Critical Cricism...I hate to say it, but I agree

[MonkeyLungs]

EDIT: I'm all for them going balls to the wall on DLC stuff though. New armor, stats, auras on armor, on hit effects, whatever they want i'm cool with. They seem to have a really solid design team at Obsidian. You could just throw in some random names and table based random stats and easily add hundreds of items to the game.

 

Item Pack DLC's ...hmmm. Free ones? As pure item pack DLC's I would say no and boooo but if they add new items to quests and make you adventure for them, cool and yay!

[Bakercompany86]

I probably wouldn't buy a just item only DLC. I meant if they tacked on more items in any DLC i'm always happy to accept that

[Achilles]

I really think the stats of this game are fine, and they all make sense. And unless you're a brand new person to the genre, you have some understanding of what they do.

And if you don't, there's a Help Topics menu that will explain it all.

 

I'm about 50/50 on the item looks issue. On one hand I like each piece of gear to have its own unique look. This however can become ugly, such as in the case of World of Warcraft. Several times in my many characters lives they had great stats, but the gear mismatched just looked silly. Function before form however...

 

At the end of my game, Reinhart looked amazing and so did Anjali in her archon armor. So at least there is a difference in tiers of armor, i'm kind of glad they made them match within a tier set regardless of stats/names simply for looks. By the end your characters are looking pretty sweet, and the charater detail in this game is fantastic.

I wasn't thrilled with Lucas' "wings", but I agree that Reinhart was stylin' by the end.

[GhostofAnakin]

And if you don't, there's a Help Topics menu that will explain it all.

 

This is the part I have most trouble with, with regards to anyone who complains the game's not clear on what each ability/stat means. The help section is a huge help, I should know. I've never played DS before, and was unsure on some of the stuff and what their effects are, like Momentum, Retribution, Doom. The help section cleared that up with no issue whatsoever.

[Bakercompany86]

I wasn't thrilled with Lucas' "wings", but I agree that Reinhart was stylin' by the end.

 

I like the different type of mage that Reinhart is. I stare at his belts colors a lot zoomed in, its trippy.

[Achilles]

I like the different type of mage that Reinhart is. I stare at his belts colors a lot zoomed in, its trippy.

The matching headband was a nice touch.

[LadyCrimson]

Re:armor looks - imagine how I feel, when playing Fire Anjali. She never changes. Except if you zoom in close, sometimes you can see that the arm band she wore on one hand was different.

Human Anjali, armor didn't change constantly, but I still think it changes a lot more than, say, Lucas. But some of the differences are very subtle. The overall armor look may not change, but if you zoom in tiny details might alter.

 

I like Anjali's final armor, except for the helmet. I didn't buy one because ... well, I don't like helmets.

[deteego]

Well if you like your porridge that's all that matter I guess. Anyways what's missing? Have you actually ever played the games you referenced earlier?

 

I do see a pattern with Obsidian defenders though...first pretend there's no difference, and when you realize there is pretend all that other (awesome) stuff doesn't matter and DS3 doesn't need it.

 

*edit*

 

No, I don't need to play WoW...there's plenty of PC arpg's with robust mechanics (past, present, and upcoming).

 

Bakercompany does have a point though. In a combat system like this that isn't going to become party based what other stats do you want? All of the stats that Bakercompany brought up are very useful and go a fair way towards diversifying characters (i.e. attack vs will do you want stronger basic attacks or stronger skill based attacks. Will you sacrifice retribution for momentum. Is it more important to gain focus quicker with momentum or is your build more focused around getting crits with agility). Instead of strawmanning people defending the game as "Obsidian defenders" or whatever can you actually explain what additional stats you think the game needs.

 

I agree with you on deeper character building though, it had some basic elements of it- but it could use more of this variation. I guess, at least the game doesn't suffer too much from jack of all trades syndrome- sure you can unlock all abilities but they won't be very good unless you actually build on them.

 

Btw bakercompany you forgot Momentum, Warding and Retribution in your stat list.

 

Go look up all the stuff available in TQ/D2/ect...there's a lot more. It's not just the quantity though, it's how the item system really integrates with the class system and opens up a really substantial amount of unique builds from it. There's other things too like every character being tied to a specific weapon...I'm sorry but DS3 has a very restrictive and shallow item system. There's just no other way to say it...it's still fun finding items and all, but it's just a little disappointing that's all.

