Poor Gun Authenticity

[dirtydogofspying]

I understand this isn't a game about gunplay, but it astounds me that so many details about the way firearms are implemented are just plain wrong.

 

For example, the UC .50 cal pistol is not a big, beefy gun. The actual in-game model looks like it's a Gsh-18, which is a 9mm pistol. Even if this is a "fictional" weapon created for the game, shouldn't a weapon that's supposed to shoot one of the most powerful loads for a handgun at least LOOK larger than the other pistols?

 

There's a ton of other stuff wrong too, things like subsonic rounds being magically "silent" in assault rifles, "chambers" holding extra rounds, and so on...not trying to nitpick here, but it honestly makes we wonder: 1) was it an intentional choice to get all of this stuff wrong, 2) did the designer not care, 3) was it an oversight by someone who just kind of generally cruised wikipedia and decided it didn't matter anyway?

 

Curious -- I still am greatly enjoying the game, but I'd enjoy it a little more if there was more veracity on the firearms!

[C2B]

I understand this isn't a game about gunplay, but it astounds me that so many details about the way firearms are implemented are just plain wrong.

 

For example, the UC .50 cal pistol is not a big, beefy gun. The actual in-game model looks like it's a Gsh-18, which is a 9mm pistol. Even if this is a "fictional" weapon created for the game, shouldn't a weapon that's supposed to shoot one of the most powerful loads for a handgun at least LOOK larger than the other pistols?

 

There's a ton of other stuff wrong too, things like subsonic rounds being magically "silent" in assault rifles, "chambers" holding extra rounds, and so on...not trying to nitpick here, but it honestly makes we wonder: 1) was it an intentional choice to get all of this stuff wrong, 2) did the designer not care, 3) was it an oversight by someone who just kind of generally cruised wikipedia and decided it didn't matter anyway?

 

Curious -- I still am greatly enjoying the game, but I'd enjoy it a little more if there was more veracity on the firearms!

 

It was intentional for gameplay. I'm pretty sure of that.

 

Though it would be nice if that stuff could be modded. Just hope with us that Obsidian decides to help its Mod Community.

[dirtydogofspying]

It was intentional for gameplay. I'm pretty sure of that.

 

Though it would be nice if that stuff could be modded. Just hope with us that Obsidian decides to help its Mod Community.

 

 

Oh, I get that, and to some extent I agree...but would it really be so hard to base it more in reality? I guess with some of the over-the-topness of the enemy spy design (O. D. and his "special moves" (no spoilers!) ) that's to be expected.

 

Hehe, yea I wouldn't object to a "gun-realism" mod...not sure how likely that is

[C2B]

It was intentional for gameplay. I'm pretty sure of that.

 

Though it would be nice if that stuff could be modded. Just hope with us that Obsidian decides to help its Mod Community.

 

 

Oh, I get that, and to some extent I agree...but would it really be so hard to base it more in reality? I guess with some of the over-the-topness of the enemy spy design (O. D. and his "special moves" (no spoilers!) ) that's to be expected.

 

Hehe, yea I wouldn't object to a "gun-realism" mod...not sure how likely that is

 

Well, its based on a gerne which is over the top anyway. Considering they originally introduced Dialogstances with Jack (I survive everything) Bauer, Jason (Look at me disappearing) Bourne and James Bond. Well that should tell you everything.

[razgriz_1400]

Doesn't help that their "Samael 9mm" is the FN Five-seveN pistol... not the best weapon around. I wind up running the Hamilton .45 since it's the M&P45 that Smith and Wesson makes or the "Ritterguppen 5.7" because it's a Glock. I'm just one of those nit-pickers, though.

[Amentep]

I understand this isn't a game about gunplay, but it astounds me that so many details about the way firearms are implemented are just plain wrong.

 

For example, the UC .50 cal pistol is not a big, beefy gun. The actual in-game model looks like it's a Gsh-18, which is a 9mm pistol. Even if this is a "fictional" weapon created for the game, shouldn't a weapon that's supposed to shoot one of the most powerful loads for a handgun at least LOOK larger than the other pistols?

 

There's a ton of other stuff wrong too, things like subsonic rounds being magically "silent" in assault rifles, "chambers" holding extra rounds, and so on...not trying to nitpick here, but it honestly makes we wonder: 1) was it an intentional choice to get all of this stuff wrong, 2) did the designer not care, 3) was it an oversight by someone who just kind of generally cruised wikipedia and decided it didn't matter anyway?

 

Curious -- I still am greatly enjoying the game, but I'd enjoy it a little more if there was more veracity on the firearms!

 

It was intentional for gameplay. I'm pretty sure of that.

 

Though it would be nice if that stuff could be modded. Just hope with us that Obsidian decides to help its Mod Community. >_

 

I think its intentional for gameplay to make each of the upgrades do something of import, but I also can't help but wonder if it was also to help further distance the guns from real-world ones (since I seem to recall there was a lot of talk about them not wanting to have to license from the manufacturers the real guns).

