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Really liked the demo but some comments...


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Hi there,

 

I've been watching this game for a while and I was pretty damn excited for the demo. Having played it on both PS3 and PC, I'm still kind of undecided which platform to buy this for, but am leaning PS3, just because I don't want to have to buy a pair of game pads for my PC.

 

I'll just say that I liked a lot of what was in the demo. Combat was intricate and challenging. Graphics were, on the whole, very pleasant, sound was well done, and the brief glimpse of how completing side quests can open up new pathways was really cool. Both characters played quite differently to each other, but were just as fun. It's going to be interesting to see how the other two shape up.

 

Alright so I know that most likely the game has shipped and there won't be any changes, but I need to point out a few things.

 

  • Engine - on the whole it is really nice, but there were some moments where the frame rate dropped to choppy levels on the PS3, this was disappointing. I wish the frame rate could be kept more consistently smooth.
  • Anjali - her spear attacks need some different kind of feedback when they hit the enemy. This flashing lights make it hard to see that you actually hit something, so some kind of impact sound effect would help
  • Camera - I was yearning to pan down to see the horizon line, in so many instances. It's really difficult to see what is coming ahead of you if it's around a corner. It would be so awesome to be able to just tilt the camera a little bit more. I found that switching between the two modes helped somewhat, but I felt if the close angle was just pulled back a tad more and had more of a tilt that would solve everything.
  • Map - this relates to the point above, why not have indicators for enemies on the map? This would help you keep track of all the craziness that happens when there are a lot of enemies on screen at once
  • Tutorial - I think for the not so RPG savvy, you're going to need to introduce the stats/weapon effects in a little bit more expansive way than just "read the help topics". It would be good if there was some sort of training mission where they explained these, or some lore entries that you find at least. This goes for how the skill trees work as well. I got it all but I reckon a lot won't.
  • Re Spec - I think there should be an option to re spec your character if you want to later down the road, just in case you think you made a mistake with the skill trees.

 

All in all, I think the game is good and will do well. I do feel it is lacking some polish though. Some aspects are a bit rough around the edges, and it's a shame because if it was just 5% better, I think this would be a 9/10 game. At the moment it's looking like an 8, which is still great don't get me wrong.

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Engine - I'm a PC only player, so I haven't tried the PS3 version, but I'm surprised frame rate is a problem. Obsidian (Sawyer, in particular) have stated often how important a stable rate of 60 fps is for games like DS3.

Camera - That's something I also wanted to do. However, given that the maps in DS3 probably don't have ceilings or skyboxes, that's something that's not going to be implemented.

Map - That's a good idea.

Re Spec - I don't think that's appropriate for a game like DS3, given that isn't an ARPG in the vein of Diablo.

 

 

Oh, and welcome RPGCodex man!

"My hovercraft is full of eels!" - Hungarian tourist
I am Dan Quayle of the Romans.
I want to tattoo a map of the Netherlands on my nether lands.
Heja Sverige!!
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Engine - I'm a PC only player, so I haven't tried the PS3 version, but I'm surprised frame rate is a problem.Obsidian (Sawyer, in particular) have stated often how important a stable rate of 60 fps is for games like DS3.

Camera - That's something I also wanted to do. However, given that the maps in DS3 probably don't have ceilings or skyboxes, that's something that's not going to be implemented.

Map - That's a good idea.

Re Spec - I don't think that's appropriate for a game like DS3, given that isn't an ARPG in the vein of Diablo.

 

 

Oh, and welcome RPGCodex man!

 

 

^ hehe, someone already had my name. The deathknight will hunt them down.

 

I'm a bit of an FPS nazi. I really, and I mean I really hate it when frame rates drop. On PC I will play at the smallest window size if I need to get the frame rate liquid. I don't generally need to do that, but if I have to then I will.

 

There were moments in DS3 on the PS3 where I saw glimpses of the liquid frame rate, indoors mainly. The outdoor areas had their moments, but there was some drops here and there. It was just a bit of a let down after seeing all the game footage with awesome FPS. I knew it was going to be a stretch for the consoles though. I wonder if there is any difference on the 360 version.