 

Well you see, now you are moving on and you have changed your original point

 

You are now talking specifically about the loot system, which many people (including myself) agree its a major weak point for DS3. The stat system itself is fine, as are the other things you mentioned.

 

The only reason D2 has more replayability then DS3 is because of content. There are more classes, and the "campaign" is longer, and you have your loot runs. The actual gameplay however in DS3 is a lot better then anything DS2 could have hoped to achieve

 

And as for variety in D2 due to classes, we all know that only around 1/3 of the builds were actually viable in D2, and furthermore most people only skilled like 2-3 which were constantly repeated. I did the exact same thing in TQ when I started playing it again, its just spam 1-2-3 (at most).

 

DS3 has a really strong base to build on. Content is easily added through the use of DLC's, and there is nothing stopping obsidian from adding things like Arena mode or unlimited dungeons. Also remember that they made a brand new engine for this game

 

Re:armor looks - imagine how I feel, when playing Fire Anjali. She never changes. Except if you zoom in close, sometimes you can see that the arm band she wore on one hand was different.

Human Anjali, armor didn't change constantly, but I still think it changes a lot more than, say, Lucas. But some of the differences are very subtle. The overall armor look may not change, but if you zoom in tiny details might alter.

 

I like Anjali's final armor, except for the helmet. I didn't buy one because ... well, I don't like helmets.

 

Agreed, armor needs way more "umf"

Edited July 2, 2011 by deteego

[Bakercompany86]

Yeah the stats are just fine in this game, I think what he wants is more loot diversity. And certainly while the loot is good enough to get you through the game, I can't tell you how many pairs of Heroic Pants I ran through.

 

The loot system just needs tweaking. I don't need to see "of the Tiger" or "of the Whale" to feel like the loot system is great. Just maybe a wider range, plus more high end (gold color) items that are head and shoulders above the rest of the loot. And sets that focus on certain stats. Offensive sets that would focus on Att, Agi, Will, and maybe retribution along with Chaos effects. And defensive sets that focus on Armor, Block, Sta, and Warding. I kinda like the set bonus thing too, wouldn't mind seeing that in DS3.

 

Again I feel this all falls under the "more" category and not so much in the "lacking" category. The loot system works as is and is more than ample enough to get you through the game, and look pretty sweet by the end of it. And for a change your starting characters don't look like total scrubs. Your beginning character in WoW looks like a peasant.

 

I'll take any form of "more" from Obsidian towards this game. Dungeons, Loot, Characters, Levels, whatever they want to make i'll take. This game is great and i'm having just as much fun on my 2nd 3rd and 4th playthroughs as my first. BTW I think Lucas has the best voice actor, although Katarina is sexy....

[XxTaLoNxX]

although Katarina is sexy....

 

I agree

 

Also, Katarina is sooooo OP once you get her 3rd rifle skill. Stack all AGI+Doom and nothing lasts very long... even on HC

[Renevent]

Well you see, now you are moving on and you have changed your original point

 

You are now talking specifically about the loot system, which many people (including myself) agree its a major weak point for DS3. The stat system itself is fine, as are the other things you mentioned.

 

The only reason D2 has more replayability then DS3 is because of content. There are more classes, and the "campaign" is longer, and you have your loot runs. The actual gameplay however in DS3 is a lot better then anything DS2 could have hoped to achieve

 

And as for variety in D2 due to classes, we all know that only around 1/3 of the builds were actually viable in D2, and furthermore most people only skilled like 2-3 which were constantly repeated. I did the exact same thing in TQ when I started playing it again, its just spam 1-2-3 (at most).

 

DS3 has a really strong base to build on. Content is easily added through the use of DLC's, and there is nothing stopping obsidian from adding things like Arena mode or unlimited dungeons. Also remember that they made a brand new engine for this game

 

No, I expanded my point. Also, more content is only part of the reason. DS3 could have 4X the amount of items and still not have a lot of re-playability. It's not just the quantity, it's how in-depth the systems are and how they interact with other aspects of the game.

