Pepper spray

[Humodour]

Corporations and lobbyists DO exert far too much power over American politics. Moreso than voters. That's not to say that it isn't voters who ultimately decide which candidate is elected, but that's not quite the same thing as saying the voters are completely democratically free. Consider a situation (does it sound familiar?) where a voter only has a choice between two candidates, but both candidates have been bought off by a lobbyist, so it doesn't really matter which one you elect, they'll both act the same way on a certain issue.

 

The USA's problems with inequality are REAL. There's plenty of knowledge out there to back that up. One reasonable indicator is the GINI index. By that index, China is now a more equal and fair society than the USA. Now that is disturbing. And here's a tip: it's not because China has suddenly become fair and equal, although it has improved somewhat.

 

Man, playing Deus Ex right now and these guys really hit the nail on the head with a worst-case scenario of the USA's future. It's so poignant because it's so easy to see how the USA could go from point A (now) to point B (Deus Ex corporate anti-terror dystopia).

[Morgoth]

Occupy Toronto: Kanadians have emotions too

 

[Gorgon]

Is it wrong to laugh your ass off while someone is obviously going through a very emotional moment...

[Gorth]

I don't think this "Occupy Something" phenomena is going to accomplish much in itself. I know what I fear and I know what I expect to happen. My fear is that a world without any "leaders" will not get the economy under control and bring the finance system to heel. Increasing social unrest will be the consequence. Even worse if they start panicking and do stupid things like printing money, thinking inflation something to be dealt with another day. Say hello to the global Weimar Republic where agitators and their henchmen rule the street. What I expect to happen, is a slow, never ending pain, where some will try to renovate the financial systems while others will resist as they have a vested interest in maintaining Status Quo. Stagnation until entropy gets the upper hand will be the result. No serious improvement on the horizon the next 10 years. I think I should take up hunting, it might come in handy.

[Morgoth]

I'm totally with Gorth in this one.

 

Prepare for 1-2 decades of slow and painful agony.

And after that, WW3

Oh yes baby!!!!

[WDeranged]

I wish I could disagree but the situation truly is grim, we've all been used, our grandparents' blood, sweat and tears built a global empire for these greedy bastards and now they don't need us anymore, still, hope for the best, plan for the worst.

[Hurlshort]

You guys play too many video games.

[Calax]

You guys play too many video games.

Actually, the only reason that America has stuck around for so long is tele-communications, and rapid transit between two places. Meaning that "the government" isn't something that only shows up once every 12 months to get taxes.

[Tigranes]

One striking thing is, though, how difficult it is for people at the ground level to understand what the hell is going on, unless you have some professional, academic or otherwise in depth knowledge/connection to the world of economics, finance, politics. I'm educated above the norm, I watch the news, I know my history, and to be honest, I have zero idea what the hell is happening. I wonder hwo many people participating in Occupy do, in a holistic manner, as opposed to a series of "I see x, y, z and that is wrong." (Not that that is worthless.)

 

E.g. The Economist in particular keeps printing its doomsday manuscripts about EU hurtling towards catastrophe, we see the supercommittee giving up, etc., but at one level, it seems like at several stages in the last 3 years we've seen reality reach beyond the limits of "oh, btw, this might happen but not really in a sensible world", so now it's hard to construct a proper narrative of what's happening and what it all represents.

 

When you don't have intimate contextual knowledge of something you have to rely on narratives to make sense of things, and we aren't getting good narratives, just episodes of train wrecks. That means the only thing my gut can tell me right now is "yes, this is for real, things are getting real crap and will stay crap for a while", but even then it's not immediate or precise enough for me to say, "oh, I should do this and this to prepare/mitigate", if that's even possible.

 

I don't quite subscribe to doomsday scenarios (and if I did, I'd pick a widespread escalation of things like the London Riots rather than WW3+Fallout or Big Brother), but in terms of that kind of uncertainty and an acute awareness of my own ignorance, that's rather disturbing.

[Humodour]

Global warming, increasing food shortages, an expansionist non-liberal China rapidly become the world's largest superpower, and now a persistent global recession with no end in sight which is paralysing America and Europe simultaneously. All via the backdrop of a world population that grows by 1 billion people every 12 years.

 

If we sound like we've been playing too many computer games, Hurlshot, it's because these are the types of far-fetched dystopian problems which make computer games settings fun. The fact that we're now seeing them in reality should be utterly frightening to you.

