Marijuana legalisation

[Humodour]

Predict which state of America will legalise marijuana in 2012.

 

My bet is on both Oregon and California. Washington too if they can get their ballot initiative in on time.

 

Does anybody know which other American states will have ballot initiatives to legalise marijuana?

 

The number of Americans on a national level that support legalising marijuana:

1990: 16%

2011: 45%

 

Note: Ignore federal law for now. I would say the DEA/feds automatically lose once a single state does this (loss of legitimacy in the public eye), but it doesn't matter - a single state legalising weed knocks over that first domino.

[Walsingham]

While you know I support full legalisation, and indeed issing prescription 'free' hard drugs to addicts, I thought I'd share this article by way of a counter-argument.

 

In brief, the figures show a massive rise in abuse of over the counter prescription drugs in Kentucky. Deaths are up from these substances. Crimes are up from people wanting these substances.

 

If I were on the opposition bench, I'd argue this demonstrates that we must legalise at our peril.

[Humodour]

OK so I checked and the following 5 states will likely have a ballot measure to vote on whether to legalise marijuana or not: California, Oregon, Washington, Maine, Colorado

 

It'd be hilarious if all 5 held that vote and all 5 legalised marijuana. Then there would be a big states rights fight and it'd be epic.

[Humodour]

While you know I support full legalisation, and indeed issing prescription 'free' hard drugs to addicts, I thought I'd share this article by way of a counter-argument.

 

In brief, the figures show a massive rise in abuse of over the counter prescription drugs in Kentucky. Deaths are up from these substances. Crimes are up from people wanting these substances.

 

If I were on the opposition bench, I'd argue this demonstrates that we must legalise at our peril.

 

Please keep the discussion to marijuana, then. Nobody has ever died from marijuana. Prohibition of it is an abject failure from all perspectives.

 

Regarding the other drugs - the war on them isn't working either. No drug user should ever be criminalised, for instance. But where to go after decriminalisation is more muddy. For some drugs like marijuana and psychedelics the answer is obvious - legalise, safely regulate, tax, educate.

 

I personally do favour this approach for all drugs.

 

Regarding prescription drugs: there will always be people who abuse the system. You'll probably find that even if pharma abuse rates are rising, the problem itself is still a small one. The evils of prohibition are worse, though. Mexico's prohibition-fuelled civil war (40,000 dead so far), America's prison system (half the incarcerated population is in it for drug use), HIV from using dirty needles, etc.

 

It's a bit like suicide. Horrible problem. We can never really eliminate it. But we can change as a society to minimise it.

Edited June 14, 2011 by Krezack

[Calax]

This'll be what, the 20th time the "Legalize Pot" measure has come up in Cali?

[Humodour]

This'll be what, the 20th time the "Legalize Pot" measure has come up in Cali?

 

Try 2nd, the last one failing with "only" 46% of the vote in 2010. It'll likely pass this time as support has increased further.

[Gorgon]

I support legalization, the only real problem I see is with the new world order resulting from the sudden fatal drop in US productivity.

[Humodour]

I support legalization, the only real problem I see is with the new world order resulting from the sudden fatal drop in US productivity.

 

The US might turn into a bunch of hippies exporting all their peace and love to the world, it's true, but you can make a bunch of money doing that you know.

[Guard Dog]

In Alaska it is legal to have and use MJ under a certain quantity. It is illegal to sell it, go figure, but it is legal to have it. I've never bought the argument that MJ use leads t other drugs or increases in crime. No one ever got stoned and killed their wife. The probably got stoned and forgot to kill their wife. I am of course all for legalization because it is not the proper place of the government to tell you what you can and can not have like some evil nanny.

[Tale]

My subjective experience here conflicts with my objectivity. I've never touched the stuff, but my best friend for the first part of my life was a heavy user. And he has left me with no respectable image of those who do use it.

 

The problem here is that I grew up, as a child, around people who were also children who used it. So them turning out bad might not be the entirety of the problem. If they'd been drinking heavily at 12, they'd probably be in the same situations. But it's left a long standing bias.

 

My objectivity promotes legalization and regulation. But my bias is against the whole thing.

[Humodour]

To be honest, I am on psychedelics right now after having smoked marijuana daily for like a month and... my views on it are interesting.

 

I mean, definitely, I support all the stuff I said above about legalising it and such but in terms of usefulness as a drug... marijuana is above alcohol but it definitely clouds the mind. It calms and relaxes you in some ways, but it doesn't resolve what is causing you to be in a state that makes you need relaxation in the first place. And because it clouds the mind, you don't care about figuring out why.

 

So I don't think there is any point to consuming marijuana, but then I say this as one who has access to psychedelics and feels they are medically and psychologically valuable to society, so maybe write me off as a tripper if that suits your worldview haha.