 

The camera issue is disappointing, that's all I can say. They didn't learn enough from NWN2, which is sad. NWN2's camera was okay in the end, but only because there were so many settings and you COULD get it just right for your play style if you wanted to. But the initial settings were horrid, there's no doubt about that.

 

Why don't you think re spec is good? Your abilities have no bearing on the story at all. I'm only saying this because it can be possible that people go through the first few levels of their character not really knowing where they want their points to go, then they get to a certain point and they don't like the build. Why not let them change it? It's not like there are character stats that you manually up yourself which could possibly effect choice options in the game or anything like that.

 

One more point I'd like to add; there should be a way to switch to the AI character. This will mean someone playing a single player campaign can experience all of the characters. Just make it a rule that you always have to have your initial hero in the team, so that for story sections it can just cut to them. If this is not an option in the full game, then that makes no sense to me.

Edited by Cyn!c
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Regarding respec, I think that in a shorter (I'm going to call it RPG brawler just in this post) RPG brawler like DS3 or Dark Alliance, what you choose during character customization is a core part of the gameplay. As such, it's something that should have permanent consequences in the way the game plays and respeccing would trivialize the impact of that side of the game's C&C.

"My hovercraft is full of eels!" - Hungarian tourist
I am Dan Quayle of the Romans.
I want to tattoo a map of the Netherlands on my nether lands.
Heja Sverige!!
Everyone should cuffawkle more.
The wrench is your friend. :bat:

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Okay that's fair enough regarding the re-spec thing. I read in the latest Chapman interview that they were fixing some AA stuff for ATI cards. I had a very similar issue in this as NWN2 in that shadows affected FPS more than anything else on my ATI Mobility Radeon 5730. If I turn the shadows to low, there is no notable difference in FPS than having them on high, but if I turn them off completely, FPS becomes liquid. The game looks much better with the shadows on high though, so here I was forced to take an FPS hit.

 

A couple more things for PC controls...for the abilities which are mapped to the square, triangle and circle buttons on the consoles, the PC requires you to press 1,2 or 3. I think this is really, unbelievably clunky. I kept trying to just hover over the little ability icons and click them, I thought this would be a really good compromise for PC gamers. Perhaps this would cause some issues if there was an enemy in the same area as the icon, but overall I found that this never really happened due to the nature of the camera and level design.

 

I also found evade to be a bit hit and miss. Sometimes it simply wouldn't work. When I was holding space bar and tapped right click, sometimes nothing would happen. If I spammed enough eventually it would come out, but it did get annoying sometimes. I also got stuck in the environment a few times not being able to roll or walk out.

 

I have done a full play through of the demo on the PC now and it's made my platform decision really, REALLY hard. The game definitely looks a lot better and runs better on the PC. It's a shame, I really wanted this to be a PS3 couch/sixaxis game. It feels so right, but the port to the PS3 from what I've seen of the demo anyway was just a tad sloppy...

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A couple more things for PC controls...for the abilities which are mapped to the square, triangle and circle buttons on the consoles, the PC requires you to press 1,2 or 3. I think this is really, unbelievably clunky. I kept trying to just hover over the little ability icons and click them, I thought this would be a really good compromise for PC gamers. Perhaps this would cause some issues if there was an enemy in the same area as the icon, but overall I found that this never really happened due to the nature of the camera and level design.

It wouldn't work. Don't forget this is an action game, the pace is fast. You simply wouldn't have time to click on those little icons and aim at one guy while every enemy is hitting you. Especially since you need the mouse to move. There's a free left hand (as long as you're right handed of course) you can tap 1-2-3 with, then just a click with the mouse and done, ability used.

 

I also found evade to be a bit hit and miss. Sometimes it simply wouldn't work. When I was holding space bar and tapped right click, sometimes nothing would happen. If I spammed enough eventually it would come out, but it did get annoying sometimes. I also got stuck in the environment a few times not being able to roll or walk out.
Hold the mouse button first then tap space.
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Camera - That's something I also wanted to do. However, given that the maps in DS3 probably don't have ceilings or skyboxes, that's something that's not going to be implemented.
me too..more zoom would make the game better. Edited by Alpha
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A couple more things for PC controls...for the abilities which are mapped to the square, triangle and circle buttons on the consoles, the PC requires you to press 1,2 or 3. I think this is really, unbelievably clunky. I kept trying to just hover over the little ability icons and click them, I thought this would be a really good compromise for PC gamers.

