JRPGs

[Calax]

http://kotaku.com/5899489/no-jrpgs-are-not-stale-old+fashioned-archaic-obsolete-out-of-touch-rehashes'

 

A kotaku editorial on JRPG's

[entrerix]

that editorial is.... not very good

[Calax]

I know, it came across more as a petulant "NO IT'S NOT!" to the stereotypers screaming "YES IT IS!"

[Sargallath Abraxium]

...peoples always fergits 'bout Vagrant Story when JRPG's is brought up...best o' the bunch, imho...

 

 

...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!...

[greylord]

http://kotaku.com/58...-touch-rehashes'

 

A kotaku editorial on JRPG's

 

http://kotaku.com/58...e-united-states

 

Another Kotaku editorial on JRPG's which I found interesting after following a link from your editorial.

 

PS: I love the guy who was with Working Designs...and love his tastes in games.

Edited April 14, 2012 by greylord

[Amentep]

Not everyone liked Victor Ireland's sense of humor though.

 

I still remember the battles on rec.games.video.* hierarchy over the pop culture references in Working Designs' JRPG translations (one in particular I remember was an ebonics gag from Albert Odyssey as I recall, or the reference to the TV show GET CHRISTIE LOVE in Dragon Force).

[greylord]

Can't ever say I followed rec.games.video to tell the truth. I'm not familiar with the arguments or discussions that happened there.

 

I would be for more of the Japanese RPGs to come across the ocean. It seems many we get these days are of a particular brand, whilst some of the others which are more like what I remember never get across to the US anymore.

 

It took like an army of requests and pleas and bartering for someone to finally even consider Xenoblade coming over...and there are a lot more where that one came from which will never see the light of day in the West simply because the japanese companies do not feel they will bring enough of a return.

[Amentep]

I'm not disputing that it'd be nice to have more RPGs come across the ocean! I imagine there's a feeling that the really old school games wouldn't be worth the cost of translating. Its not that shocking, I'm afraid, that Vic Ireland's first foray into Kickstarter is an old-school "Wizardry" style game - Class of Heroes 2 - and that the game doesn't look like it'll meet its funding for a physical copy translation.

 

But even as a fan of the old Working Designs (RIP), I was dismayed with the lack of fidelity to their source material (sometimes out of necessity, but the modern gags and references ALWAYS threw me out of the game).

[Labadal]

Can't ever say I followed rec.games.video to tell the truth. I'm not familiar with the arguments or discussions that happened there.

 

I would be for more of the Japanese RPGs to come across the ocean. It seems many we get these days are of a particular brand, whilst some of the others which are more like what I remember never get across to the US anymore.

 

It took like an army of requests and pleas and bartering for someone to finally even consider Xenoblade coming over...and there are a lot more where that one came from which will never see the light of day in the West simply because the japanese companies do not feel they will bring enough of a return.

 

When JRPGs get unfair treatment in the western press, it doesn't really help the genre and it also doesn't make Japanese companies more willing to release their games in EU/NA.

[BobSmith101]

Can't ever say I followed rec.games.video to tell the truth. I'm not familiar with the arguments or discussions that happened there.

 

I would be for more of the Japanese RPGs to come across the ocean. It seems many we get these days are of a particular brand, whilst some of the others which are more like what I remember never get across to the US anymore.

 

It took like an army of requests and pleas and bartering for someone to finally even consider Xenoblade coming over...and there are a lot more where that one came from which will never see the light of day in the West simply because the japanese companies do not feel they will bring enough of a return.

 

When JRPGs get unfair treatment in the western press, it doesn't really help the genre and it also doesn't make Japanese companies more willing to release their games in EU/NA.

 

True that, especailly when you factor in localisation costs.

[Bos_hybrid]

Wait, we can't criticize a genre because it might hurt the devs feelings?............................

 

Can't say I agree with it.

[Mamoulian War]

If the criticism is well founded and fair, it's ok. But most of the criticism about JRPGs looks to me more like negative advertisement payed by western publishers, just to make sure there will be less competitors, and are always talking about same bull**** like no innovation etc etc... Seriously if you take as an exmaple the most profane series like Final Fantasy, there is much more innovation and new stuff implemented in every single new installment compared with innovation which was brought to the light by Dragon Age franchise.

