Fox does Republicans more harm than good

[Guard Dog]

Huh... well they still get stupidly large benefits for their ranks (automatic military promotion if you hit Eagle for example).

I never heard of that. Where did you get that one?

[Wrath of Dagon]

I'm sorry, but why can't somebody go after the Scouts? They're a state funded organization that A) Doesn't allow gay members B) Will deny membership to the children of Atheists and C) Has support of god in their friggin pledge. If a similar organization popped up that wasn't these things it'd probably be unable to gain the support needed, even if it had the EXACT SAME ranking system and badges, for the benefits that a Scout receives (particularly an Eagle). And actually, Billy-o called the ACLU facist for suing LA about taking a christian cross out of their seal. But still, facism is usually the exact opposite of the ACLU's MO, as in NO free speech, and only one religion is allowed to be represented, and your civil liberties are stomped on.

Your Wikipedia link said it was because of the Boy Scouts.

As to Gulags, HE USED THE EXACT WORD! Look for yourself!

Yes, he used that word, but then he describes what he meant, and it's not working people to death. At worst he probably doesn't know much about Soviet GULAGs. Anyway, anyone against the death penalty is a pinko leftist, not far right.

You mean other than the fact that he's openly supporting the teaching of intelligent design in schools as science (when there is nothing testable about a giant floating narcissist)? While ID and evolution aren't necessarily at odds, usually when somebody proposes ID they're trying to remove Evolution in favor of magical fairy dust.

The point is he didn't say what you claimed he said.

Really? Can you demonstrate the context of where he said it? Because that quote makes it sound like rather than negotiate he's advocating sending in the bombers, even if it's over something that is incorrect. Add to that the fact that he thinks they're primative and prehistoric and it sounds more like YOU got the context wrong.

Read the entire section on the Iraq war in the wiki article, I think it makes it quite clear that my interpretation of what he said is correct.

[Guard Dog]

Anyway, anyone against the death penalty is a pinko leftist, not far right.

 

I'm against the death penalty. I never knew I was a pinko leftist. Wow, I'm having a little bit of a crisis here, I always thought I was a libertarian. Heck I've never voted for a democrat before, now I find I'm one of them!

[Walsingham]

At worst he probably doesn't know much about Soviet GULAGs. Anyway, anyone against the death penalty is a pinko leftist, not far right.

 

Um... not if they want the subject to be worked as a slave in perpetuity. I have no idea if this fellah does, I'm just saying.

 

EDIT: I can't beleive you get military promotion for being an eagle scout. I can't think of anything less conducive to military discipline than finding out your corporal got his stripes for being a boyscout.

Edited April 29, 2010 by Walsingham

[Guard Dog]

I can't think of anything less conducive to military discipline than finding out your corporal got his stripes for being a boyscout.

 

Yeah that would shoot his credibility right in the foot wouldn't it.

[Deadly_Nightshade]

Not according to this...

 

What that doesn't address is things such as "renting" out government property for $1 for rallies and the like.

[Calax]

Huh... well they still get stupidly large benefits for their ranks (automatic military promotion if you hit Eagle for example).

I never heard of that. Where did you get that one?

The scouts actually, when I was in em. You're told by your leaders that you'll get higher pay, a military promotion and all sorts of other cute benefits if you reach eagle (which might just be propaganda for getting eagle, but *shrugs*)

 

And dagon:

 

He has called them a "fascist" organization in response to their threatened lawsuit against Los Angeles County for failing to remove a cross from its official seal

Taken from the article you says didn't say that, try again.

 

As to "working people to death", generally working somebody until they die (of whatever cause) is considered "Working somebody to death" no?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_0FJFgIqKM

For evolution on the "factor".

 

As to prison gulags, heres a bit of his reasoning

But faced with a life of constant pain and deprivation, would not some of these degenerates think twice before pulling a trigger or brutalizing a woman? Think about it. A painless four-minute drip versus a painful multi-decade banishment. Which would you pick?

 

Yes, because it's totally humane to force somebody into "Painful multi-decade banishment" for committing a crime, and leaving them there to be abused ( you don't think they'd be abused? look at the stanford prison experiment) for the rest of their lives. At least the current system acts like they're human, they may be "evil" humans but human nonetheless

[Pidesco]

Anyway, anyone against the death penalty is a pinko leftist, not far right.

 

 

Quote of the year!

[Gfted1]

I can't think of anything less conducive to military discipline than finding out your corporal got his stripes for being a boyscout.

 

Yeah that would shoot his credibility right in the foot wouldn't it.

 

Personally, I would have more respect for such an individual. Becoming an Eagle scout is a HUGE achievement and should be looked upon with pride, not derision.

