Pepper spray

[Calax]

Yes, they do have power over the national election, but in the day-to-day governing of the country, and what laws are worked on, they don't feel they have any power. I mean they were having this HUGE argument about the budget crisis and most people were frustrated at the tea party over that shtick, but the congress ignored that and instead just "re-affirmed that "In god we trust" is the national motto" or something like that. Nobody mentioned changing it or anything, they just did that.

 

Add to that the fact that now Corporations have unlimited donations to politics and people see their ability to influence the direction they're going as a nation dimishing constantly. Along with the fact that those corporations who are removing their power, are being propped up by THEIR tax money, and not paying taxes AT ALL gets people kinda pissed.

[Morgoth]

They want to radically reform our government to more socialist ideals. ...

I don't know where you get this from. It's government and all the big corporations with tax breaks that are the proponents of socislism. Socialism for the rich, eh?

And we're not talking western European weak socialism, which is disasterous in and of itself.

Woah, you have to explain this to me...what's so disasterous about having a basic social net? You wanna life in Somalian style dictatorship or what? You Americans already have to hand out food stamps (Socialism?) to some 40 million people. I call that disasterous.

Edited November 24, 2011 by Morgoth

[Cantousent]

Sadly, you'll have to wait for your satisfaction until I get back from dinner. Just a quick question: how's that debt crisis goin' for ya?

[Morgoth]

Sadly, you'll have to wait for your satisfaction until I get back from dinner. Just a quick question: how's that debt crisis goin' for ya?

What do you mean "for ya"? Not every country is so deep **** in debt a'la Greece, Italy...or the US?

 

Is there in the US even a honest debate about how to decrease the debt? No? Well, good luck with that. I'm looking forward when all the media attention about the debt is going to the US.

[Zoraptor]

The problem is the banks have all paid back the bailout funds, with interest. So I understand frustration with the fact the banks continue to get wealthy, good economy or bad, but I just don't see how letting them fail would help anyone.

With the Fed lending to banks at basically zero interest for the past 3 years that's hardly surprising. It's also rather... questionable as to whether that is significantly different from an outright bailout in anything other than the method in which it is delivered.

 

It has at least illustrated why the US is so keen to keep its global reserve currency status, since that sort of action and quantitative easing ("printing money") would have far more severe effects if there wasn't a built in reason to hold onto US dollars.

[Cantousent]

If you think the effects of the debt crisis is limited to the mediteranean countries, you're not thinking, man. You can believe whatever you want, but the problems in Europe are systemic and impact the whole zone in a bad way.

 

I agree that we have problems in the US with deficit spending. Like Zora says, the policies at the fed are short terms solutions for long term problems. Sure, that's all well and good. The truth remains that we're actually in better shape in the US, warts and all, than you are in teh Eurozone. Hell, S&P lowers our credit rating, stocks take a dive, and folks invest in the dollar. You guys might not like it, but it's the truth. Geez, half of these Wall Street bastards want a weaker dollar and the stock market takes a hit over here if the Euro takes it in the shorts.

 

But I tell you what, Morgie, I know you bristle when anyone compares Europe unfavorably with the US. I gotcha, but if you think you're all well and good in... what? Austria I think, and it's just those crazy Greeks and Italians who have problems, keep guessing.

[Morgoth]

Still sitting on the high horse I see.

[Gorgon]

The problem is the banks have all paid back the bailout funds, with interest. So I understand frustration with the fact the banks continue to get wealthy, good economy or bad, but I just don't see how letting them fail would help anyone.

The problem was that a lot of financial institutions and companies accepted a very high level of risk well knowing that they were too big to fail. They were entirely unable to make judgements about the big picture and with their high level of access their self interest, which was assumed to be to the benifit of us all, resulted in the opposite. That's a valid complaint, escpecially given the scope of the crisis. We can't have a system balancing on a knife's edge in order to maximize profits. We can't change that either without a major rethinking of our financial system.

[Hurlshort]

The problem is the banks have all paid back the bailout funds, with interest. So I understand frustration with the fact the banks continue to get wealthy, good economy or bad, but I just don't see how letting them fail would help anyone.

The problem was that a lot of financial institutions and companies accepted a very high level of risk well knowing that they were too big to fail. They were entirely unable to make judgements about the big picture and with their high level of access their self interest, which was assumed to be to the benifit of us all, resulted in the opposite. That's a valid complaint, escpecially given the scope of the crisis. We can't have a system balancing on a knife's edge in order to maximize profits. We can't change that either without a major rethinking of our financial system.

 

I agree wholeheartedly. I just don't see how camping in a park is going to achieve that.

[Morgoth]

I agree wholeheartedly. I just don't see how camping in a park is going to achieve that.

Any better suggestions?

[Walsingham]

I agree wholeheartedly. I just don't see how camping in a park is going to achieve that.

Any better suggestions?

