Would it be accurate to say that this game is like Mass Effect...

[Orogun01]

I think there are some similarities to Mass Effect, but I don't think that's a bad thing. The combat style seems similar, although more determined by your character skills.

 

Basically it seems like a more RPG Heavy Mass Effect. There are some other differences, and I think the writing and choices/consequences will be significantly improved, but I don't think the comparison is that far off. Especially at first glance.

 

Both are different beasts as they try to do different things.

Really?! So considering that ME's combat is similar to Gears of Wars(which is one of the most copied third person shooter mechanics in recent years) and that Gears of Wars was inspired by RE4. So ME=RE4, right?

 

Come on man! Give me something more definitive that a passed down mechanic that every action game uses now day.

[Thorton_AP]

Why do you seem to take offense to the fact that I see it as having similarities to ME? I have not played Gears of War, nor have I played Resident Evil 4.

 

 

I consider my impression to be a positive aspect for Alpha Protocol. You obviously don't share my perspective, and that's fine. No need to make a big deal about it.

 

I liked Mass Effect. I think that at a quick glance, there are apparent similarities to it in Alpha Protocol. I don't consider this a bad thing or a sleight on Alpha Protocol.

Edited May 7, 2010 by Thorton_AP

[Orogun01]

Why do you seem to take offense to the fact that I see it as having similarities to ME? I have not played Gears of War, nor have I played Resident Evil 4.

I don't take offense. Ever.

I consider my impression to be a positive aspect for Alpha Protocol. You obviously don't share my perspective, and that's fine. No need to make a big deal about it.

It's only a positive aspect if you like ME. If dialog is as deep as ME i'm burning this game.

I liked Mass Effect. I think that at a quick glance, there are apparent similarities to it in Alpha Protocol. I don't consider this a bad thing or a sleight on Alpha Protocol.

The only reason that the comparison was ever drawn is that Obsidian has been making BW sequels for the past 5 years. Now they try to do an action shooter RPG with cinematic conversations that has nothing to do with ME and everyone thinks that they are copying BW.

[Thorton_AP]

It's only a positive aspect if you like ME. If dialog is as deep as ME i'm burning this game.

 

I don't recall stating that I felt Alpha Protocol resembled Mass Effect in terms of depth of dialogue (because I have not experienced the depth of dialogue). Though speaking of dialogue, going with an intention based paraphrase system, instead of full lines of dialogue, would be a similarity.

 

It also makes sense for them to do so because they want to keep the intensity of conversation high, while also providing a cinematic experience (something I also compare with Mass Effect).

 

The only reason that the comparison was ever drawn is that Obsidian has been making BW sequels for the past 5 years.

 

I make the comparison because I see it that way. Not because Obsidian made sequels to BioWare games. Please do not make assumptions

 

 

I don't take offense. Ever.

 

You're awfully defensive then, towards someone that sees similarities between another game. It's like I've insulted your baby or something. Heck, the fact that I said I find similarities, you felt compelled to illustrate to me that those attributes could be ascribed towards any game. Seems pretty clear to me that you feel offended that someone would compare Alpha Protocol to Mass Effect, and are doing whatever you can to ensure that other people do not also see that there are similarities.

 

At no point have I said that Alpha Protocol is of the same quality as Mass Effect. It's impossible for me to know that at this stage. You seem to be concerned because you didn't like Mass Effect's quality, and seem to feel that if you're not actively disagreeing with those that see things differently than you, then it's like you're admitting that Alpha Protocol will be of the same quality as Mass Effect or something.

 

I find your behaviour very baffling to be honest.

Edited May 8, 2010 by Thorton_AP

[Tigranes]

I think it's maybe easy to become defensive about the whole comparison business when you follow the game for a while - you start to hear about the comparisons at every opportunity, then some people just use it to judge AP by ME's standards - which isn't the fault of Obsid or Bio.

 

In the end, I hope that the game is so good, the silly comparisons are over with and we can just talk about AP.

[Niten_Ryu]

Would it be accurate to say that this game is like Mass Effect... Except it takes place in the present?

 

Yes. And that's not a bad thing. It's not complite clone, but rather similar to what Fallout was to Arcanum. Obviously different games with different game mechanics, but still enough similarities so that latter game probably wouldn't exist in current form without the first game.

