company haters

[fuZZ]

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=249012

 

WTF even an in house developer hates the game???

 

comments on this obsidian???

[Reg1.1]

Just as I thought, I know that Obsidian aspire to quallity, this (if true) just proves that the game industry needs to take it's head out of it's ass.

[HoonDing]

An article about a claim made by an unverified source. Real Pullitzer price material right there.

[C2B]

Not to mention we don't even know what the guy (if) even worked on. He could be some low level employee who thinks he knows everything better.

 

It's also more than dickish to his former colleagues and workplace.

[WorstUsernameEver]

Yup, it's far from confirmed that the 'a tired dev' comment comes from a true developer, but to be perfectly honest, EVERY article mentions this point, and if it's a troll, I must admit is one of the best trolls I've ever seen, since he got Chris Parker's name right, defends the team, etc.

 

I'm inclined to believe that it really comes from someone who worked on the game, though, that doesn't really mean much.

Thinking about it, the way he talks about the game, it's almost like he was one of the 'real designer' he mentions, bitter about the fact that his suggestion for the game got (probably) rejected.

 

The point I'm trying to make is that we'll never know the truth about this game's development cycle for at least some years, so it's pointless to jump to conclusions.

 

Also, note that some other people, like Alvin, seem very positive and proud about the game they've worked on. Granted, he could be lying, but I don't see why he should.

[C2B]

The point I'm trying to make is that we'll never know the truth about this game's development cycle for at least some years, so it's pointless to jump to conclusions.

 

True, though it is to expect that some sort of drama always happens. Its just a normal workplace like any other.

 

It's still not nice to attack them, though.

[WorstUsernameEver]

The point I'm trying to make is that we'll never know the truth about this game's development cycle for at least some years, so it's pointless to jump to conclusions.

 

True, though it is to expect that some sort of drama always happens. Its just a normal workplace like any other.

 

It's still not nice to attack them, though.

 

Keep in mind that we're always reading this dev 'response' but who has read all the comments?

I have the feeling that he was angered because the comments called the programmers behind the game lazy, hacks, or similar, come on, he even commented about how they almost never eat outside of the studio!

Of course, that doesn't prove that the comment really comes to a dev, but, let's just say that it at least proves that this was a very elaborate troll.

[DataDay]

Believe it or not, developers are people too. When you spend a few years slaving over a project only to have it release with negative reviews and user comments, even a developer does a face palm (often resulting in a post or two just to explain what went wrong). Sadly it is a huge problem when development teams are not allowed to function because of one or two feature creeps, which sadly, can even be found with high producer positions. I can believe that Sega wasnt the best publisher in this case either. I don't know if any of you read the entire comment, but the person does know the eating habits of the working dev.

 

I suppose the best way to read the comment, which I am inclined to believe is coming from someone in house, is that this game was a disappointment for the team as well. That it was the victim of upper management and a bumbling publisher. Most importantly, that their other projects are going better than they would have hoped. At this point, you just have to hope the same mistakes don't happen again.

Edited June 2, 2010 by DataDay

[C2B]

I suppose the best way to read the comment, which I am inclined to believe is coming from someone in house, is that this game was a disappointment for the team as well. That it was the victim of upper management and a bumbling publisher. Most importantly, that their other projects are going better than they would have hoped. At this point, you just have to hope the same mistakes don't happen again.

 

Well, I still isn't a valid excuse. I don't go around to the customers of my former employer and tell them "Work sucked, don't buy the product". (And I really hated one. Believe me)

 

It's an enormusly dickish move even when the reason behind it is understandable.

 

 

And from the comments I read from the designers (Including from twitter and a guy at the something awful forums) they seem rather proud of it and what they have done.

 

And why "as well". It wasn't a disappointment for everyone. There are many people who are happy how it turned out and love playing it.

[edgarcuk]

Agree, it is neither professional nor ethical to talk in that manner about your former employee. Things happen or crap happens, but still venting your frustration and anger in a public forum is not the place... and also it is not the time, when there are many over critical reviews.

