Healing

[Badmojo]

The problem is that you will have up to six companions. That means you are going to probably fighting big battles, probably lots of little battles too. Your characters are going to probably get hurt a LOT. As mentioned, I do NOT want to run back and have to get healed by doctor/healer, nor sleep spam (or some other useless time sink) to get back to full health. I know some of you do not like regeneration healing, but at least it does not force you to stop the flow of the story because you have to heal again, and again, and again like you do with the other methods..

[Valorian]

In my opinion, it is preferable if the pains of combat do not disappear as easily as it does in, say, Dragon Age. When you must resort to healing kits or Magic for healing, things may be more interesting. But only if said resources are limited. If you're swimming in gold to buy items, or if you can buy and carry items indefinitely, of if Magic is something easily acessible (if, say, the magic system is a mana bar that can be or is easily restored) then there's no point to not restoring hitpoints as soon as battle ends.

 

This. Wise use of limited resources.

[Nonek]

The problem is that you will have up to six companions. That means you are going to probably fighting big battles, probably lots of little battles too. Your characters are going to probably get hurt a LOT. As mentioned, I do NOT want to run back and have to get healed by doctor/healer, nor sleep spam (or some other useless time sink) to get back to full health. I know some of you do not like regeneration healing, but at least it does not force you to stop the flow of the story because you have to heal again, and again, and again like you do with the other methods..

 

Well the answer is obvious, avoid getting injured so frequently. If we triumph without hardly a scratch upon us due to superior tactics and strategy, then there's no need to spend time dealing with potentially life threatening injuries, (or time sinks as you would have it) though magic and abilities may still need to be recuperated. Also what mandates that we have to have lots of battles, as i've said before i'd prefer more gruelling and intensive occasional melees than this modern obsession with endless waves of meat waiting to be butchered. Also with the multiple skills and routes one may be able to take through the gameworld, we may not have to indulge in slaughter whatsoever.

 

I do apologise if I appear somewhat impassioned on this matter, but a strategical approach, gruelling combat and no easy answers are something that i've missed in the software of recent years. Handholding and accessibility being prioritised over verisimillitude and accomplishment have in my opinion belittled both the player, the genre and any sense of challenge.

[ogrezilla]

As someone whose favorite part of an RPG is the tactical combat, I very much agree with you about having less filler battles and mostly stick to the fights that actually matter. I'm not saying they should only have story fights, but that most fights should be against significant opponents even if that just means a group of bandits or wolves is strong enough to pose a threat. There are times where having trash fights to build up a level of attrition is good design, but it shouldn't be all the time. And in those cases you should have limited healing like an inability to rest or else what was designed as attrition turns to simple grinding. It gets old fighting enemies that don't pose a threat over and over.

 

That said, I don't think healing needs to be inconvenient; it should just be in limited supply. I should be able to quickly and effectively heal up between fights as long as I have the materials to do so.

Edited September 26, 2012 by ogrezilla

[Uncanny Danny]

I'm interested in this game as a sequel to things like Icewind Dale and Baldur's Gate, so I prefer the system of those games when it comes to healing.

[ilhdr]

The problem is that you will have up to six companions. That means you are going to probably fighting big battles, probably lots of little battles too. Your characters are going to probably get hurt a LOT. As mentioned, I do NOT want to run back and have to get healed by doctor/healer, nor sleep spam (or some other useless time sink) to get back to full health. I know some of you do not like regeneration healing, but at least it does not force you to stop the flow of the story because you have to heal again, and again, and again like you do with the other methods..

 

Well the answer is obvious, avoid getting injured so frequently. If we triumph without hardly a scratch upon us due to superior tactics and strategy, then there's no need to spend time dealing with potentially life threatening injuries, (or time sinks as you would have it) though magic and abilities may still need to be recuperated. Also what mandates that we have to have lots of battles, as i've said before i'd prefer more gruelling and intensive occasional melees than this modern obsession with endless waves of meat waiting to be butchered. Also with the multiple skills and routes one may be able to take through the gameworld, we may not have to indulge in slaughter whatsoever.

 

I do apologise if I appear somewhat impassioned on this matter, but a strategical approach, gruelling combat and no easy answers are something that i've missed in the software of recent years. Handholding and accessibility being prioritised over verisimillitude and accomplishment have in my opinion belittled both the player, the genre and any sense of challenge.

 

Why this would be so different of taking a heal potion with 1 of life and magically restore all the health?

[Nonek]

I'm sorry Ilhdr but i'm not sure I understand your question.

 

To clarify i'm not in favour of stopping mid combat unstrapping my backpack, rummaging around for a flask of healing fluid, unstopping and drinking the flasks contents, before closing my pack and shouldering it again, then resuming combat. If you were a foeman, would you stop and allow this, obviously not you'd stab the character doing it. The least we can expect is an automatic critical hit, and the worst would be an automatic kill, rendering the potion pointless, so why settle for this old system just because it's present in older games?

