings. I'd love to see other races in Project Eternity that are just as wonderfully varied as the human race.

Edited September 16, 2012 by RogueBurger

[Shades]

I would love to see an entirely new fantasy world complete with new and interesting races to go in it. However I think those saying that people are more familiar with/used to the usual fantasy races do have a point. So if we do get the usual elves and dwarves (and as elves are mentioned I'm guessing we will) I hope they will have some great twists and differences from the way elves and dwarves are usually portrayed in fantasy settings.

 

And hey while it starts off with 3 playable races the stretch goals add more don't they? Which indicates that there are indeed more races even if the base three are humans, elves and dwarves.

[LadyCrimson]

I'm beginning to realize just how often "I don't care" about details like these. I just want a solid, fun, immersive rpg with rich dialogue and memorable characters to romp around in.

[NoxNoctum]

Did DA:O really subvert the tropes though? Making them slaves to the humans or whatever isn't that big a change.

 

I like elves personally, but I think Obsidian could come up with a better subverted form of them than that...

 

Really though what matters it the quality of the story and characters themselves.

 

Anyways I trust the devs.

Edited September 16, 2012 by NoxNoctum

[DAWUSS]

Dwarven wizards?

[NoxNoctum]

It would be nice to see the 'traditional' races, but taken more to extremes.

 

Take elves for example: generally tall, lithe, mysterious forest dwellers, often distrusted by humans. Why not expand on that and instead of having them as tall, pretty, magical versions of humans, focus more on the strange and alien aspect of them. Imagine a cross between 'greys' and Slenderman. Tall, terrifiying creatures that live in the forest and are hardly ever seen, but are known from stories to abduct travellers.

 

Dwarves could almost be living stone. Imagine the scene from Aliens where they're walking through the corridors and we see the xenomorphs coming out of the walls, but make the walls stone and the xenomorphs short, rocky humanoids.

 

The races wouldn't necessarily be malevolent, but they also wouldn't necessarily have the same thought processes and morals as humans.

 

Just my $0.02

 

I like this. Even if they don't go in that exact direction that's the kind of variation on a theme I'd like to see.

[Troller]

It would be nice to see the 'traditional' races, but taken more to extremes.

 

Take elves for example: generally tall, lithe, mysterious forest dwellers, often distrusted by humans. Why not expand on that and instead of having them as tall, pretty, magical versions of humans, focus more on the strange and alien aspect of them. Imagine a cross between 'greys' and Slenderman. Tall, terrifiying creatures that live in the forest and are hardly ever seen, but are known from stories to abduct travellers.

 

Dwarves could almost be living stone. Imagine the scene from Aliens where they're walking through the corridors and we see the xenomorphs coming out of the walls, but make the walls stone and the xenomorphs short, rocky humanoids.

 

The races wouldn't necessarily be malevolent, but they also wouldn't necessarily have the same thought processes and morals as humans.

 

Just my $0.02

 

I like this. Even if they don't go in that exact direction that's the kind of variation on a theme I'd like to see.

Very interesting idea, you see people are complaining that dwarfs and elves are too overused, but really, it's just like in real life, most of books written by humans are about humans, yet few people complains humans are a theme that is very overused and boring, because depending on the author they can make any theme and any subject look good and interesting

[catmorbid]

I'd really like to see the roles of races and especially the balance of power turned around a bit, if possible. Recently there's been a trend with portraying humans as the master race and the others as lesser, enslaved race (e.g. DA, The Witcher), but wouldn't it logically be the other way around? Shouldn't the older more adanced race rule? Why should humans be anything but a sorry slave race that's only good at killing each other. Maybe then the player would actually feel a reason to hate and despise the races, making themes like racism actually work, instead of being just the standard superficial prejudice against the cute elf, so the player would feel sorry for them...

 

So, if I were to make a fantasy world right now, my order of things would be something like this:

 

Humans: "Primitive apes" that by others' standards can barely speak and think. The first thing built were weapons, and that pretty much explains the civilization, which revolves around greed, lust and violence. The good elves saw fit to take the poor things under their watchful eye, just so they wouldn't hurt each other, teaching them manners and civilization. They breed quick and learn pretty fast, so they're good fodder for the elven armies.

Elves: ancient race with infinite wisdom and immense magical abilities. Individuals live thousands of years and are consider themselves vastly superior to any other. "Saviours" of the pathetics humans and every other living being in existence.

Dwarves: Ancient enemies of elves; their old slave race who rebelled (since replaced by humans) and took shelter underground. Have slowly built their own civilization free of elven tyranny

Orcs: Exotic conquerors from faraway lands. At war with elves, the rulers of this continent. They're not bad, they're just different and because Orcs and Elves don't speak the same language, and have vastly different cultures, their communication has been reduced to outright war.

 

Dwarven wizards?

 

I made this fantasy world once where dwarven females were naturally psionic and leaders of their race. I found it a refreshing idea

[DarthAdamRG]

They need to be thier, in non traditional forms or not.

[Volourn]

"Dwarves could almost be living stone."

 

Already bascially exist in D&D.

 

 

"Dwarven wizards?"