 

What really impress me is why the "online press" gives credit to such comments from an unreliable source, it is more like sticking the finger to a wound... not very professional.

 

Before such a coverage, I used to think that harsh reviews were too hard on this game, but supporting those reviews by those developer's comments, is going too far... as I said before, why there isn't coverage on what it is said in others companies on regards buggy games (for example Bionware on DAO for xbox)?... if there was fairness, I wouldn't be impress but it is quite clear that the "games press" is rotten, not a reliable source of information as most of the people here know.

 

However it has damaged the game... if that was the main objective...

Edited June 2, 2010 by edgarcuk

[WorstUsernameEver]

I don't think anyone argued that what that dev did was professional, but it seems that, since some of you like the game a lot, you're totally discarding the possibility of it being true.

I think I've seen a lot of other anonymous comments and similar posted on video games sites and blogs, so it was pretty obvious that this would end up in a couple of news post pretty quickly.

Is it ethical? Actually, if I were a journalist, I'd have posted exactly as they did : explaining that it comes from an anonymous source, that it's not necessarily true, but that it also has a bit more substance than your usual troll post (otherwise, why would I be posting it?).

Then, obviously, Jim 'toughguy' Sterling goes with 'itsucksitsucksitsucks' but then, again, that was to be expected to.

 

Is there a damage campaign against the game?

Honestly, I doubt it.

Maybe Alpha Protocol is a more acceptable target to bash than some other games, that's true, but I doubt that reviewers want to damage the game to pursue some hidden agenda.

[Kasabian]

This was mentioned on a previous topic on the same subject.

 

I say as I said then, "alleged and anonymous" could be anyone saying it, you, me my pet dog. If this constitutes as gaming journalism, then lets hope they do not step up and cover real world news, or if they do, I recommend working for The Sport or The Sun, at least then they do not have to back up their "journalism" with actual facts, which is what they are doing now.

Edited June 2, 2010 by Kasabian

[C2B]

I don't think anyone argued that what that dev did was professional, but it seems that, since some of you like the game a lot, you're totally discarding the possibility of it being true.

 

With no word did we say it couldn't be true (at least in the last few posts)

 

Hell, I don't think development on ANY game goes without drama.

 

 

And the problem isn't a campagin AGAINST Alpha Protocol (Honestly, I would accept any score between 75-85). It's that in comparison to other overhyped games (including RDR, Fallout 3,.... list goes on) problems are blown out of proportion. Especially since in these games similiar problems are considerd "minor".

 

 

Well, anyway I'm happy with the reviewers in my country. (Which were all around ~80)

[Alpha]

old news.

[Bos_hybrid]

Before such a coverage, I used to think that harsh reviews were too hard on this game, but supporting those reviews by those developer's comments, is going too far... as I said before, why there isn't coverage on what it is said in others companies on regards buggy games (for example Bionware on DAO for xbox)?... if there was fairness, I wouldn't be impress but it is quite clear that the "games press" is rotten, not a reliable source of information as most of the people here know.

 

However it has damaged the game... if that was the main objective...

 

Indeed, I'm positive G.I.T(Game Industry Terrorists), had a meeting before the release of AP and decided it would recive average reviews, therefore possibly damaging sales.

[edgarcuk]

I don't think anyone argued that what that dev did was professional, but it seems that, since some of you like the game a lot, you're totally discarding the possibility of it being true.

I think I've seen a lot of other anonymous comments and similar posted on video games sites and blogs, so it was pretty obvious that this would end up in a couple of news post pretty quickly.

Is it ethical? Actually, if I were a journalist, I'd have posted exactly as they did : explaining that it comes from an anonymous source, that it's not necessarily true, but that it also has a bit more substance than your usual troll post (otherwise, why would I be posting it?).

Then, obviously, Jim 'toughguy' Sterling goes with 'itsucksitsucksitsucks' but then, again, that was to be expected to.

 

Is there a damage campaign against the game?

Honestly, I doubt it.

