Rest, injuries and recuperation

[Osvir]

Great ideas! I love the mobile camp, specially the one where you would be able to place it out beforehand (Example: Tradeway North in Baldur's Gate~ setting up an easy camp by the caves/in the caves before exploring the general area further. To rest I would have to return to the camp site).

 

Camping as an in-game function/Replacement of Rest:

* Can only rest by campsite

* If more Baldur's Gate-esque (Map-by-Map/Area-styled) can place max 2 campsites per area.

* If more Divine Divinity-esque (Open world) can only place campsites

a, at a certain distance from each other (It wouldn't serve a good function to place two campsites on top of each other)

b, cooldown/can't place campsites every second, but something sensible

* Campsites = Waypoints and you can Fast Travel between them and City Inn's.

 

This: you set up your Waypoints/Checkpoints yourself. Now I don't know how difficult/easy this is from a developer's perspective but that would be awesome.

http://forums.obsidi...e/#entry1221641

Ieo, on 03 October 2012 - 07:15 PM, said:

 

maybe there's a "campfire" button on the UI that allows you to drop a camp somewhere on that map and the mule automatically stays there.

 

Waypoints! There could be Camp Sites scattered about the world, mechanically they would be like "Waypoints" in Diablo II, you have to find them before you can use them. These points could also be points in which you can Fast Travel from Camp Site to Camp Site (Without going to the "edge" of the screen).

 

Remember the Scenario Sawyer brought up and asked us about what was good about the experience of walking back to camp?

 

I can totally see how this Camp Site thing could be directly combined with that.

 

There is a camp fire in Baldur's Gate, right outside a Goblin cave (in Tradeway North). For some reason I always rest by it when I'm in that area.

 

There could be different difficulties on it too, in hardcore mode the Mule can be slain, but in Casual/Normal the Mule always flee's.

 

How to deal with injuries, I can see a Fallout system existing... but instead of just using the doctor's bag or skill you'd use different types of herbs and plants, a wooden plank to braze a broken leg etc. etc. and the injuries heal over time and not instantly.

[norolim]

A good way to prevent abusing resting is to introduce hunger and thirst mechanics. If you need to eat and drink, you have to carry food and water and they: 1) cost many, 2) have weight. When you rest time passes and obviously party members become hungry and thirsty. Do it often and you'll quickly run out of supplies.

 

As far as health is concerned, unlimited regeneration is a bad idea. It's not Call of Duty. My ideas related to health and resting/camping, which may compliment what the OP suggested:

 

• serious wounds don't heal themselves; powerful magical healing potions are rare and extremely expensive and/or can only help up to a certain degree; healing would be done by using special non-combat abilities, healing kits and spells when camping; powerfull spells can heal instantly during battles, but are associated with some kind of additional cost for the caster (e.g. HP); healing serious wounds would take a reasonable amount of time; you could also go to a specialist to be healed quicker for a price; minor wounds and olnly minor wounds would regenerate;
  
• setting up camps would allow the party to rest, eat and also cook their food over fire for additional bonuses; in camp characters could heal, repair equipment/make simple equipment (e.g. arrows), heal wounds, gather herbs for alchemical mixtures etc;
  
• the party should consist of more characters than the maximum allowed in combat; if e.g. your PC walks around with a maximum of 5 characters, the whole party should have 10 members, so that if some of them are too seriously injured (and remember: healing takes time), you can substitute them with others.

Edited October 6, 2012 by norolim

[metiman]

I don't think resting is going to have any significant place in this game.

[kabaliero]

The best injury system ever made, was in Jagged Alliance 2, IMHO. It gave sense of real danger and consequence. Whoever played it, will understand.

 

Allods 1, 2 also had this "mortaly wounded" state, when a character was laying immobilized, and losing last points of health, but could still be saved by healing spell in only a few seconds before dying permanently (until reload).

 

NWN1 also had this quick and surprisingly permanent NPC death, that gave a feel of thrilling realism

[Nonek]

Always with the negative waves Metiman.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuStsFW4EmQ

Edited October 6, 2012 by Nonek

[Osvir]

I don't think resting is going to have any significant place in this game.

 

Oh I'm sure it's going to be alright with or without a rest function. It might perhaps not be significant but it's still going to be a part of the experience.

 

I have a feeling it is going to be something much, much simpler than all of this, I don't know; I just like to discuss.

 

EDIT: Positive waves <3

Edited October 6, 2012 by Osvir

[kabaliero]

Let the wounded feel their pain!

It's great that PE isn't going to be D&D, so perhaps it's possible for the wounded to get all the sweet penalties from their injuries.

 

Lost 1\3 of your health bar? Walk slower dammit! At least if you ain't got some perks that allow you to ignore damage done to your frail mortal body.

[vv221]

My two cents :

It's not because you're able to exploit a mechanic that you have to !

I never spam rest in any of the IE games. People doing it are only spoiling their own game experience, not mine.

