New deficit reduction plan

[Wrath of Dagon]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101110/ap_on_...utting_deficits

 

Sounds good to me, probably doesn't have snowball's chance in hell in Congress, which means we're still doomed.

[Thorton_AP]

A trillion dollar deficit? Jebus.

[Monte Carlo]

Not that it was exactly a crowded field of talent, but you chose the most utterly unsuitable President for the crisis you find yourselves in.

 

"How's that touchy-hopey thing working out for ya?"

[Wrath of Dagon]

I think it's more like 1.6 trillion.

[Gfted1]

No sweat, we'll just "tax the rich" to cover this. Oh, and the TRILLION dollar UHC.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Not that it was exactly a crowded field of talent, but you chose the most utterly unsuitable President for the crisis you find yourselves in.

 

"How's that touchy-hopey thing working out for ya?"

Well, this is his chance to get behind it, and show what he's made of.

[Hiro Protagonist]

Just print more money to pay it back. Oh wait, you're already doing that.

 

Never seen the US$ go down so much in the last 30 years. Great time for us to buy stuff online from the US.

[Syraxis]

gradually raising the retirement age to 69

 

[Hurlshort]

No sweat, we'll just "tax the rich" to cover this. Oh, and the TRILLION dollar UHC.

 

Didn't a bunch of studies recently come in putting the Universal Health care costs much lower than expected? I want to say it was like 70 billion (which is huge, but way lower than what was originally bandied about.)

[Hiro Protagonist]

gradually raising the retirement age to 69

 

 

Wouldn't want to be in some industries like the building industry. Imagine being a brick layer or bathroom tiler in your 60s. Or even a courier driver delivering parcels in your 60s. I think you'll die before you retire.

[Gfted1]

gradually raising the retirement age to 69

 

*riots*

 

Didn't a bunch of studies recently come in putting the Universal Health care costs much lower than expected? I want to say it was like 70 billion (which is huge, but way lower than what was originally bandied about.)

 

So it will only cost $930 Billion? Whew.

 

Seriously though, it would be great if it all worked like it does on paper but you and I both know thats not how our government operates. I wouldnt be at all surprised to see the UHC wildly overbudget in under five years. This has the serious potential to bankrupt the US. Well, maybe it would be better to say it will greatly accelerate our inevitable bankruptcy.

 

I cant fathom how they are talking about tax CUTS. We should be increasing them if anything, in conjunction with drastically decreased government spending.

 

I think you'll die before you retire.

 

They are counting on that.

[Walsingham]

Gfted1: isn't that actually an argument in favour of fixing how your government works, not just one program?

[Hurlshort]

Health care is extremely broken in this country. I have no idea if the Universal Health Care program will be effective, but it would be nice to see both parties working on it instead of using it as a political platform.

 

I like this deficit reduction plan, by the way. If both sides are unhappy, somebody is doing something right. Obviously there is a lot going on there. I think people are making a bigger deal about the Social Security issue than is necessary, in reality if you are relying fully on Social Security as a retirement plan, you are already in trouble to begin with. 69 is when the full benefits kick in, which means if you want to retire at 60, you need a decent retirement plan to cover the gap.

[Moose]

It's a bit **** for them to rise the retirement age, when modern living is probably going to see us die younger than our grandparents.

Edited November 11, 2010 by Gorth
Bad Moose

[Humodour]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101110/ap_on_...utting_deficits

 

Sounds good to me, probably doesn't have snowball's chance in hell in Congress, which means we're still doomed.

 

This is actually exactly the type of policy America needs.

 

So I doubt it will pass in any recognisable form.

 

Also, can I just clarify a misconception in this thread: America does not have universal health care.

[Humodour]

I cant fathom how they are talking about tax CUTS. We should be increasing them if anything, in conjunction with drastically decreased government spending.

 

Wait, did I misread? I thought it said tax increases and spending cuts?

[Hurlshort]

Also, can I just clarify a misconception in this thread: America does not have universal health care.

 

My bad, Gftd called it a UHC and I kept saying it. I guess we can just call it Obama's Health Care plan.

 

Taxes are lower than they have been in 30 years, so yeah, I don't get how we can not raise them.

[Gfted1]

I cant fathom how they are talking about tax CUTS. We should be increasing them if anything, in conjunction with drastically decreased government spending.