 

Already possible.

 

 

All these 'original' ideas make me chuckle.

[DAWUSS]

 

All these 'original' ideas make me chuckle.

 

Originality died AGES ago. Everything you read/watch/play came from somewhere else.

[Tamerlane]

"Dwarves could almost be living stone."

 

Already bascially exist in D&D.

 

 

"Dwarven wizards?"

 

Already possible.

 

 

All these 'original' ideas make me chuckle.

Want some Styx water there, Merriman?

[catmorbid]

I'd say "original" is something that isn't the trend at the moment.

[Vin]

While I don't mind the classical Tolkien-esque fantasy setting, I certainly would not be adverse to something a little fresher. Also because I really want to see some "pacifist demonic hell elves" now.

[Lakota]

It would be nice to see the 'traditional' races, but taken more to extremes.

 

Take elves for example: generally tall, lithe, mysterious forest dwellers, often distrusted by humans. Why not expand on that and instead of having them as tall, pretty, magical versions of humans, focus more on the strange and alien aspect of them. Imagine a cross between 'greys' and Slenderman. Tall, terrifiying creatures that live in the forest and are hardly ever seen, but are known from stories to abduct travellers.

 

Dwarves could almost be living stone. Imagine the scene from Aliens where they're walking through the corridors and we see the xenomorphs coming out of the walls, but make the walls stone and the xenomorphs short, rocky humanoids.

 

The races wouldn't necessarily be malevolent, but they also wouldn't necessarily have the same thought processes and morals as humans.

 

Just my $0.02

 

I enjoy this opinion greatly. This is precisely what I had in mind. The traditional races are fine, the archetypes are solid, but nobody makes them distinct enough. I feel Obsidian has a great opportunity to do just that in this project.

 

I really like your idea for elves, and I agree that they don't need to be malevolent at all. Plain and simply misunderstood would make the race far more captivating and attractive in my eyes.

 

Cheers!

[Badmojo]

I am sick of elves and dwarves and want some really NEW unique characters like PST pulled off. Still, if they change them up enough and make them interesting enough maybe it would be interesting, but it needs more than a simple new coat of paint.

 

With that said, even I end up using them but changed up. I have a setting (a dark victorian era in personality/style, but technology/magic is a bit anachronisistic because of various reason) Human created elves and other species a few hundred years ago as slave races. Elves were modeled after a childrens book based on fictional beings called 'elves'. They were created to appear as tall thin humans with alien features that are pleasing to look at and desirable, but their looks and personality is alien enough that people will keep a distance. The first generation escaped and these wild/free elves reproduced and hid among the disenfranchised (they live within a huge city, too much backstory, but basically they are ignrored because there is too much going on for the government to worry about them unless they cause problems). The wild elves actually have shorter lifespans than humans, but they are strong and have perfect memories. The second generation created after the escaped free elves were fixed so they could not reproduce, created with a subserviant personality, and were born addicted to a drug that keeps them young/healthy, if they stop taking the drug they go through painfull withdrawl and age rapidly. The second gen elves have only been around a few hundred years, but theoretically they could live thousands of years. Also the second generation elves come with different speices, some were created to be intelectuals, some were created for war, some were created for pleasure, some were created as servants..etc. You can usually tell by their skin color/looks/and tattoo markings (used for identification, and whose property they belong too)

 

Something in this range would be cool.

[Shadow501]

I am sick of elves and dwarves and want some really NEW unique characters like PST pulled off. Still, if they change them up enough and make them interesting enough maybe it would be interesting, but it needs more than a simple new coat of paint.

 

With that said, even I end up using them but changed up. I have a setting (a dark victorian era in personality/style, but technology/magic is a bit anachronisistic because of various reason) Human created elves and other species a few hundred years ago as slave races. Elves were modeled after a childrens book based on fictional beings called 'elves'. They were created to appear as tall thin humans with alien features that are pleasing to look at and desirable, but their looks and personality is alien enough that people will keep a distance. The first generation escaped and these wild/free elves reproduced and hid among the disenfranchised (they live within a huge city, too much backstory, but basically they are ignrored because there is too much going on for the government to worry about them unless they cause problems). The wild elves actually have shorter lifespans than humans, but they are strong and have perfect memories. The second generation created after the escaped free elves were fixed so they could not reproduce, created with a subserviant personality, and were born addicted to a drug that keeps them young/healthy, if they stop taking the drug they go through painfull withdrawl and age rapidly. The second gen elves have only been around a few hundred years, but theoretically they could live thousands of years. Also the second generation elves come with different speices, some were created to be intelectuals, some were created for war, some were created for pleasure, some were created as servants..etc. You can usually tell by their skin color/looks/and tattoo markings (used for identification, and whose property they belong too)

 

Something in this range would be cool.

 

This is a prime example of what I'd like to see with archetype races like the elves. Reminds me of Dragon Age's Elves--but only with the fact of most elves are slaves/oppressed by humans while others live free. But that's where it ends. The above quote expands upon the simple "Elves are slaves to humans" and gives a familiar theme a breathe of fresh air. If elves and dwarves are in PE, I'd like to see a new twist on them, like above and other examples in this thread.