[Keyrock]

I'm definitely pro injuries and being able to treat them while camped. Maybe make it an option for Expert Mode whereas otherwise injuries magically heal themselves after battle. Injuries would add another tactical layer to any time sensitive missions and/or if the world had time triggered player independent events like I described in another thread. This way if you were on a time sensitive quest or trying to get to a place where an event was going to trigger at a certain time and you had injured characters in your party, you would have to chose between camping to treat injuries and losing valuable time, or pressing on and trying to get through the situation while injured.

[Wirdjos]

Always with the negative waves Metiman.

 

"Kelly's Heroes Oddball - Negative Waves"

 

That made me quite happy.

 

Content: I'm really liking this mobile campsite idea. Campsites would be set up by the devs and would be one (maybe two) use. You would use rest to regain spells and health. If they decide to go with an injury system (I really hope they do), the injuries could be quite punishing, assuming resting would heal them. Campsites would allow a checkpoint system to be organically implemented which means you'd have that nice 'miles to safe haven' desperation. Campsites could also (possibly) be turned off indivdually in different difficulties thus stretching supplies. Camping itself could be optional and to punish players for using it could require heavy-ish camping gear to be carried. Really loving the possiblities this idea presents. Bravo guys.

[Nonek]

I've got to admit I was inspired by old Mr Tolkien, i've always dreamed of leading an adventuring party through the depths of a dwarrow such as Moria, it's enchanted me ever since I was a lad.

[thracian]

flesh wounds:

-decreases concentration and dexterity, may cause bleeding and has other effects related to pain.

-can be cured by resting, potions or divine spells

 

fractured limbs:

-decreases dexterity, strength, concentration, moving and attacking speed, may cause bleeding etc.

-can only be cured by divine spells

 

sickness:

-decreases dexterity, concentration and other effects caused by exhaustion

-can be cured by potions and divine spells

[Larkaloke]

The moveable camp idea sounds good to me. That would make it a reasonable challenge to get back to the camp from whatever dungeon or battle you're in, and would eliminate the oddity of resting in the middle of a monster-infested cave (although that is a good way to get attacked anyhow). I think it would be best if you could only have one campsite active at a time, since unless the party was quite large having more than one campsite at a time would seem to be spreading things a bit thin. It would also mean that you'd have to think carefully about where you wanted to place the campsite, or which predetermined one you wanted to use at the time.

 

I like the idea of a potentially fairly punishing injury system as well, especially if PC/companion death isn't in (although I think it would also be cool if it is). Although, if it took realistic amounts of time to heal from some injuries, that would probably be a little too much -- for example, I doubt most people want to wait several months in the camp if their character winds up with a badly broken leg and doesn't have access to healing magic.

 

I do also agree that being able to rest frequently and anywhere doesn't necessarily mean that people will. I typically go as long as possible without resting in Icewind Dale or Baldur's Gate, sometimes deciding that I'll only rest in certain areas and towns.

[Keyrock]

flesh wounds:

-decreases concentration and dexterity, may cause bleeding and has other effects related to pain.

-can be cured by resting, potions or divine spells

 

fractured limbs:

-decreases dexterity, strength, concentration, moving and attacking speed, may cause bleeding etc.

-can only be cured by divine spells

 

sickness:

-decreases dexterity, concentration and other effects caused by exhaustion

-can be cured by potions and divine spells

I would think fractured limbs could be healed in a camp as long as at least one party member had a decent healing skill so he could set the bone correctly, and of course it would take extensive amounts of time. Other than that I agree with your list, but I'd like to make an addendum:

 

Concussions:

-have a chance to happen any time a character is knocked unconscious or takes a large amount of physical damage in a single attack (let's say 40 or 50 percent).

-defensive penalty, penalties to all perception skills, spell failure chance significantly increased

-will heal itself after a period of time (whether resting or not) or can be healed by potions or divine spells

 

Another thing to maybe add. If you chose to press on when injured and got into another fight there would be the risk of aggravating any injury, making it more severe, which would increase any penalties and require more time or more powerful spells or potions to heal.

Edited October 7, 2012 by Keyrock

[Clammo]

Man there should be some side effects for potions, I mean they are like those powerful chemicals that make fatal injuries disappear pretty much, maybe some addiction system like in Fallout, or more severe side effects for the constant use of potions, also a cooldown, I mean what human being can chug liters and liters of potions in a matter of seconds, and in combat...

Since 1999, I've been begging Bioware, Bethesda, Black Isle, Obsidian and Troika to implement an addiction/Withdrawal symptom system for people who abuse consumables.

 

I think certainly in the Expert mode, or whatever they're calling it, then that sounds like a perfectly viable addition.Not so sure about those of us playing in normal mode. Just because I love the old school style games doesn't mean I'm particularly good at them so I'd like to know just how harsh that system would be before wanting it in a normal mode.

[kabaliero]

At some points of Fallout or JA2, you had to choose how much debuff-type of damage you are willing to take, to achieve a particular victory. It was hard to deal with, but it made player think thoroughly and plan actions carefuly, which gave a special taste of coolness, if you came out victorious.