 

Wait, did I misread? I thought it said tax increases and spending cuts?

 

I was referring to the "Bush era tax cuts" that are currently due to expire and are being considered for extension.

 

Also, can I just clarify a misconception in this thread: America does not have universal health care.

 

My bad, Gftd called it a UHC and I kept saying it. I guess we can just call it Obama's Health Care plan.

 

Whats the difference? Serious question.

[Hurlshort]

Universal Health Care would be completely government run and available to everyone, I would presume. Obama's health care is just covering the people who can't afford private health care, and making companies responsible for providing health care to all employees. It's a bit more complicated than all that, but that is putting it simply.

[Wrath of Dagon]

No sweat, we'll just "tax the rich" to cover this. Oh, and the TRILLION dollar UHC.

 

Didn't a bunch of studies recently come in putting the Universal Health care costs much lower than expected? I want to say it was like 70 billion (which is huge, but way lower than what was originally bandied about.)

If anything it's going to be more expensive. Are you thinking about the TARP?

 

And yes, Obamacare is supposed to be UHC, since the idea is to cover everyone. It's just not single payer (i.e. government) healthcare most liberals really wanted.

[Hurlshort]

I might have been thinking about TARP. Looking around, it says that the health care program would add 60 billion a year, but that is on top of the 2 trillion we already spend. Yikes. It's hard to even wrap my mind around these numbers.

[Guard Dog]

First off, Obamacare is not UHC. It does not provide healthcare to anyone. In REQUIRES that everyone purchase health insurance want it or not. Then it subsidizes the cost by allowing lower income people to purchase insurance at a discount from the soon-to-be created "exchanges'. To pay for that the government raises fees and taxes on insurance companies forcing them do drive up premium costs on their regular paying subscribers causing the costs of HC to triple for the regular working Joe who has a group policy through their employer. Since the government now requires the HC insurers to cover every ailment from birth to death and allows kids to stay on until their 26th birthday most (including mine) have doubled or tripled their deductables and instituted caps on benefits. So the working Joe is paying double or triple for half the coverage. And if you choose not to purchase insurance (remember there used to be a word "choose" back when this was a free country?) then the IRS will come after you and throw you in jail, enslave your children, burn your house and murder your pets and all the other things they do so well. Actually I think it's just some hefty fines but you get the idea. Wow, isn't this great? Thanks Obama, Pelosi, and Reid. Next time you want to help us why don't you really help us...and don't.

 

Now as for taxation,if you tax something more, you will have less of it. Increase capital gains taxes you will get less investment. Less investing meant companies have less capital to run their business. That leads to retrenchment, which leads to layoffs, which leads to unemployment. If you increase personal income taxes then people have less money, less money means less spending power so they buy less. That means companies sell fewer products, earn less revenue, and pay less taxes because taxes are based on revenue. To grow the economy you need to encourage people to buy and sell. As the eceonmy grows the government revenue grows beacuse transactions are taxed, sales are taxed, revenue is taxed, value is taxed, etc. Rasing the tax rates on all of these things causes their volume to go down. It is self defeating. Lowering the rate causes the volume of these things to go up so even though the government gets less from each taxable action there are many many more actions to get revenue from. It's called the Laffer curve, it is not new.

 

I realize some of you are incapable of cramming a viewpoint you have knee-jerk hostility to into your narrow little minds but if if you ever care to expand your knowledge I reccomend reading "Basic Economics: A Common Sense Guide to the Economy" y Thomas Sowell. He is without question one of the greatest economic minds of our time. Warning, for those of you who think Keynes was God, your head will explode if you read this book.

[Walsingham]

Warning, for those of you who think Keynes was God, your head will explode if you read this book.

 

I will keep that in mind for my internet streamed suicide.

[Atreides]

Reason we're working longer's cause we live longer. Gotta accumulate more to fund our longer expected retirement. Extending the retirement age helps both ways. Gets us saving longer and delays relying on savings. Course the markets wrecking havoc on the savings doesn't help either. Feel for those who have less as they need to start relying on it. Just illustrates that you should start moving your investments to less risky instruments as you approach retirement.

 

Sucks though.

[Walsingham]

My retirement plan revolves around sitting at a bar and snarling at impressionable whippersnappers who come up to me asking for my help on the grounds that I was 'the best'.