Maybe Alpha Protocol is a more acceptable target to bash than some other games, that's true, but I doubt that reviewers want to damage the game to pursue some hidden agenda.

 

I like the game but that doesn't mean I totally discard the possibility, the point I was making is that it is not good that someone who makes such comments, true or untrue, this shows a lack of respect and professionalism... perhaps what the developer is saying is true, but there are places and times to do that i.e. you can vent your comments in house, the dirty laundry is washed home... besides, if you want to speak the true the most normal is that you give your personal details, not under an anonymous or avatar... this is more like a cheap gossip covered by the "journalism" a la Sun (at least the Sun is honest crap)

 

As I said before, if this were a everyday thing, I wouldn't be impressed... but so far, it is the first time that after all that criticism this "person" comes and do such comments, why it didn't happen on the days of KOTOR2? when the game is regarded as unfinished...

 

I don't disregard the flaws in AP (graphics, combat and AI), I believe if AP would have got ME2's graphics, combat and AI, it would have been a real model game perhaps like Demon's Soul.

 

Hidden agenda or not, it does affect the sales, many people who was eager to buy the game have been put off, others, like ourselves, just ignored those reviews and gave a chance... but without those over critical reviews and the "tired developer" comments, many people would buy the game.

Edited June 2, 2010 by edgarcuk

[WorstUsernameEver]

As I said before, if this were a everyday thing, I wouldn't be impressed... but so far it is the first time that after all that criticism this "person" comes and do such comments, why it didn't happen on the days of KOTOR2? when the game is regarded as unfinished...

 

Maybe he wasn't on the team during the KOTOR2 days.

Maybe he thought that the game turned out well in spite of the limited timeframe, so he didn't feel like he had to defend the team. Maybe he's still bitter at Chris Parker for scrapping his many suggestions to fix the gameplay.

Who knows?

I'm not arguing that what the guy did was professional or even just intelligent.. I'm just arguing that it could be true, and given the possibility, I, as a journalist, would publish it in a news.

As simple as that.

As for 'hurting sales', let's be honest, I doubt that this comment will hurt sales, if anything, it will be the major gaming sites review that are lukewarm at best that will hurt the game sales.

[edgarcuk]

As for 'hurting sales', let's be honest, I doubt that this comment will hurt sales, if anything, it will be the major gaming sites review that are lukewarm at best that will hurt the game sales.

 

Indeed... so far I've seen people put off without even try the game, but I've seen that perhaps 7 out of 10 who gave the game a try, to be pleased with the game... if Obsidian deliver patches in time, many people will be buying the game onwards

[C2B]

As I said before, if this were a everyday thing, I wouldn't be impressed... but so far it is the first time that after all that criticism this "person" comes and do such comments, why it didn't happen on the days of KOTOR2? when the game is regarded as unfinished...

 

Maybe he wasn't on the team during the KOTOR2 days.

Maybe he thought that the game turned out well in spite of the limited timeframe, so he didn't feel like he had to defend the team. Maybe he's still bitter at Chris Parker for scrapping his many suggestions to fix the gameplay.

Who knows?

I'm not arguing that what the guy did was professional or even just intelligent.. I'm just arguing that it could be true, and given the possibility, I, as a journalist, would publish it in a news.

As simple as that.

As for 'hurting sales', let's be honest, I doubt that this comment will hurt sales, if anything, it will be the major gaming sites review that are lukewarm at best that will hurt the game sales.

 

That's a lot of maybes and a lot of speculation.

The problem with speculation is, what you seem to ignore, that it can easily manipulate people.

Thats also how an image of Obsidian comes into peoples minds that doesn't have to be true.

That IS dangerous for a company. Regardless of the topic.

 

And I don't think it should be in a magazine because that is on the level on any sensational paper.

 

 

 

Also for the third time. The world isn't just america. If you believe it or not. Most european reviewers gave it favorable reviews and I can see it sell well, at least over here.

Edited June 2, 2010 by C2B

[WorstUsernameEver]

That's a lot of maybes and a lot of speculation.