[zkylon]

It'd be kind of ironic for the developers of a game about weapon trafficking and evil PMCs to actually pay gun manufacturers for licenses

[unskilled-]

I understand this isn't a game about gunplay, but it astounds me that so many details about the way firearms are implemented are just plain wrong.

 

For example, the UC .50 cal pistol is not a big, beefy gun. The actual in-game model looks like it's a Gsh-18, which is a 9mm pistol. Even if this is a "fictional" weapon created for the game, shouldn't a weapon that's supposed to shoot one of the most powerful loads for a handgun at least LOOK larger than the other pistols?

 

There's a ton of other stuff wrong too, things like subsonic rounds being magically "silent" in assault rifles, "chambers" holding extra rounds, and so on...not trying to nitpick here, but it honestly makes we wonder: 1) was it an intentional choice to get all of this stuff wrong, 2) did the designer not care, 3) was it an oversight by someone who just kind of generally cruised wikipedia and decided it didn't matter anyway?

 

Curious -- I still am greatly enjoying the game, but I'd enjoy it a little more if there was more veracity on the firearms!

 

It was intentional for gameplay. I'm pretty sure of that.

 

Though it would be nice if that stuff could be modded. Just hope with us that Obsidian decides to help its Mod Community.

 

I think its intentional for gameplay to make each of the upgrades do something of import, but I also can't help but wonder if it was also to help further distance the guns from real-world ones (since I seem to recall there was a lot of talk about them not wanting to have to license from the manufacturers the real guns).

 

If that was the case they would have pulled a CS move; modeling all the guns to their real world specifications then renaming them as to avoid copyright laws.

[Zoraptor]

I was sure that 'unified ammo' was going to get a mention- 7.62NATO, 5.56 and 5.45 rifles all using the same rounds etc.

 

Personally, I was disappointed to find that drop on subsonic ammo wasn't modeled. I was so looking forward to another round of all the complaining Stalker got about having bad ballistics because bullets didn't act like laser beams and if you tried using a Groza or Vintorez at long range you'd end up shooting your target in the feet.

 

On the original question, I suspect (1) is the closest answer: ignoring 'reality' as a deliberate decision to allow for far more modifiable weapons than 'really' exist.

[unskilled-]

I was sure that 'unified ammo' was going to get a mention- 7.62NATO, 5.56 and 5.45 rifles all using the same rounds etc.

 

Personally, I was disappointed to find that drop on subsonic ammo wasn't modeled. I was so looking forward to another round of all the complaining Stalker got about having bad ballistics because bullets didn't act like laser beams and if you tried using a Groza or Vintorez at long range you'd end up shooting your target in the feet.

 

On the original question, I suspect (1) is the closest answer: ignoring 'reality' as a deliberate decision to allow for far more modifiable weapons than 'really' exist.

 

Well, the thing with STALKER was that there was, at times, a huge distance between you and your enemies, so naturally bullets would drop (loved that part too). AP's essentially a cooridor shooter and the distance between you and your enemies wouldnt have been great enough to even consider making the bullets drop realistically.

 

Even then, STALKER uses their own game engine to do that, while AP is running on a modified version of the Unreal 3 engine.

[Thorton_AP]

The game is pretty clearly set in an environment that isn't realistic.

 

I liked that the guns were only modeled aesthetically on real life counter parts, but were their own thing. It was fun to twink out my gun and do bizarre modifications for it that wouldn't necessarily be grounded in reality.

 

I know people like their gun porn, but you have to admit something like this is so trivial in a game that is so much more than the guns in it.

[unskilled-]

The game is pretty clearly set in an environment that isn't realistic.

 

I liked that the guns were only modeled aesthetically on real life counter parts, but were their own thing. It was fun to twink out my gun and do bizarre modifications for it that wouldn't necessarily be grounded in reality.

 

I know people like their gun porn, but you have to admit something like this is so trivial in a game that is so much more than the guns in it.

 

Like what? Hand to hand combat? Please.

 

Saying that this game is an environment that isn't realistic is a cheap cop out and also wrong in its entirety. Because if the game was set in an "unrealistic" environment, then why have it set in modern times with modern political intrigue and other such hoopla?

[Thorton_AP]

The game is pretty clearly set in an environment that isn't realistic.

 

I liked that the guns were only modeled aesthetically on real life counter parts, but were their own thing. It was fun to twink out my gun and do bizarre modifications for it that wouldn't necessarily be grounded in reality.

 

I know people like their gun porn, but you have to admit something like this is so trivial in a game that is so much more than the guns in it.

 

Like what? Hand to hand combat? Please.

Saying that this game is an environment that isn't realistic is a cheap cop out and also wrong in its entirety. Because if the game was set in an "unrealistic" environment, then why have it set in modern times with modern political intrigue and other such hoopla?

 

 

In this game, you can literally make yourself invisible. You can fire 5 shots instantaneously from your pistol. You can slow down time for other people while you run around and beat them up.