 

As I said in the opening paragraph, let's just make up another system to make the healing of combatants mid melee more sensible. We have magic, the power of souls, prayer and numerous other methods of implementing a more consistent method. Why not?

[ogrezilla]

I'm sorry Ilhdr but i'm not sure I understand your question.

 

To clarify i'm not in favour of stopping mid combat unstrapping my backpack, rummaging around for a flask of healing fluid, unstopping and drinking the flasks contents, before closing my pack and shouldering it again, then resuming combat. If you were a foeman, would you stop and allow this, obviously not you'd stab the character doing it. The least we can expect is an automatic critical hit, and the worst would be an automatic kill, rendering the potion pointless, so why settle for this old system just because it's present in older games?

 

As I said in the opening paragraph, let's just make up another system to make the healing of combatants mid melee more sensible. We have magic, the power of souls, prayer and numerous other methods of implementing a more consistent method. Why not?

to be fair, potions typically get used from a quick slot which I assume is more like on your belt or somewhere much easier to access.

[ogrezilla]

I'm interested in this game as a sequel to things like Icewind Dale and Baldur's Gate, so I prefer the system of those games when it comes to healing.

The old games are great, but they aren't perfect. Rest spamming is one of my least favorite mechanics from icewind dale. There's no reason the flaws in them can't be improved upon.

Edited September 27, 2012 by ogrezilla

[Gorth]

Being a bit of a Jagged Alliance 2 fan, I liked how healing/injury was handled there. If your team mates ("companions" in PE terms) takes enough damage, they start bleeding to death and collapse on you unless you divert a pair of skilled hands to provide first aid. When combat was over and you had patched up those who had fallen enough to stabilise them, you could either leave them to heal slowly over time while you moved and and did other things. You could always return and pick them up later. Alternatively, you dedicate some of your (occasionally sparse) manpower to assist their healing process, speeding it up considerably. That was still, while you were free to go around and do your own thing. Another option was to send them to the hospital (a dedicated healing facility), where you could buy your way out of it and drop off injured companions, sacrificing money instead of your valuable merc "man hours".

I don't mind the idea of "combat drugs", that temporarily improves performance or speeds up the recovery process. Needs that extra Oomph? Get a shot of some mix of adrenaline and something that suppresses fear. Got cut up badly in a fight? A nice potion of stem cell juice might help speed up the process at a premium price... or a delicious bottle of souls from freshly squeezed kids or whatever gives people a regenerative boost.

 

Just rambling a bit. Encounter design and recovery from encounters sort of have to match each other to be fun IMO.

[Redwulf]

I like the old style better. I believe that it adds more tension to combat and more need to plan and have a strategy. I like to think more, and not just click "attack." I don't need regenerating health, I like the idea of health potions, which will hopefully allow one to make their own using a herb-lore/alchemy skill. Making that relevant, and adding another way to distinguish one's character(s).

[Epsilon Rose]

The problem is that you will have up to six companions. That means you are going to probably fighting big battles, probably lots of little battles too. Your characters are going to probably get hurt a LOT. As mentioned, I do NOT want to run back and have to get healed by doctor/healer, nor sleep spam (or some other useless time sink) to get back to full health. I know some of you do not like regeneration healing, but at least it does not force you to stop the flow of the story because you have to heal again, and again, and again like you do with the other methods..

 

Well the answer is obvious, avoid getting injured so frequently. If we triumph without hardly a scratch upon us due to superior tactics and strategy, then there's no need to spend time dealing with potentially life threatening injuries, (or time sinks as you would have it) though magic and abilities may still need to be recuperated. Also what mandates that we have to have lots of battles, as i've said before i'd prefer more gruelling and intensive occasional melees than this modern obsession with endless waves of meat waiting to be butchered. Also with the multiple skills and routes one may be able to take through the gameworld, we may not have to indulge in slaughter whatsoever.

 

I do apologise if I appear somewhat impassioned on this matter, but a strategical approach, gruelling combat and no easy answers are something that i've missed in the software of recent years. Handholding and accessibility being prioritised over verisimillitude and accomplishment have in my opinion belittled both the player, the genre and any sense of challenge.

I feel that someone should point out the fact that in a non-turn-based, party-based game you're compatriots (the majority of the protagonists) are going to be controlled by the AI and the AI can be stupid. It's reasonable to demand the player act carefully when they control all of the characters they're responsible for but to penalize them or a character getting injured when they had a perfectly good strategy but the AI decided to botch it seems a tad bit unfair.

 

Personally, I that in combat you should only have access to quick-slotted potions and that drinking them should take time during which you can get hit. If you wanted to take it further you could introduce caps on how many times a character can ingest a given potion in a set amount of time and add more than just the two standard potion (i.e. hp and mana). That way the most common potion could be a slow re-gen potion but even if you managed to stock pile insta-heals or even cure-alls you'd still only be able to down so many during a single fight. This also opens up the possibility of adding more interesting variations to potions (e.g. a potion that rapidly heals you but also makes you go berserk, a potion that heals you and makes you resistant to fire, a potion that heals you and makes you resistant to all damage but also decreases dex, int and wis, ect).

