Piracy

[greylord]

Did you just try and connect rape to DRM?

 

Seriously, Maria is correct, these are video games. Lighten up and stop trying to compare them to serious things.

Didn't we establish video game piracy is costing people their daily bread?

Also, says the guy who finds it "repugnant".

 

Hey, I downgraded that to morally unripened!

 

But I take piracy a lot more serious than I do DRM. DRM can be a pain, it can even on rare occasions cause a serious computer problem, but it still isn't a crime. Piracy is.

 

Actually in some countries DRM IS or has been a crime, but in some of those places they haven't been prosecuted AND/OR they've greased the palms of lawmakers to over ride the older laws (as they tried in Switzerland and luckily failed for once).

 

The difference between the DRM creators and the pirates...The DRM guys have deeper pockets and more effective lobbyest.

 

PS: In fact, in some places it not only is some of the DRM stuff illegal, but technically they must allow the person who buys the product to be able to make one legal backup for their PERSONAL usage. I see DRM more focused at stopping this with wordage such as...one copy per computer...or other things targetted at BREAKING these types of laws...but leaving the publisher just enough squeeking room to say they didn't. As in, sure they put in everything and the kitchen sink to prevent someone from making a backup as the law says they must allow...BUT they didn't actually STOP the person from making that back up...and as long as that backup is only used on the original computer it was installed on...well...they didn't actually STOP them in person...right?

 

The people behind DRM and suing those who are d/l pirated stuff are JUST as guilty as the pirates. I mean, one thing I've always thought was ironic was that if the RIAA and MPAA and all those can keep tabs on who's d/ling what...that means THEY ALSO must be on those networks and d/ling stuff to see if it's what it says it is. If so...that means they too are also downloading pirated items and visiting piracy site...MUCH more than their LEGAL customers.

 

I'd say it's obvious how much they've greased palms since when they report evidence such as that (or other types such as...we've counted this many downloads from the pirates...which probably means they've hooked into the pirates themselves and are downloading things...inclusive of items that are trying to buy off their popularity by claiming to be the popular thing when theya re something else...meaning the companies have also illegally pirated). If I were the cops...I'd say...that's great...I'm getting a warrant.

 

Then I'd return with a warrant with both whom they are protesting...AND all the complaining companies computers...because I'm pretty certain I'd find a high amount of piracy software on whatever machine they've been using to find these pirates in the first place.

 

As a legal game customer...I don't run into the pirated games and such much on the internet...and I imagine one wouldn't unless they too were going to the piracy sites and piracy arenas and downloading the p2p and torrent stuff themselves. Hence, not only are the publishers DRM mostly an illegal thing that they avoid prosecution for by HUGE amounts of lobbiests and greasing palms...but in fact I'd say that there's a Good chance that they are also pirating themselves...just no one's had the power to propose searching THEIR computers for illegal material also.

Edited December 8, 2011 by greylord

[Volourn]

And, DRM creators aren't (neccessarily) theives while ALL pirates are theiving scumbags.

 

Why are people stilld efending theft of software products on a software focused company's forums? Talk about disgusting, rude, disrepectful, and evil.

[Hurlshort]

Gotta agree with Volourn on this one.

 

If I don't like DRM, as a consumer I don't have to buy the product. Easy peasy.

 

If I don't like piracy, as a developer/publisher, what are my options?

[Mamoulian War]

Gotta agree with Volourn on this one.

 

If I don't like DRM, as a consumer I don't have to buy the product. Easy peasy.

 

If I don't like piracy, as a developer/publisher, what are my options?

 

Offer more convenient way how to obtain your product, than pirates

 

Problem solved

[Malcador]

Well, not much, they've cracked most pretty promptly.

[Mamoulian War]

And, DRM creators aren't (neccessarily) theives while ALL pirates are theiving scumbags.

 

Why are people stilld efending theft of software products on a software focused company's forums? Talk about disgusting, rude, disrepectful, and evil.

 

 

No it is absolutely not. Different people different opinion.

 

By access to these different opinions a developer or publisher might develop in the future better strategy to offer their products and lower the piracy rate of their products... Everybody, including pirates, ARE potential customers.

 

If you do not hear to both sides of barricade, you will end up like Ubisoft... Being the laugh-stock of the industry...

[greylord]

I had an interesting thought, perhaps one's thoughts are prescribed by what affects them.

 

As a LEGAL customer...who hasn't pirated, I'm heavily affected by what is given in legal copies. Pirates haven't done anything to me. Publishers HAVE. I've been directly affected by DRM.