 

It's not a copout, it's the truth. This game does things in the extreme. It's meant to be played around with and have fun. I love chainshot because I feel badass when using it. But it's wholly unrealistic. I enjoy sneaking around invisible, KOing people right in front of others because I feel badass when doing it (though Shadow Operative is a bit too ridiculous). Your assault rifle can only fire in 3 round bursts. SMGs only come in pairs, and can limitless magazines for a short duration of time (after which you MUST reload, even if you didn't fire a round).

 

I like the weapon mods, even if they are not realistic. I don't bother myself with "Whoa, this gun is supposed to shoot a .50 round... the picture of it doesn't seem appropriate." That's just falling into Gun Porn and nitpicking minute details.

 

But contrary to you, I am absolutely not wrong in my entirety. This game IS over the top.

 

 

The game may have a story that is plausible and applicable to real time, but the game is no where near realistic.

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

The only problem I have with this game regarding guns is that there was no revolver.

[unskilled-]

The game is pretty clearly set in an environment that isn't realistic.

 

I liked that the guns were only modeled aesthetically on real life counter parts, but were their own thing. It was fun to twink out my gun and do bizarre modifications for it that wouldn't necessarily be grounded in reality.

 

I know people like their gun porn, but you have to admit something like this is so trivial in a game that is so much more than the guns in it.

 

Like what? Hand to hand combat? Please.

Saying that this game is an environment that isn't realistic is a cheap cop out and also wrong in its entirety. Because if the game was set in an "unrealistic" environment, then why have it set in modern times with modern political intrigue and other such hoopla?

 

 

In this game, you can literally make yourself invisible. You can fire 5 shots instantaneously from your pistol. You can slow down time for other people while you run around and beat them up.

 

It's not a copout, it's the truth. This game does things in the extreme. It's meant to be played around with and have fun. I love chainshot because I feel badass when using it. But it's wholly unrealistic. I enjoy sneaking around invisible, KOing people right in front of others because I feel badass when doing it (though Shadow Operative is a bit too ridiculous). Your assault rifle can only fire in 3 round bursts. SMGs only come in pairs, and can limitless magazines for a short duration of time (after which you MUST reload, even if you didn't fire a round).

 

I like the weapon mods, even if they are not realistic. I don't bother myself with "Whoa, this gun is supposed to shoot a .50 round... the picture of it doesn't seem appropriate." That's just falling into Gun Porn and nitpicking minute details.

 

But contrary to you, I am absolutely not wrong in my entirety. This game IS over the top.

 

 

The game may have a story that is plausible and applicable to real time, but the game is no where near realistic.

 

Yeah, sorry about that.. you're right about the game doing things in the extreme, which would lead to an unrealistic feel about it, regardless of setting.

 

The weapon mods are "realistic" in a sense that it is something a person could do with his or her weapon if they were a qualified weaponsmith. I would gather that the majority of stuff you can buy for your gun in game is something you could probably do to a real gun in real life.

 

I suppose the point I am trying to make is that either the developers were pushed for time, and thus felt that while certain guns are different, they should all use the same ammo. Or they got lazy and didn't feel like having to code in different ammo for your guns.. it could go either way although I'm leaning towards more being pressed for time.

[Thorton_AP]

I don't think it has much to do with being lazy nor pressed for time (well, everything is always pressed for time as you have to decide to stop adding features at some point). For the context of this game, I don't think that there'd be much value added for differentiating between different ammunition types of similar guns.

 

The idea of weapons having shared ammo for similar weapon types happens in a lot of games in my experience.

[dirtydogofspying]

Some good debate here, thanks for not trolling the topic

 

I don't think the game suffered seriously from its lack of authenticity, and I totally get the over-the-top aspect(I did mention the "super spies" after all).

 

That was a good point about wanting to distance themselves from real-world weapon manufacturers, although why not ditch reality at that point and make up your own guns completely? I would find it hard to believe that weapon artists couldn't just make up completely original guns.

 

I found it weird that there's all this reference to "real world" stuff but at some indeterminate point it all becomes make-believe -- I have no problem (at all) with make-believe (I love the Mass Effect series). There seemed to be some totally arbitrary lines about what aspect of firearms were true to reality, and I guess that's where I was a little disappointed.

 

PS. What makes it "gun porn" to want some realism in your selection and upgrades of firearms? Is it "stealth porn" to think that Shadow Operative is O.P.? hehe -- I'm just kidding, not trying to derail my own thread.

[razgriz_1400]

Regarding the UC .50: there is a cartridge out there that is .50 cal and doesn't require a huge pistol like the Deagle. It's the .50 GI made by Guncrafter Industires; bascically it's a typical .45 round fattened up to .50 caliber and will fit in any pistol frame big enough for the .45. Not exactly an efficient design, though. I would have liked to have seen the Samael 9mm look more like the Israeli Jericho 941 (aka Baby Eagle) instead of the Five-seveN pistol, but that's just me being nitpicky.

 

As you can tell, I'm a bit of a gun nut, and not ashamed to admit it.