[Humodour]

Also there is the very real problem that marijuana use before the brain has finished its final burst of growth for certain brains area (around the age of 21 in males) causes permanent gene regulation changes.

 

That is: kids smoking marijuana will have permanently altered brain chemistry. Now that is not the same as brain damage or neurotoxicity. But they have worse memories (working memory I believe), so that's definitely going to alter their personality over time as well as shape performance at school and what career they choose. I'm hesitant to call this a bad thing because, let's face it, the majority of the artistic community probably falls into this category.

 

These permanent impacts on memory have not been observed in adult marijuana users. Although I think one study did show long-term gene regulation changes in a habitual marijuana smoker. These gene regulation changes were the brain adapting to work optimally while permanently stoned. That is: the stoner's brain had adapted to functioning correctly whilst stoned, because it was always stoned.

 

So, yeah, legalise weed! Woo!

[Morgoth]

That is: kids smoking marijuana will have permanently altered brain chemistry.

Everything makes sense now with you, Krezzy.

[Humodour]

That is: kids smoking marijuana will have permanently altered brain chemistry.

Everything makes sense now with you, Krezzy.

 

I smoked marijuana once while drunk when I was 18 and avoided it completely from then on. I tried some psychedelic seeds when I was 22 and they lead me to try marijuana on and off for the past year (I recently turned 23).

 

The past year of my life has been far and away the best, and the most productive. I held down a full-time job in information technology at a university on $50,000 wage for a year and during a psychedelic trip vowed to myself that I would return to university and study Spanish and chemistry. I just finished the first semester of that now, hence why I am tripping right now. I got my marks back and my marks were (I'm not sure what system other countries use, but...) a HD* for engineering calculus 1 (multivariate and ODE stuff), a HD for Spanish 1a (s

[Hurlshort]

Weed has created a Superhuman Krezack! :D

 

I used to be productive, but then I had kids, and now I'm tired all the time and it is hard to remember stuff. So what I'm saying is kids fry your brain.

[Orogun01]

So while we are on the topic; why is it that every tripper wants to justify their recreational use by mentioning every good that the drug does?

[Humodour]

So while we are on the topic; why is it that every tripper wants to justify their recreational use by mentioning every good that the drug does?

 

That is an easy question to answer: because we see how much these drugs are vilified, but we don't see a rational justification for that vilification.

 

Did you know that the only known cure for cluster migraines - a type of headache so painful that sufferers often commit suicide to end the pain - is tryptamines. E.g. LSD, magic mushrooms.

 

The effects of magic mushrooms on treating anxiety and depression are also extremely potent - certainly enough to justify medical research studies in a few places around the world (Switzerland and America I believe are two place where researchers synthesise LSD and psilocin for medical use).

 

Similarly, the potency of ecstasy (MDMA, or methylenedioxy-meth-amphetamine) in treating PTSD (or post traumatic stress syndrome, very common in soldiers, police, nurses, firefighters, etc) is astounding.

 

So I guess that's a long-winded way of saying: because somebody's gotta open your eyes sheeple. Hahaha. I dunno, I may be biased - I come from a society and generation where drug-taking is common place among the youth, and we have fun doing it, and we are smart about how we do it. Except those idiots who mix pills and grog. Sigh.

[Malcador]

Good source of tax revenue if they do it. But yeah, the whole "homo superior" thing drug users pull is a bit amusing at times.

Edited June 14, 2011 by Malcador

[GreasyDogMeat]

I'm still not convinced about complete legalization, but I did vote in favor of it for medicinal use. Many of the people who need it are in serious pain and the pain medication they have to use is terrible in comparison to marijuana.

[Guard Dog]

I don't use it, never have (I think). But It's not my place to tell someone else they can't and I don't want a government telling someone else they can't on my behalf.

[Walsingham]

While you know I support full legalisation, and indeed issing prescription 'free' hard drugs to addicts, I thought I'd share this article by way of a counter-argument.

 

In brief, the figures show a massive rise in abuse of over the counter prescription drugs in Kentucky. Deaths are up from these substances. Crimes are up from people wanting these substances.

 

If I were on the opposition bench, I'd argue this demonstrates that we must legalise at our peril.

 

Please keep the discussion to marijuana, then. Nobody has ever died from marijuana. Prohibition of it is an abject failure from all perspectives.

The evils of prohibition are worse, though. Mexico's prohibition-fuelled civil war (40,000 dead so far), America's prison system (half the incarcerated population is in it for drug use), HIV from using dirty needles, etc.

 

It's a bit like suicide. Horrible problem. We can never really eliminate it. But we can change as a society to minimise it.