[Orogun01]

I don't recall stating that I felt Alpha Protocol resembled Mass Effect in terms of depth of dialogue (because I have not experienced the depth of dialogue). Though speaking of dialogue, going with an intention based paraphrase system, instead of full lines of dialogue, would be a similarity.

I thought the same at first, but after a second look you realize that the response limit time and the fact that you can't go back make the dialog system less broken than ME. I remember the many time that a sentence was out of place or felt a little vague because there was no progression on the dialog.

It also makes sense for them to do so because they want to keep the intensity of conversation high, while also providing a cinematic experience (something I also compare with Mass Effect).

I agree, the espionage world is know for intensity and information plays a big part. So it makes sense that they would have this dialog system. At the same time it is a little suspicious that they tried this after ME was released, following with the tradition of continuing BW games but sporting a new story at the same time.

 

I make the comparison because I see it that way. Not because Obsidian made sequels to BioWare games. Please do not make assumptions

I do not refer to you only, but to the consensus that plagues reviewers.

 

 

You're awfully defensive then, towards someone that sees similarities between another game. It's like I've insulted your baby or something. Heck, the fact that I said I find similarities, you felt compelled to illustrate to me that those attributes could be ascribed towards any game. Seems pretty clear to me that you feel offended that someone would compare Alpha Protocol to Mass Effect, and are doing whatever you can to ensure that other people do not also see that there are similarities.

 

At no point have I said that Alpha Protocol is of the same quality as Mass Effect. It's impossible for me to know that at this stage. You seem to be concerned because you didn't like Mass Effect's quality, and seem to feel that if you're not actively disagreeing with those that see things differently than you, then it's like you're admitting that Alpha Protocol will be of the same quality as Mass Effect or something.

 

I find your behaviour very baffling to be honest.

 

This is one of those cases where the wording and the sentiment fall apart, since there is no effective way to express emotion and intonation through written word.

It is not that I am admitting to anything, but my main fear is that the game will be treated with the same lightness of ME. The dialog of ME has been characterized as comic book at best, I do not want AP to be like those 60's spy flicks with the whole cheesy one liners and shallow dialog.

[Thorton_AP]

If you don't feel there are similarities, then you don't feel that there are similarities.

 

I definitely hope that AP is a kickass game and I think it's shaping up nicely.

[Taiko]

Do you mean that the game will have bugger all content, over-blown cut-scenes every thirty seconds, boring linear design and a piss weak story where choices have no real impact. God I hope not.

Edited May 9, 2010 by Taiko

[HoonDing]

It is not that I am admitting to anything, but my main fear is that the game will be treated with the same lightness of ME. The dialog of ME has been characterized as comic book at best, I do not want AP to be like those 60's spy flicks with the whole cheesy one liners and shallow dialog.

Maybe the game will have a more light-hearted tone if one picks solely James Bond style dialogue options, and feel more 'serious' if one sticks to Jason Bourne or Jack Bauer?

[WorstUsernameEver]

What we've seen right now hints at an healthy mix between spy flicks trope and a serious storyline.

As for Mass Effect, I've always felt Bioware did a disservice to the setting by introducing the 'Reaper' plot.

You have galacy politics, you are pretty much a licensed cowboy cop for the Council, all that racial tension, disparity etc....

and instead on playing on that you introduce Mecha-Cthulhu.

Meh.

[Raithe]

Can you just imagine if it comes out with the dialogue like NOLF's?

[WorstUsernameEver]

Can you just imagine if it comes out with the dialogue like NOLF's?

 

It could actually be an awesome game, but it doesn't look like Obsidian is trying to strike that tone.

[Raithe]

Can you just imagine if it comes out with the dialogue like NOLF's?

 

It could actually be an awesome game, but it doesn't look like Obsidian is trying to strike that tone.

 

Maybe that could be the dlc component.

[WorstUsernameEver]

I agree, the espionage world is know for intensity and information plays a big part. So it makes sense that they would have this dialog system. At the same time it is a little suspicious that they tried this after ME was released, following with the tradition of continuing BW games but sporting a new story at the same time.

 

Are you serious here?

I'm pretty sure they also said that the Dialogue Stance System was designed by Brian Mitsoda, and it has practically been in every build of the game..