 

Regarding D2 only having 1/3rd builds being viable...well first of all that's a made up statistic. Second of all even if only "1/3" builds are viable there's still a **** load more options than DS3 that being the case. People keep mentioning skill spamming as an argument against the older games too, and really it's the same exact thing in DS3. I spammed the same skills over and over against the same group of enemies over and over with little variation sans boss fights. DS3's combat while fun and fast pace suffers from the same kind tactics. Doesn't really bother me much though...just saying.

 

I don't believe the foundation is as strong as you say...at least not from a "unlimited dungeon" perspective. The item system would need a thorough improvement (not just adding more items), level system would need improvement, higher level cap, and a bunch of other pretty hefty improvements. This game will probably have story/quest focused DLC.

 

Anyways I do like the game (read my review thread) but let's call a spade a spade. This isn't a dungeon crawler, this is a console style story focused action/adventure rpg.

Edited July 4, 2011 by Renevent

[Bakercompany86]

Well you see, now you are moving on and you have changed your original point

 

You are now talking specifically about the loot system, which many people (including myself) agree its a major weak point for DS3. The stat system itself is fine, as are the other things you mentioned.

 

The only reason D2 has more replayability then DS3 is because of content. There are more classes, and the "campaign" is longer, and you have your loot runs. The actual gameplay however in DS3 is a lot better then anything DS2 could have hoped to achieve

 

And as for variety in D2 due to classes, we all know that only around 1/3 of the builds were actually viable in D2, and furthermore most people only skilled like 2-3 which were constantly repeated. I did the exact same thing in TQ when I started playing it again, its just spam 1-2-3 (at most).

 

DS3 has a really strong base to build on. Content is easily added through the use of DLC's, and there is nothing stopping obsidian from adding things like Arena mode or unlimited dungeons. Also remember that they made a brand new engine for this game

 

No, I expanded my point. Also, more content is only part of the reason. DS3 could have 4X the amount of items and still not have a lot of re-playability. It's not just the quantity, it's how in-depth the systems are and how they interact with other aspects of the game.

 

Regarding D2 only having 1/3rd builds being viable...well first of all that's a made up statistic. Second of all even if only "1/3" builds are viable there's still a **** load more options than DS3 that being the case. People keep mentioning skill spamming as an argument against the older games too, and really it's the same exact thing in DS3. I spammed the same skills over and over against the same group of enemies over and over with little variation sans boss fights. DS3's combat while fun and fast pace suffers from the same kind tactics. Doesn't really bother me much though...just saying.

 

I don't believe the foundation is as strong as you say...at least not from a "unlimited dungeon" perspective. The item system would need a thorough improvement (not just adding more items), level system would need improvement, higher level cap, and a bunch of other pretty hefty improvements. This game will probably have story/quest focused DLC.

 

Anyways I do like the game (read my review thread) but let's call a spade a spade. This isn't a dungeon crawler, this is a console style story focused action/adventure rpg.

 

Your point here is why I think they went with the loot they did. Given the linear story and the length of the game, the loot system is adequate enough to get the job done.

 

If they added some sort of endless replayable option, then yeah the loot would need a boost or you'd be swimming in about 200 pairs of Heroic Pants.

 

But I'm sure if a DLC came out with any sort of content, they'd add items too. Wouldn't even need different graphics on the characters, just change some names and stats around and you can add 100's of items with ease. I suggest when they do, they tweak the stats and add many pieces for people who like to focus on say, one or two stats. You could make one string of items focus on heavy attack, with a bit of agi. On the converse, make one high agi, with moderate attack. Then you could just see "offensive" focused pieces having Att, Agi, Retribution/Chaos:damagestuff. Then defensive sets as well, which stats would be obvious to use.

 

Lots of easy options there, I have no doubt they'll make it and do it well in the future.

 

As it stands i'm really enjoying playing Lucas right now. He's very satisfying to kill people with, and his 2-handed stance standard power attack is beautiful.

[MonkeyLungs]

Your point here is why I think they went with the loot they did. Given the linear story and the length of the game, the loot system is adequate enough to get the job done.

 

... ancd that just isn't good enough in my opinion.

[XxTaLoNxX]

... ancd that just isn't good enough in my opinion.

 

I get the feeling that nothing is ever good enough in your opinion. I get this vibe that you will always have something to complain about.