 

While I can respect your point about limiting this to marijuana, surely this should apply to your point about the violence arising from prohibition. The drug wars are not about dope smuggling rights. They're about heroin and cocaine.

[Orogun01]

That is an easy question to answer: because we see how much these drugs are vilified, but we don't see a rational justification for that vilification.

 

Did you know that the only known cure for cluster migraines - a type of headache so painful that sufferers often commit suicide to end the pain - is tryptamines. E.g. LSD, magic mushrooms.

 

The effects of magic mushrooms on treating anxiety and depression are also extremely potent - certainly enough to justify medical research studies in a few places around the world (Switzerland and America I believe are two place where researchers synthesise LSD and psilocin for medical use).

 

Similarly, the potency of ecstasy (MDMA, or methylenedioxy-meth-amphetamine) in treating PTSD (or post traumatic stress syndrome, very common in soldiers, police, nurses, firefighters, etc) is astounding.

 

So I guess that's a long-winded way of saying: because somebody's gotta open your eyes sheeple. Hahaha. I dunno, I may be biased - I come from a society and generation where drug-taking is common place among the youth, and we have fun doing it, and we are smart about how we do it. Except those idiots who mix pills and grog. Sigh.

So shouldn't recreational users stop so that there won't be a stigma related to these drugs. IIRC, MDMA was a legal drug until those damn hippies started tripping on it.

 

Also, we could simply do by researching the effects of these drugs to develop medicines derived from said substances. I don't see how legalizing public use it's paramount to the advancement of the human race. So, i'll tell you what I tell every pothead "be honest, you just like smoking weed. You could care less about the benefits"

[Drowsy Emperor]

So while we are on the topic; why is it that every tripper wants to justify their recreational use by mentioning every good that the drug does?

 

Annoying, isn't it? Its because they know its wrong and unacceptable but if more people accept it they can feel better about themselves.

 

My solution: junkies in work camps, dealers and anyone in league with them on the gallows.

You shoot enough people and you can push drugs from a semi-mainstream thing to a fringe thing, where it ought to be.

 

 

@Krezack

 

You're also not telling him that psychedelics can trigger a latent psychosis and permanently damage a certain number of predisposed but previously healthy individuals and that its effects are unpredictable and heavily dependent on external factors and can be a several hour long psychological nightmare for the user - which may also leave permanent scars.

 

If you're going to do junkie agit-prop you're going to have to do better than that.

Edited June 15, 2011 by Drowsy Emperor

[Nightshape]

So while we are on the topic; why is it that every tripper wants to justify their recreational use by mentioning every good that the drug does?

 

That is an easy question to answer: because we see how much these drugs are vilified, but we don't see a rational justification for that vilification.

 

Did you know that the only known cure for cluster migraines - a type of headache so painful that sufferers often commit suicide to end the pain - is tryptamines. E.g. LSD, magic mushrooms.

 

The effects of magic mushrooms on treating anxiety and depression are also extremely potent - certainly enough to justify medical research studies in a few places around the world (Switzerland and America I believe are two place where researchers synthesise LSD and psilocin for medical use).

 

Similarly, the potency of ecstasy (MDMA, or methylenedioxy-meth-amphetamine) in treating PTSD (or post traumatic stress syndrome, very common in soldiers, police, nurses, firefighters, etc) is astounding.

 

So I guess that's a long-winded way of saying: because somebody's gotta open your eyes sheeple. Hahaha. I dunno, I may be biased - I come from a society and generation where drug-taking is common place among the youth, and we have fun doing it, and we are smart about how we do it. Except those idiots who mix pills and grog. Sigh.

 

I've been self medicating for years. I've never been as mentally stable, and solid as I am now.

[Shryke]

personally i think it just comes down to the individual

 

all drugs, legal or otherwise, have differing effects for different people

 

i know people who can chain smoke and feel fine, but i know people who feel faint after a single puff

i know people who can drink and be jovial, yet i also know people who could be described as violent drunks

i know people who smoke a lot of weed and have held down a $150k/year job for years, but i know some stereotypical useless lazy potheads

i know people who take acid and mushrooms and have never had anything but fantastic trips, but i've heard people's stories of bad trips too

i know people who take antidepressants, and feel like their world would fall apart without them. but then i know some others who take the same things and are horrified at the effects is has on them

 

i've tried a lot of different things. some i've enjoyed, some not so much

i think it's more about knowing your own limits and knowing what works for you

i never really drank much in my teens, and when i did, it was always to stupid degrees. i didn't know my limits and i didn't fully understand the effects it was having on me

as with most other things i've tried, i've waited till i got older and learnt more about myself

 

personally i think it should be decriminalised at least