 

I probably said it other times, but it also reminds more of Fahrenheit than Mass Effect as far as dialogue system go.

[Orogun01]

I agree, the espionage world is know for intensity and information plays a big part. So it makes sense that they would have this dialog system. At the same time it is a little suspicious that they tried this after ME was released, following with the tradition of continuing BW games but sporting a new story at the same time.

 

Are you serious here?

I'm pretty sure they also said that the Dialogue Stance System was designed by Brian Mitsoda, and it has practically been in every build of the game..

 

I probably said it other times, but it also reminds more of Fahrenheit than Mass Effect as far as dialogue system go.

I actually am, there is no denying all the sequels. Maybe the Dialog Stance is not a rip off from ME but the fact that this game comes out after ME can be looked at the wrong way. Even if they did not, thus the Obsidian-BW connection strikes back.

[Oner]

I don't see how ME's dialogue system is any different from earlier RPGs, aside from being more organized.

[Starwars]

It really isn't anything new when you look at the mechanics. I mean, Blade Runner has a keyword system and speaking main character like that as well for example. I guess the thing they made it new and flashy was that they pushed for a more cinematic vibe.

 

I don't really view the Dialogue Stance System as something innovative either, but I think it's far more fitting than the ME system for a cinematic approach. I don't think the Mass Effect system pushed that design particularly far, and I don't feel the pay-off was worth it in terms of losing the "full dialogue options on screen" approach.

 

Mind you, I'm not convinced personally that I'll love the DSS either, but it seems to me that it's a much better designed system for a cinematic game, with the whole making choices as you go along (keywords can be read much faster).

 

But yep, there will be (and has been for that matter) many, many, many people pointing out comparisons to Mass Effect and how OEI jumped on that bandwagon etc. There are similarities of course but it kinda annoys me that people aren't able to see how much of a difference there is between the two dialogue systems for example, the gameplay in conversations alone will end up being vastly different from the design decision of having the flowing dialogues.

[Thorton_AP]

It really isn't anything new when you look at the mechanics. I mean, Blade Runner has a keyword system and speaking main character like that as well for example. I guess the thing they made it new and flashy was that they pushed for a more cinematic vibe.

 

For contemporary RPGs, it was a shift away from the full lines of dialogue that had become pretty common. It's not new, but it was different compared to most recent RPGs.

[WorstUsernameEver]

It really isn't anything new when you look at the mechanics. I mean, Blade Runner has a keyword system and speaking main character like that as well for example. I guess the thing they made it new and flashy was that they pushed for a more cinematic vibe.

 

For contemporary RPGs, it was a shift away from the full lines of dialogue that had become pretty common. It's not new, but it was different compared to most recent RPGs.

 

Gothic already used the 'streamlined sentences' back in the day.

There wasn't a wheel or any cinematic presentation anyway.

I don't know, the dialogue wheel was mainly a marketing gimmick, I don't believe there's seriously someone who considers that an innovation if we're excluding some deluded marketing guys journalists...

[Thorton_AP]

I remember reading fan reviews of Dragon Age that complained about the wheel's absence though :\

 

 

I haven't played Gothic. It wasn't really very big in North America. At least I don't think so.

[Orogun01]

I remember reading fan reviews of Dragon Age that complained about the wheel's absence though :\

 

 

I haven't played Gothic. It wasn't really very big in North America. At least I don't think so.

Figures, just another reason to keep Biowarians away no account for taste. It would had completely ruined the Feng Shuei of DA:O

[Tigranes]

Gothic is a big game and a well known franchise, even if it isn't as 'massive' as Oblivion or Mass Effect. It doesn't matter, to be honest. If you sell enough for the franchise to go on and the developers to get backing, that's all you want, as a fan.

 

Anyway, can't say it's a big deal. Dialogue wheel, dialogue tree. As long as it suits the game and doesn't compromise quality.

[Thorton_AP]

I remember reading fan reviews of Dragon Age that complained about the wheel's absence though :\

 

 

I haven't played Gothic. It wasn't really very big in North America. At least I don't think so.

Figures, just another reason to keep Biowarians away no account for taste. It would had completely ruined the Feng Shuei of DA:O

 

 

Thanks, I appreciate being judged! :D

[Raithe]

Thanks, I appreciate being judged! :D