 

yeah. Actually help someone affected by the crisis. Either yourself, or someone made redundant, or trying to find work. Start a goddamn business. Work in a soup kitchen. Going on a little ****ing camping trip downtown is pointless unless you have some outcome in mind.

[Gorgon]

Ohh I don't know. Just being obnoxious and loud worked wonders for the Tea Party. It makes your movement 'organic' and 'grass roots'

[Morgoth]

I agree wholeheartedly. I just don't see how camping in a park is going to achieve that.

Any better suggestions?

 

yeah. Actually help someone affected by the crisis. Either yourself, or someone made redundant, or trying to find work. Start a goddamn business. Work in a soup kitchen. Going on a little ****ing camping trip downtown is pointless unless you have some outcome in mind.

Work in a soup kitchen? And how is that gonna change the financial system? 'Cause sooner or later you will be screwed too. Everyone will.

[Orogun01]

I agree wholeheartedly. I just don't see how camping in a park is going to achieve that.

Any better suggestions?

 

yeah. Actually help someone affected by the crisis. Either yourself, or someone made redundant, or trying to find work. Start a goddamn business. Work in a soup kitchen. Going on a little ****ing camping trip downtown is pointless unless you have some outcome in mind.

Wals as usual you assume there is rationality in the most unlikely of places: the brains of simple men. They're desperate and throwing a tantrum against their government and actively opposing any form of organization or anything that may define them as; what they perceive to be, a corporation. Because then their cause would not be "pure".

[Calax]

What would working in a shelter do to bring the situation to national attention and keep it on the national pundits circuit and political consciousness for a while?

 

That's one of the main things that this has done, is to keep the entire "Wall street screwed us" in the national conversation. That way the entire issue couldn't just be dropped under a carpet with the media and wallstreet saying it's our fault for making these investments.

 

http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-ways-we-ruin...eet-generation/

Edited November 25, 2011 by Calax

[Volourn]

Here's a thought. If you don't like how the 1% does stuff and whine that they have too much power and influence... this is what you do.

 

Become one of the 1% through hard work and perserverance, and then use your power, money, and influence to chaneg the system from the inside. Afterall, plenty members of the 1% used to be members of the 99%.

 

So go get 'em, tiger!

[Morgoth]

Become one of the 1% through hard work and perserverance

You think those traders and banker hacks got there due to hard work?

 

R00fles!

Edited November 25, 2011 by Morgoth

[Hurlshort]

One of the worst things I saw with the Occupy movement was the fact that small businesses in the downtown area were losing business and even dealt with vandalism. That is the exact opposite way to change the financial system. I think I also read a story about how one of the Occupy groups had collected money and then put it in an account, which just happened to be with a major bank. Come on!

 

Pulling money out of the big banks and going with smaller credit unions is a good start. Pushing legislators to close up the tax breaks for huge corporations and supporting small businesses is another. This is a tricky position, you don't want the government to have too much control over the economy, but you also don't want it dominated by a few gigantic corporations. We need more economists and less politicians.

[Gorgon]

Funny stuff. Go read.

[Morgoth]

We need more economists and less politicians.

I'd argue we need less of both. There are too many Economists that serve as advisers and always turn out to be wrong -yet get paid huge royalties.

[Junai]

Here's a thought. If you don't like how the 1% does stuff and whine that they have too much power and influence... this is what you do.

 

Become one of the 1% through hard work and perserverance, and then use your power, money, and influence to chaneg the system from the inside. Afterall, plenty members of the 1% used to be members of the 99%.

 

So go get 'em, tiger!

That's the lies they feed you to make you believe that you too can make it!

To get rich you have to be unscrupolous. Those who get there will always protect their little craps game.

Altruism and greed don't mix. If you had read any history, you'd know.

 

 

J.

Edited November 25, 2011 by Junai

[Volourn]

"That's the lies they feed you to make you believe that you too can make it!

To get rich you have to be unscrupolous. Those who get there will always protect their little craps game.

Altruism and greed don't mix. If you had read any history, you'd know.

 

 

J. "

 

*yawn*

 

Plenty of example of poor people becoming rich and/or powerful through hard work, perservance, and soemtimes even luck.

 

V.

[Nepenthe]

"That's the lies they feed you to make you believe that you too can make it!

To get rich you have to be unscrupolous. Those who get there will always protect their little craps game.

Altruism and greed don't mix. If you had read any history, you'd know.

 

 

J. "

 

*yawn*

 

Plenty of example of poor people becoming rich and/or powerful through hard work, perservance, and soemtimes even luck.

 

V.

Usually takes combination of all the three, and upon reaching success, the role of the final one will be immediately forgotten.

[Orogun01]

Yet sadly with corporations monopolizing the game your only hope is to be absorbed by them and serve the interests of the chairmen. Let's face it gentlemen there is no more room at the top and they are hurting us in order to keep themselves on it.

[Gorgon]

Nothing wrong with being self reliant and believing you can do whatever you set your mind to. It fails as a solution to the systemic issues with the financial system though. They migth be bums but that doesn't mean they are wrong about this.