The problem with speculation is, what you seem to ignore, that it can easily manipulate people.

Thats also how an image of Obsidian comes into peoples minds that doesn't have to be true.

This is dangerous. Regardless of the topic.

 

And I don't think it should be in a magazine because that is on the level on any sensational paper.

 

 

 

Also for the third time. The world isn't just america. If you believe it or not. Most european reviewers gave it favorable reviews and I can see it sell well, at least over here.

 

You're awfully defensive, here, so let's to reply in a calmer tone.

 

Yeah, there's a lot of maybe and a lot of speculations.

But you are the first to complain that the guy didn't post the same about KOTORII without even knowing the circumstances.

The image that comes into people's mind of Obsidian? Yeah, it's that of a buggy games developer.

Not a totally undeserved one, but also one that doesn't take into account the general bugginess of other AAA RPG developers like Bethesda (Fallout 3 was a nightmare made of stuttering and crashes on PC, and as far as I've heard, Oblivion shared the same problems).

 

The world isn't america? Oh my, never knew about that!

Guess I never noticed I live outside of the USA, .

And yeah, I know reviews on european mags were generally above average. I have to wonder, though, if Alpha Protocol's target market was the niche/RPG enthusiast kind of market that praised the game.

And note, again, that I mentioned 'major gaming sites', those like IGN and Gamespot. And yeah, my feeling is that, like it or not, they do have a large base and their reviews are quite influent. How much? That I don't know.

 

I'm simply going by facts, I haven't played the game, I can't say if those reviews are undeserved or not, I can't say how much I like the writing, I can't say if the action mechanics grab me.

I also have personally enjoyed action RPG with terrible combat before (Vampire : Bloodlines spring to mind) so it's actually probable that I will enjoy the game.

[Oner]

All I'm going to say is this: I studied German and/yet one of the first things we were taught was rhetoric AKA how to manipulate people/opinions in speeches and essays.

 

Besides, it sounds plausible..why? Because he mentions stuff like Chris Parker being a producer for the game? Everyone who saw a dev diary knows this.

 

It may very well be written by a real (ex-)employee, but shouldn't s/he be very bitter and angry to do this? Angry people are biased and they blame the person they are the most furious at, don't tell me no one here ever did this to one person when they were raging. I know I did.

[WorstUsernameEver]

Besides, it sounds plausible..why? Because he mentions stuff like Chris Parker being a producer for the game? Everyone who saw a dev diary knows this.

 

Sounds plausible because he knows more about a production cycle of a game and the team habits than most of your trolls.

Doesn't really mean it's true, and that's obvious for anyone who has a brain.

Now that you make me think about it, most of the people who comment on the type of sites that posted the news, don't have a brain , but I don't think that's the article writers' fault.

[Oner]

Sounds plausible because he knows more about a production cycle of a game and the team habits than most of your trolls.

You're not in the industry IIRc, yet you can verify the accuracy of his knowledge? That kinda undermines it, don't ya think?

And if he is a real developer...he may just as well be a trolling..I dunno, Blizzard employee. It's not like game devs are saints either. **** do good jobs too, (un)fortunately.

[WorstUsernameEver]

Sounds plausible because he knows more about a production cycle of a game and the team habits than most of your trolls.

You're not in the industry IIRc, yet you can verify the accuracy of his knowledge? That kinda undermines it, don't ya think?

And if he is a real developer...he may just as well be a trolling..I dunno, Blizzard employee. It's not like game devs are saints either. **** do good jobs too, (un)fortunately.

 

Let's just say I used a source to verify its plausibility.

And yeah, as I've already said, that doesn't make it 100% true, because there still is the possibility of a very elaborated troll.

It's just that I can't see a reason why someone would troll like that.

Then again, trolls are unpredictable and totally out of my reach when it comes to understandable motivations.

[Oner]

Then again, trolls are unpredictable and totally out of my reach when it comes to understandable motivations.

Now you're starting to think like me.

Which would make you a horrible freak of nature, so change your ways while you can, fool!