 

And you just have to shake head when you read it... Western developers generaly do not innovate, they just put same concepts which they think they sell best all the time in their games and no one criticise them...

 

Unfair treatment != criticism, unfair treatment = criticism not based on actual facts...

 

Do yourself checklist.

 

How was different FFXIII-2 from FFXIII and how was different Dragon Age 2 from Dragon Age...

 

Do not take quality of the games into the account, just look at them how many different changes to gameplay they brought to you when compared to their previous sequel...

Edited April 17, 2012 by Mamoulian War

[Bos_hybrid]

Innovation is not what I use to judge JRPGs or any game. I tend to feel most people feel the same way.

 

Besides, greed is a powerful motivator, if jrpgs sell well, they'll be localized. If it doesn't then there is no market for it and they won't be. But given the amount that make it to the west, I don't see any danger there.

 

As for the journalism thing. It's there to get hits, not much more. Personally I think both could flog some ideas from each other. Mix it up a bit.

[Mamoulian War]

Yeah, good mix of JRPG an WRPG is realy what could spice up little bit the RPG market... TBH the only two games who have ever tried to accomplish something like this is Anachronox and Septerra Core... (I do not know if FFXIII should be counted as well, but i think the game tried to hard to appease western audience, that in the end the result of the mix was not right)... Although I liked the game and had fun playing it, not as much like FFIX or X, but I played worse FF games

[Orogun01]

 

Besides, greed is a powerful motivator, if jrpgs sell well, they'll be localized. If it doesn't then there is no market for it and they won't be. But given the amount that make it to the west, I don't see any danger there.

 

Yet a lot of those make it because of petitions, or translation projects that gain attention. There is a niche market for JRPG games in the West so a lot of times a port becomes cost prohibitive.

[Labadal]

Wait, we can't criticize a genre because it might hurt the devs feelings?............................

 

Can't say I agree with it.

 

That's not exactly what I mean. I feel like JRPG's are getting low scores that they don't deserve. Most of the time it's because a reviewer complains about the story.(In this case, I agree that many JRPGs released in the last few years have average or cliche stories). Then they give it a 6/10 or something. Then I read Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect 2 or Skyrim reviews and those stories are praised.

 

It might sound like I'm blindly defending JRPGs blindly, but I'm not. There are a fair share of crappy JRPGs like Enchanted Arms, Eternal Sonata and so on.

[Orogun01]

 

That's not exactly what I mean. I feel like JRPG's are getting low scores that they don't deserve. Most of the time it's because a reviewer complains about the story.(In this case, I agree that many JRPGs released in the last few years have average or cliche stories). Then they give it a 6/10 or something. Then I read Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect 2 or Skyrim reviews and those stories are praised.

 

It might sound like I'm blindly defending JRPGs blindly, but I'm not. There are a fair share of crappy JRPGs like Enchanted Arms, Eternal Sonata and so on.

 

Just chalk it all up to cultural differences, Japan has their feminine bishonen protagonists and we have our rugged space marines. They both sound pretty gay if you ask me.

[Calax]

That's not exactly what I mean. I feel like JRPG's are getting low scores that they don't deserve. Most of the time it's because a reviewer complains about the story.(In this case, I agree that many JRPGs released in the last few years have average or cliche stories). Then they give it a 6/10 or something. Then I read Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect 2 or Skyrim reviews and those stories are praised.

 

It might sound like I'm blindly defending JRPGs blindly, but I'm not. There are a fair share of crappy JRPGs like Enchanted Arms, Eternal Sonata and so on.

 

Just chalk it all up to cultural differences, Japan has their feminine bishonen protagonists and we have our rugged space marines. They both sound pretty gay if you ask me.

West pitches east catches I take it?

[entrerix]

i don't think i've played a jrpg i would score higher than an 8 since final fantasy 9 was released. the entire genre went to hell when the ps2 came out.

 

kinda like talking about all the great crpg's that got released after baldurs gate 2....

 

the rpg golden age is done, lets just hope they make a comeback someday.

[Orogun01]

i don't think i've played a jrpg i would score higher than an 8 since final fantasy 9 was released. the entire genre went to hell when the ps2 came out.