 

I've seen it's effects personally. It's driven me to get a PS3 simply to avoid many games with their DRM (any Ubi game for example...oddly enough I don't have to worry about their draconian always on the internet DRM if I play their games on the PS3...though when I wander markets in Asia...there are FAR more Pirated console games than anything PC...which leads me the real DRM reasons isn't against Piracy at all despite what they say...but to BREAK the LAWS of making backups or second hand sales).

 

Hence, I'm solidly against DRM because as a Legitimate customer...it hurts ME!

 

Perhaps those against Piracy (and I include the producers of games) are those who are or have pirated games in the past. They somehow see how easy it was for them...and either feel guilty or think...oh my...this must be what's happening, and apply their morales at the time to everyone else. Someone might do this with my stuff that I worked hard on...I can do this to others...but my gosh...can't let them do this to me!!!!

 

Or something like that.

 

AKA..perhaps the feelings that pirates are more guilty than DRM is because folks have participated in piracy in the past and feel bad about it or something...

 

So their feelings on game piracy are completely different then those of us who haven't game pirated and tried to play games by the legalities and the rules...

 

Who have ONLY seen and been truly affected/hurt by the stupid DRM policies which to ME seem to try to break the law by circumventing it in round about measures and then greasing the palms of lawmakers to try to make it so that those round about policies are either legalized or ignored.

[Oner]

Can you maybe find some links for us? I'm with Gfted, I've never heard that claim. I've heard them complain about development costs rising due to piracy, but I've never heard that the price is being shifted to the consumers.

I read it once, but that was around 2000.

[sorophx]

this thread makes me curious, if Volo is actually a Pirate Bay regular. in my experience the most vocal opposition are usually the most hardcore users

[Mamoulian War]

this thread makes me curious, if Volo is actually a Pirate Bay regular. in my experience the most vocal opposition are usually the most hardcore users

 

+1

[Humodour]

I stopped pirating **** when Steam became good. Cheap, easily accessible games with augmented features (such as friends and multiplayer).

 

Drop the "pirates are scum" bull**** (I'm looking at you Gorth). It's a load of rubbish. At worst they're just lazy (or poor). You stop them, win them over by providing a better service than the guys providing warez. As Steam has done, and as Gabe Newell well knows.

 

Stop demonising people - it's unhelpful to the argument you are trying to make.

[Zoraptor]

"Both sides have entitlement issues- Ubisoft feels entitled to sales despite shoddy ports, hopelessly annoying DRM and a horrendous attitude"

 

Except, here's a thought, if one thinks Ubisoft has a horrible product/service.. don't buy them or play them. Why would you steal soemthing you think is crappy?

I don't know why anyone would pirate something which is rubbish- but that's irrelevant anyway, as I was talking about their sales on PC and their belief that they are entitled to a certain amount. If you sell a crap product you cannot expect it to sell well irrespective of piracy- it didn't sell because it was crap. So if it's a wonder anyone would pirate it, it's far, far more so that anyone would pay for it.

 

Blaming pirates rather than yourself when your crap product, marketed crappily with crap DRM to people you describe as being pirates even if they have bought the game fails to sell, is, well, a load of crap. Neither Ubisoft nor anyone else is entitled to sales or anyone's money simply because they release a product. But that is clearly how they feel.

[Maria Caliban]

Well, not much, they've cracked most pretty promptly.

I recall the OUTRAGE* on the BioWare boards when pirates were able to play ME 2 before the release date.

 

*To be sure, people are outraged there constantly.

[Gorth]

Drop the "pirates are scum" bull**** (I'm looking at you Gorth). It's a load of rubbish.

That would be Volourn, I just consider them pathetic losers with self entitlement issues.

[Malcador]

Well, not much, they've cracked most pretty promptly.

I recall the OUTRAGE* on the BioWare boards when pirates were able to play ME 2 before the release date.

 

*To be sure, people are outraged there constantly.

 

Heh, I didn't know ME2 got leaked that early. One good thing about Steam I suppose, those are always cracked after release so you don't end up in that kind of situation.

 

As for the harsh language about people pirating games, it's pretty amusing

[Volourn]

No, I'm not going to stop bashing scumbag thieves just like I won't stop bashing scumbag murdfers or scumbag filthy lying politiians. They're scumbags. Plain and simple.