Also, don't forget about magic. There's really no excuse for magic to not be able to heal people if it can do anything even remotely advanced. I also think mana should re-gen and/or individual spell should have there own resource (as is the case in Dark Souls) lest you unfairly disadvantage magic players over mundane players. That said, there are still some things that can be done to put a damper on magic based healing. The first is obviously casting time and the possibility of interruption. Beyond that, at low levels you could make the super-heal-all spell require some time and multiple mages to properly cast, so it can only be done out of combat (unless the player's really good at tactics; in which case, why do they need it?) and if they have more than one of their mages get taken out they'll have to use one of the slower/less efficient methods of healing on him before they can use the super spell.

Edited September 27, 2012 by Epsilon Rose

[Gatt9]

Being a bit of a Jagged Alliance 2 fan, I liked how healing/injury was handled there. If your team mates ("companions" in PE terms) takes enough damage, they start bleeding to death and collapse on you unless you divert a pair of skilled hands to provide first aid. When combat was over and you had patched up those who had fallen enough to stabilise them, you could either leave them to heal slowly over time while you moved and and did other things. You could always return and pick them up later. Alternatively, you dedicate some of your (occasionally sparse) manpower to assist their healing process, speeding it up considerably. That was still, while you were free to go around and do your own thing. Another option was to send them to the hospital (a dedicated healing facility), where you could buy your way out of it and drop off injured companions, sacrificing money instead of your valuable merc "man hours".

I don't mind the idea of "combat drugs", that temporarily improves performance or speeds up the recovery process. Needs that extra Oomph? Get a shot of some mix of adrenaline and something that suppresses fear. Got cut up badly in a fight? A nice potion of stem cell juice might help speed up the process at a premium price... or a delicious bottle of souls from freshly squeezed kids or whatever gives people a regenerative boost.

 

Just rambling a bit. Encounter design and recovery from encounters sort of have to match each other to be fun IMO.

 

That's really the D&D system they borrowed.

 

When your character reaches 0 hps, he loses 1 hp/round until he reaches -10. At -10, he dies. A party member can stabilize him in combat (With a skill check in later editions). In some editions, if a character has a healing skill, he can accelerate the healing process while resting. The other option was to have a Cleric heal him either in town at a cost, or in the wilderness at the cost of the Cleric not taking other spells.

 

Healing Potions are present in RPGs, and really must be present, to permit people to create parties that don't have a dedicated Cleric-role. Without that, healing becomes abyssmal. It also lets your Cleric do something other than just memorize every healing spell they can. The alternative is 4th edition D&D, which didn't go over well.

[Gorth]

That's really the D&D system they borrowed.

Sadly, my knowledge of D&D mostly originates from the old SSI games and later the modern interpretations in the IE games (and NWN2). I don't think those games paid so much attention to the subtler mechanics of the game system(s)

[rjshae]

I know you guys have trouble suspending your sense of disbelief but there's a very important factor here. No injury should be more troublesome than reloading the save before the battle started. If you make combat challenging and resources limited then save scumming becomes a necessary strategy.

 

Even beyond that these designs are very good at making injuries inconvenient. I don't want to have to fret about every bandage or arrow in a party. I want to focus on the adventure, exploring, characters and the strategy of combat. Not having to hobble back to town at quarter speed so I can haggle with the town physician about how much to pay for treating an injury and whether he can get supplies then having to wait an ingame week and a real life hour before trekking back and realising the system would be identical if I just regenerated to full life after the battle and just go a couple gold less in rewards.

 

Some things can be safely abstracted to keep the story flowing. Make HP stand for "Heroic Power" and let me regen to full after each battle.

 

Good points. A simple damage and healing system is usually best (although I do rather like how it is split into hit point damage and injuries in the DA series).

 

One idea I've toyed with for table-top gaming is to make magical healing somehow less thorough than natural healing. The healing magic basically provides a scaffolding that allows the body to keep functioning, but it's really just a type of surgical glue. As more and more damage gets patched back together with magic, the overall bodily health becomes increasingly fragile. After a while the PC just has to go somewhere and rest for some number of weeks.

 

You could model that process as just a cumulative count of the magical healing applied. That counter then needs a cool down period in a safe, cozy environment, such as the player's house. The higher the count becomes without suitable rest, the less the character is able to recover from poison, disease, and critical hits. It functions like 'exposure' does in the real world; after a long trip in the wilds, the body needs some time to recover its full stamina.

 

This effect is also not something you could ignore by using a game restore because it gradually accumulates over time; you'd go on a long adventure, take your hits, then you'd have to rest up afterward. At that point, good food, healing herbs, a comfortable environment, and TLC help speed up the process.