 

kinda like talking about all the great crpg's that got released after baldurs gate 2....

 

the rpg golden age is done, lets just hope they make a comeback someday.

Actually I seem to recall a few JRPG's that scored a 9 on Game Informer, Radiata Stories being one of them which I bought in part because of the review and the subsequent ranking on the year's best protagonists. But then again I cancelled my subscription right about after they changed staff and I began suspecting that they were being payed off by the companies. Its speculation but I fairly can say that JRPGs are either ignored by reviewers because of competitive reasons or simply because that niche group is being underrepresented. The latter would also account for the low scores of other genres and the homogenization of games today.

[entrerix]

i think the developers who were making good rpgs stopped, or didn't understand the root of what people liked about them

 

bioware is still making "rpg's", but they aren't making games like baldurs gate anymore. i feel the same way about square in relation to the final fantasy series

[Alvin Nelson]

Great list of JRPGs. I'm personally a fan of both, so it's always interesting seeing threads and talking to my fellow developers about the pros and cons of the different types of games.

 

I would say the number one thing that differentiates a JRPG to w WRPG is the story and the main character. In JRPGs you are less likely to be able to create your own character of your choosing. Rather, you can do some small things in the game that change the ending, but for the most part the game has a story to tell.

 

With a WRPG, however, from the very beginning you are able to choose how your character is going to look, play, and act like.

 

I think both have their good and bad parts, but everyone has their opinions about what a TRUE RPG is, and it's that opinion that allows both sub-genres to thrive.

 

Personal favorites:

• Suikoden II
  
• Persona 3
  
• Chrono Trigger
  
• FF VI, IX, XII
  
• Xenogears
  
• Fire Emblem (the one for the Wii)
  
• Final Fantasy Tactics
  
• EDIT: forgot the Dark Cloud Series!
  

Continue on.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Alvin Nelson

[Calax]

I personally am gonna go out on a limb and say that I prefer to have a character that's somewhat laid out for me previously. Part of it is graphics style... your character usually doesn't look nearly as good or feel as well animated if you've got the standard 400 sliders available, and the character also doesn't EVER really say much to avoid "OMG it's the player!".

 

That said, I think one thing that needs to be done by the industry is correct the concept that this:

 

Is going to be the automatic protagonist, with terrible dubbing, and some insipid dialogue about friendship tacked on.

[greylord]

hey, that kid was great! And a killer blitzball player on top of that!!!

 

 

Some of the best JRPG's of recent years have come out on the PSP and NDS. For awesomeness, the re-release of FFIII on the NDS was a killer game, as was FFIV complete on the PSP (they also had a graphically ramped up version of FFIV on the NDS). Suikoden for the NDS was pretty sweet as well.

 

For the PSP, though not rated as highly, I really enjoyed Brave Story.

 

For Wizardry fans, JRPGs are the biggest things out there in recent years, with Wizardry, Etrian Odyssey, and Class of Heroes (unfortunately CoH 2 probably won't make it out West from all appearances at this point).

[Labadal]

Great list of JRPGs. I'm personally a fan of both, so it's always interesting seeing threads and talking to my fellow developers about the pros and cons of the different types of games.

 

I would say the number one thing that differentiates a JRPG to w WRPG is the story and the main character. In JRPGs you are less likely to be able to create your own character of your choosing. Rather, you can do some small things in the game that change the ending, but for the most part the game has a story to tell.

 

With a WRPG, however, from the very beginning you are able to choose how your character is going to look, play, and act like.

 

I think both have their good and bad parts, but everyone has their opinions about what a TRUE RPG is, and it's that opinion that allows both sub-genres to thrive.

 

Personal favorites:

• Suikoden II
  
• Persona 3
  
• Chrono Trigger
  
• FF VI, IX, XII
  
• Xenogears
  
• Fire Emblem (the one for the Wii)
  
• Final Fantasy Tactics
  

Continue on.

 

Interesting choices from the FF series you chose. VI, IX & XII are my favorite numbered games and I also love Tactics. I know the teams working on these games are very large and I know the teams as a whole deserve praise, but I still have to single out one person: Hiroyuki Ito. Every game he's had a major role in has been great. I hope he gets to work on a new FF game.