 

I'm going to accumulate as much savings as I can in investments which are as stable as possible, and I'm going stay right here in non-coastal Canberra, the wealthiest city in the least-exposed country in the world, and study for the next 3 or 4 years while praying to the non-existent gods that this blows over enough for me to find a job in an interesting scientific field once I graduate. Then me and my partner will build a self-sustaining adobe house on the outskirts of Canberra which collects and recycles rainwater, runs off a combo of wind and photovoltaic electricity (with solar thermal for hot water), requiring grid water or electricity only as backup, while growing a lot of our own food. It's me plan, and I think it's a bit more viable than breeding horses from sheep and cows on Fiji.

[Walsingham]

You guys play too many video games.

 

Define 'too many'. Ideally in terms of zergs.

[Hurlshort]

The future may look bleak, but I spend the majority of my days studying the past. That place sucks in comparison to where we are today.

[Tigranes]

Oh, where we are today is fine. It's where we are tomorrow that makes the today bad.

[Orogun01]

The future may look bleak, but I spend the majority of my days studying the past. That place sucks in comparison to where we are today.

yeah but all the people were skinnier, so there is something golden about our past.

[Humodour]

 

Not sure about the bit about Iran buying US treasury bonds - I don't think they're allowed. Amusing otherwise.

[Wrath of Dagon]

The future may look bleak, but I spend the majority of my days studying the past. That place sucks in comparison to where we are today.

Clearly the sky is falling, you should join in the general panic immediately.

[Humodour]

I've seen this pop up a few places now over the past few months, and I'm now hearing more and more of it. That is: China is about to enter a recession. The recession will not be driven by European or American problems, rather a drop in domestic demand (i.e. this is a problem before global woes even enter the equation). The cause of China's problems seems to be... drum roll... a housing prices bubble. Jesus Christ.

 

http://www.moneyweek.com/news-and-charts/e...my-growth-14700

Edited November 27, 2011 by Krezack

[Morgoth]

I saw this coming a long time ago already.

[Humodour]

I saw this coming a long time ago already.

 

Everyone kind of expected It I guess, given the unsustainable levels of growth and an unfloated currency in. But this is rather horrible timing for a Chinese crash.

[Walsingham]

I'm not saying the Chinese government is controlling the foulup, but surely now is th ideal time to have a crash. Blame it on the USA and Europe, crack down on economic wreckers. You know the drill. Bit of a purge.

[Gorgon]

The Chinese housing crisis isn't a real one. They spent enormous sums building infrastructure and housing so they could show good growth numbers to the central committee. Some of these projects in remote rural areas. So sooner or later it dawns on everybody that the projections are mostly wishful thinking and housing prices drop. This was always going to happen, so it's not a 'new' crisis.

[Hurlshort]

I went and looked at some new houses the other day, and I was surprised at how expensive they are. They were $600,000 for a nice 4 bedroom/3 bath setup, and apparently they are selling at that price. It surprised me in this market.

 

We also sold our condo a few months back. While the price was sickeningly lower than what we originally paid, we received multiple offers after just a couple days on the market. So the housing market is far from dead.

[Calax]

*cough*

 

Sorry, dragging this back to OWS

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/ci...rackdown-occupy

 

Not entirely sure just how much credit to give that article, but it paints a VERY scary picture.

[Humodour]

*cough*

 

Sorry, dragging this back to OWS

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/ci...rackdown-occupy

 

Not entirely sure just how much credit to give that article, but it paints a VERY scary picture.

 

The USA - land of the free.

 

Hahahaha. Or it would be funny if it weren't so worrying.

 

Edit: And I'm worried in part for my fellow man, but mostly because the ****ed up **** that goes on in the USA (with corporate lobbying and right-wing extremism) has a nasty habit of spreading around the world to countries that would rather have none of it.

Edited November 28, 2011 by Krezack

[Morgoth]

*cough*

 

Sorry, dragging this back to OWS

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/ci...rackdown-occupy

 

Not entirely sure just how much credit to give that article, but it paints a VERY scary picture.

Uh, hardly news. But nice to see the so called mainstream media is also reporting about police brutality now. This has been going on since the beginning in October.

 

Same tactics as in Cairo: Citizens go on the streets to protest, police kills a couple protesters, citizens get infuariated and counter-attack, media says protesters are violent scum.

 

I must say the American OWS movement has been pretty civil so far, I hope they stay in shape. Can't say the same about the riot police.