I agree with your assessment, but I disagree with your proposed solution, for much the same reasons as Oner. I think we just need the abilities on keys that are closer to the WASD keys, so that we can have all the commands without moving the hand. I find using the empowered abilities especially difficult with the present implementation of the control scheme.

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Camera - That's something I also wanted to do. However, given that the maps in DS3 probably don't have ceilings or skyboxes, that's something that's not going to be implemented.
me too..more zoom would make the game better.

 

I just wanna view the vistas better. They are by far the most beautiful part of the game and you can't even really see them or overlook them because of the limited camera.

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Ok, did a 1st run through the demo. No PC fps lag, even while running fraps the entire time.

 

General impression: doesn't feel like an action-rpg. Ok, the combat part does, but the action is interrupted constantly with all these cutscene dialogues and that disruption annoys me. Which is not to say it's "bad", it's just not what I want from an action-rpg. I think of Diablo, running around smacking things with a sword or fireballs, not a forced chat-fest every 10 kills. Maybe in the full game they'll mellow out and become less frequent...this is just a demo, that's half tutorial after all. I remember DS2 took a while for me to get into it as well, I hated that intro section of DS2.

 

Camera angle/controls on PC take some getting used to. For me they're a bit counter-intuitive, I kept turning in the wrong direction and running into walls etc, heh. My old fingers became tired mashing the r-button down while also mashing the l-button in combat. Feels like I can't see 3 feet in front of me. But it works I guess.

 

The linear, blocked-in aspect to the pathways is definitely Dungeon Siege-y. :lol:

 

I like the Fire Form. The spear stance form was fine too, but Fire Form plays into my liking ranged combat.

 

Whoever is voicing the Fire/Spear player chr. - that was terrible. Lifeless and mechanical delivery. Sorry, but it was.

 

Near the end, I was starting to feel like "meh, I'm not impressed" but then I met Lucas. Ok, a companion, and one that picks up weapons I can't use, that's cute/cool. He seems likable, and I like companions - if it's not going to feel like an "action-rpg", I needs cool companions to keep my interest, so I perked up. Perhaps in the full game having a companion will bring me over the "it doesn't feel like an action-rpg" hurdle and into the "I like the game as a game".

 

Overall, my feelings are pretty mixed.

Edited by LadyCrimson
“Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts
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Near the end, I was starting to feel like "meh, I'm not impressed" but then I met Lucas. Ok, a companion, and one that picks up weapons I can't use, that's cute/cool. He seems likable, and I like companions

poor Boonie :lol: you're gonna forget all about him now, aren't you?

Walsingham said:

I was struggling to understand ths until I noticed you are from Finland. And having been educated solely by mkreku in this respect I am convinced that Finland essentially IS the wh40k universe.

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Tutorial - I think for the not so RPG savvy, you're going to need to introduce the stats/weapon effects in a little bit more expansive way than just "read the help topics". It would be good if there was some sort of training mission where they explained these, or some lore entries that you find at least. This goes for how the skill trees work as well. I got it all but I reckon a lot won't.
These down/up arrows which indicate plus and minus are nice but yea brief explanation may help (I almost wrote "mouse-over" but there is no such thing in consoles). Quite many players won't read manual/help.

 

Re Spec - I think there should be an option to re spec your character if you want to later down the road, just in case you think you made a mistake with the skill trees.
MMORPG Rift seems to have this system and so does Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning. I tried something like this on PnP long time ago, as a sub-product from an attempt to give in-world reasons to character advancement systems but, yea, considering the calculation tasks, that would work better in CRPG. Probably too late for DSIII, though.