 

And, the ludicrious chidlish 'you smelled it you dealt it' accusation is hilarious. I've never pirated in my life. I've had people give me pirated goods and broke said CD right in front of them. I've gotten into arguments with pirates whoa re otherwise close to me (ie. family members and friends) because they started crying about me hurting their feelinsg when i call pirates scumbag thieves even thoguh that's exactly what you are when you steal.

 

Defenmding scumbag thieves makes you pathetic and to do so on a software developer forum is doubly pathetic espciially since support of piracy is technically 'against the rules' of the forums. As it shoudl be. Because, by defintion, pirates are evil. Selfish to the core. Scumbag thieves.

[sorophx]

yes!

[greylord]

yes!

 

Seeing his response, I'd agree...yes!

 

Breaking a CD right in front of them! I've tried to break CD's...those things are dang hard to break...unless you are He-Man! I think mine is normally either because the CD is worthless and I'm using it as a frisbee (true story, I've used freebies CDs that aren't worth anything as Frisbees!!!) or, if it is something with personal information on it that I've burned to transfer between computers...but then I learned that's really hard to go around simply breaking it with your hands(like nigh impossible in some ways, easier to use tools to smash it or something else and it still doesn't break to my satisfaction...which is why....)...and got smart and immediately bought a shredder which shreds them instead.

Edited December 9, 2011 by greylord

[Malcador]

No, I'm not going to stop bashing scumbag thieves just like I won't stop bashing scumbag murdfers or scumbag filthy lying politiians. They're scumbags. Plain and simple.

 

And, the ludicrious chidlish 'you smelled it you dealt it' accusation is hilarious. I've never pirated in my life. I've had people give me pirated goods and broke said CD right in front of them. I've gotten into arguments with pirates whoa re otherwise close to me (ie. family members and friends) because they started crying about me hurting their feelinsg when i call pirates scumbag thieves even thoguh that's exactly what you are when you steal.

 

Defenmding scumbag thieves makes you pathetic and to do so on a software developer forum is doubly pathetic espciially since support of piracy is technically 'against the rules' of the forums. As it shoudl be. Because, by defintion, pirates are evil. Selfish to the core. Scumbag thieves.

 

It's a waste of effort, maybe.

[Gorth]

As for the harsh language about people pirating games, it's pretty amusing

Why is that?

[Malcador]

Well, see above. That and, if you're going to post internet vitriol about people, might as well save it for truly scummy people - e.g. lady who scalded her baby to death then went shopping, etc.

[Volourn]

"Well, see above. That and, if you're going to post internet vitriol about people, might as well save it for truly scummy people - e.g. lady who scalded her baby to death then went shopping, etc."

 

Trust me.. the language I'd want to use about someone like her would not be allowed.

[Hurlshort]

Is there a reason we are supposed to handle pirates with kid gloves?

[Gorth]

Well, see above. That and, if you're going to post internet vitriol about people, might as well save it for truly scummy people - e.g. lady who scalded her baby to death then went shopping, etc.

She doesn't deserve vitriol and harsh language. More like removed permanently from society. Probably something involving padded walls.

 

I work in the software industry and consider myself blessed working with stuff that only fits a particular purpose. Usually tied very closely to corporate business processes and no two businesses are the same. Nobody pirates my stuff. That doesn't mean I can't relate to the sentiments of my colleagues who works with "shrink wrapped" products. They work long hour and holidays too, but get screwed over by pirates and in addition have to suffer mocking, juvenile insults and cajoling for the crime of trying to make a living by creating something. Why exactly those who seems to enjoy monkey style poo flinging should be excempt from contempt I don't understand.

[Giantevilhead]

I think that the people who pirate the most come from cultures that either don't have a very good conception of intellectual property and don't have any social stigmas toward piracy.

But social stigma usually results from harming economical interests of your society.

When all the software producers are from a country far away (and one that is clearly rich) it's rather hard to convince anyone to care about their business.

 

True, but once those countries start creating software of their own, their governments will be pressured to implement laws that prohibit piracy. Our game companies can speed up the process by doing more business in those countries. The fact that companies don't want to do business in those countries because of piracy ends up exacerbating the problem. Yes, they will suffer in the short term but once they start investing money in those countries, their governments will expend more effort trying to stamp out piracy. I'm sure that Wal-Mart lost a lot of money when they first opened supermarkets in China but over time, they stopped all the shoplifting, cart stealing, etc., and they're now making a huge profit.

Edited December 9, 2011 by Giantevilhead