 

Also the idea of humans or another race "making" a brand new species is interesting.

 

I've thought up of my own twist on elves, making them more hierarchial based on what zodiac sign they are born under. This determines what class they are in society and what general career they are forced to pursue. Another example of something familar but new.

 

Despite my support for subverted/new twists on old cliches, I'd also like to see something completely brand new, or at least not seen often. The idea of having your standard races in a fantasy setting inspired me to think of a setting where there are no elves, dwarves or humans. Instead the main races are birdmen, demonic humanoids, lizardmen and wisps. But with the complete lack of familiar faces this may not make the audience pleased.

 

I'm sure Obsidian wants to make this game fun for everyone, so that it why I voted for: "I don't dislike traditional races, but I'd like something new." But let me expand on that. If there are traditional races, I'd enjoy new twists on them and give them their own identity in PE. I think the best option would be a mix of elves/dwarves with a new spin plus non-traditional races.

[NoxNoctum]

I dunno I'm kind of tired of the old "oppression"/racism theme. I dunno feels played out or something.

[MinotaurWarrior]

What I care about is this: are the differences between the races actually thought through and profound? An elf who has forgotten more than he remembers, lived through the isolation of being the only child in his community while growing up, or dealt with the callous destruction of young elven life used to keep their population in check, et cetera is infinitely better than a scaly human with horns called a "Drag'datha" who do a poor job of imitating some foreign philosophy none of the devs really understood.

 

Racial differences should be the sort of thing that could actually be inherited racially, should have serious implications, and should make me more fully examine the complexities of human nature by carefully changing one aspect of it, and showing how all the other parts of human nature are reshaped in response. Elves can do this, Eusocial races can do this, Lizard-men who have mating seasons and do not form pair bonds or raise their young can do this, any sort of race can do this. You just need to think things through.

[Vin]

I dunno I'm kind of tired of the old "oppression"/racism theme. I dunno feels played out or something.

 

^^ This. Very much this.

[Hellfane]

Personally I can't stand Elves and Dwarves. Not that the idea is bad by itself but that I feel it is horribly over done and always done in the same ways. Elves are always nature people dwarves are always miners and craftsmen. It's a fantasy setting . . . why do we have to do anything "traditionally?" Why can' we just go nuts and make something interesting. People loved Mass Effect and they really enjoyed the alien cultures in that game. Why can't we apply the same kind of creativity to fantasy settings that seem to appear in more sci-fi settings (or space opera as is the Mass Effect case)? Particularly as this is an original IP, why not go all the way?

 

My favorite D&D setting is Dark Sun for many reasons but one of the big ones is that the "traditional" races are about as not traditional. In fact the only reason they're called "elves" and "dwarves" is because its a D&D setting and they had to have them in there somewhere. Instead the elves are seven foot tall desert nomads who like to run and dwarves are beardless people with the genetic disposition to take up goals and achieve them. Half-giants and cannibal halflings, weird lizards and psychic bugs. With quite literally limitless possibilities, why do we settle for elves and dwarves? If you're going to Kick start a whole new IP for a game, make a whole new IP for a game.

[Lady Evenstar]

I want whatever races form the culture of the world they've developed.

[Badmojo]

Personally I can't stand Elves and Dwarves. Not that the idea is bad by itself but that I feel it is horribly over done and always done in the same ways. Elves are always nature people dwarves are always miners and craftsmen. It's a fantasy setting . . . why do we have to do anything "traditionally?" Why can' we just go nuts and make something interesting. People loved Mass Effect and they really enjoyed the alien cultures in that game. Why can't we apply the same kind of creativity to fantasy settings that seem to appear in more sci-fi settings (or space opera as is the Mass Effect case)? Particularly as this is an original IP, why not go all the way?

 

My favorite D&D setting is Dark Sun for many reasons but one of the big ones is that the "traditional" races are about as not traditional. In fact the only reason they're called "elves" and "dwarves" is because its a D&D setting and they had to have them in there somewhere. Instead the elves are seven foot tall desert nomads who like to run and dwarves are beardless people with the genetic disposition to take up goals and achieve them. Half-giants and cannibal halflings, weird lizards and psychic bugs. With quite literally limitless possibilities, why do we settle for elves and dwarves? If you're going to Kick start a whole new IP for a game, make a whole new IP for a game.

 

The aliens seemed unique at first, until you realised they were just reskined humans most of the time. The point went home when you walked into a shop and this honken alien is smoking a cigar...really. I want aliens to be trully alien, not just reskinned humans. The older games did this much better.

[Longknife]

I dunno I'm kind of tired of the old "oppression"/racism theme. I dunno feels played out or something.

 

I don't think hardcore racism is neccesary as long as the races have very distinguishable and different cultures.

[Tychoxi]

It's a fantasy setting, so I'm not gonna complain if they throw us the tolkienesque races at us (either classic, or some of the more recent subversions). But I would much rather see competely original races! I even want to see some weird non-humanoids (playable too)! And I want some starfish aliens (not as playable race of course) that the other races leave alone because they are just too damn different and incrompehensible...