 

General impression: doesn't feel like an action-rpg. Ok, the combat part does, but the action is interrupted constantly with all these cutscene dialogues and that disruption annoys me. Which is not to say it's "bad", it's just not what I want from an action-rpg. I think of Diablo, running around smacking things with a sword or fireballs, not a forced chat-fest every 10 kills. Maybe in the full game they'll mellow out and become less frequent...this is just a demo, that's half tutorial after all. I remember DS2 took a while for me to get into it as well, I hated that intro section of DS2.
Oh, yea. I found the Witcher 2 turned some cut-scenes into things which make the players spend less time on just passively watching it, to say at least*. I built a habit of taking cut-scenes in RPG as resting time to action and got game-over screens due to it till my brains switched to action game mode, where I can see much less cut-scenes. I don't play action games outside of a certain genre and yet but guess it's enough to find that we don't see too many cut-scenes in them. Even scenes which have PC-NPC interactions are mostly done in in-game.

* <A mild spoiler for Roche path in Chapter 2>

I see so no point in controlling Henselt that I needed to let him killed in one of camp fires once. :lol:

 

 

Whoever is voicing the Fire/Spear player chr. - that was terrible. Lifeless and mechanical delivery. Sorry, but it was.
Don't even bother to check her name while you indeed reckon Lucas (check the quote below)? :lol: Is this because of the setting, perchance? She is not exactly a human character, which might explain the lack of emotion.

 

Near the end, I was starting to feel like "meh, I'm not impressed" but then I met Lucas. Ok, a companion, and one that picks up weapons I can't use, that's cute/cool. He seems likable, and I like companions

poor Boonie :lol: you're gonna forget all about him now, aren't you?

Butts and boobs will have universal effect but let's see how his charm works on ladies and gay people from different nationalities/backgrounds. Some might be swept by mature male charm of Reinhart. :lol:
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I know her name starts with an A but that's all I remember from the chr. screen. I admittedly fast-clicked through half the dialogue because honestly I just don't care.

 

Lucas isn't that handsome ... but his voice when he said "forgot to introduce myself properly, I'm Lucas" got me. Well, first I laughed, because it was so corny. hahaha. :*

 

And yeah, the fire chick's voice...not human. But she doesn't sound inhuman or unearthly...she sounds like a robot with a voice-echo effect. Like someone else said, no emotion at all. Spock's voice had more inflection.

Edited by LadyCrimson
“Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts
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Lucas isn't that handsome ... but his voice when he said "forgot to introduce myself properly, I'm Lucas" got me. Well, first I laughed, because it was so corny. hahaha. :)

 

Lucas is voiced by Crispin Freeman (Gann from MOTB) if I recall. :*

OH really?
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I really think the people slamming this game are not judging it on it's own merits. Did you find the extra pathways in the chapterhouse? Did you find the blocke off paths on the Pilgrims road? Or locked doors in the caverns? What about choosing to do the fisherman side quest then finding out Gregorio will talk to you after that? Did you play on hard and realize that if you just run in and button mash, you're going to last about 5 seconds?

 

I've played the demo through a few times now and I can tell I'm just going to love this game. But, my main issue now is whether I should get it for PS3 or PC...hmmm

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I really think the people slamming this game are not judging it on it's own merits. Did you find the extra pathways in the chapterhouse? Did you find the blocke off paths on the Pilgrims road? Or locked doors in the caverns? What about choosing to do the fisherman side quest then finding out Gregorio will talk to you after that? Did you play on hard and realize that if you just run in and button mash, you're going to last about 5 seconds?

 

I've played the demo through a few times now and I can tell I'm just going to love this game. But, my main issue now is whether I should get it for PS3 or PC...hmmm

 

If you have a gamepad. PC.

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I really think the people slamming this game are not judging it on it's own merits. Did you find the extra pathways in the chapterhouse? Did you find the blocke off paths on the Pilgrims road? Or locked doors in the caverns? What about choosing to do the fisherman side quest then finding out Gregorio will talk to you after that? Did you play on hard and realize that if you just run in and button mash, you're going to last about 5 seconds?

 

I've played the demo through a few times now and I can tell I'm just going to love this game. But, my main issue now is whether I should get it for PS3 or PC...hmmm

 

If you have a gamepad. PC.

 

i agree.

 

i tried the ps3 demo and the textures were simply abysmal. i know the developers have said they are going to be better in the full game, but im not taking the chance that they come anywhere close to the pc version.

 

my pc runs the game maxed. ive got a controller. whilst i want trophies, not at the expense of visuals.

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