[Guard Dog]

I can't think of anything less conducive to military discipline than finding out your corporal got his stripes for being a boyscout.

 

Yeah that would shoot his credibility right in the foot wouldn't it.

 

Personally, I would have more respect for such an individual. Becoming an Eagle scout is a HUGE achievement and should be looked upon with pride, not derision.

Admittedly I know next to nothing about the Scouts. But I have found out Calax was misinformed, earning Eagle Scout does not result in any form of military advancement. Nor should it. The military (at least the Marine Corps) is one of the last true meritocracies left in the US. Making rank is difficult to do in the Corps. E-4 in 3 years is common in the other services, in the Marines it is very rare and the ones who do tt earned it on their military merits, not a civillian youth group badge.

[Calax]

I can't think of anything less conducive to military discipline than finding out your corporal got his stripes for being a boyscout.

 

Yeah that would shoot his credibility right in the foot wouldn't it.

 

Personally, I would have more respect for such an individual. Becoming an Eagle scout is a HUGE achievement and should be looked upon with pride, not derision.

Admittedly I know next to nothing about the Scouts. But I have found out Calax was misinformed, earning Eagle Scout does not result in any form of military advancement. Nor should it. The military (at least the Marine Corps) is one of the last true meritocracies left in the US. Making rank is difficult to do in the Corps. E-4 in 3 years is common in the other services, in the Marines it is very rare and the ones who do tt earned it on their military merits, not a civillian youth group badge.

Meh, with the little exposure I had in the Navy leads me to believe that you'd go from E1-E2. Of course getting that takes all of what, 0 days as long as you memorize things before you go (sailors creed, general orders of the sentry and rank list).

[alanschu]

The Boy Scouts of America stopped receiving government funding in 2005 due to the ACLU's lawsuit.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_Scouts_of..._Scouting_units

[Wrath of Dagon]

And dagon:

 

He has called them a "fascist" organization in response to their threatened lawsuit against Los Angeles County for failing to remove a cross from its official seal

Taken from the article you says didn't say that, try again.

This was mentioned in two places in the article, in different contexts.

 

As to "working people to death", generally working somebody until they die (of whatever cause) is considered "Working somebody to death" no?

No, sentencing someone for life of hard labor is not working someone to death, that refers to overworking someone so much they drop dead.

 

As to prison gulags, heres a bit of his reasoning

But faced with a life of constant pain and deprivation, would not some of these degenerates think twice before pulling a trigger or brutalizing a woman? Think about it. A painless four-minute drip versus a painful multi-decade banishment. Which would you pick?

 

Yes, because it's totally humane to force somebody into "Painful multi-decade banishment" for committing a crime, and leaving them there to be abused ( you don't think they'd be abused? look at the stanford prison experiment) for the rest of their lives. At least the current system acts like they're human, they may be "evil" humans but human nonetheless

Why wouldn't they be abused in the current system? Do you have something against life sentences or hard labor?

 

Edit: And how's working 8 hour days working someone to death? That's less than most game developers work.

Edited April 30, 2010 by Wrath of Dagon

[Calax]

And dagon:

 

He has called them a "fascist" organization in response to their threatened lawsuit against Los Angeles County for failing to remove a cross from its official seal

Taken from the article you says didn't say that, try again.

This was mentioned in two places in the article, in different contexts.

and yet, that was the first one. Even if it's mentioned twice, it still invalidates your point that he called them facist not because of that.

As to "working people to death", generally working somebody until they die (of whatever cause) is considered "Working somebody to death" no?

No, sentencing someone for life of hard labor is not working someone to death, that refers to overworking someone so much they drop dead.

Well, other than being unconstitutional (see cruel and unusual punishment), The idea of a work camp like that puts in my head the idea that they don't necessairly get worked so hard until they fall over, but they aren't provided more than gruel and the most basic medical care while they do little more than breaking pavement in weather that I couldn't work in legally.

As to prison gulags, heres a bit of his reasoning

But faced with a life of constant pain and deprivation, would not some of these degenerates think twice before pulling a trigger or brutalizing a woman? Think about it. A painless four-minute drip versus a painful multi-decade banishment. Which would you pick?

 

Yes, because it's totally humane to force somebody into "Painful multi-decade banishment" for committing a crime, and leaving them there to be abused ( you don't think they'd be abused? look at the stanford prison experiment) for the rest of their lives. At least the current system acts like they're human, they may be "evil" humans but human nonetheless

Why wouldn't they be abused in the current system? Do you have something against life sentences or hard labor?

They do get abused in the current system, but the nature of a work camp lends it self MUCH better to the idea of abuse because of the fact that basically a person works at the mercy of their guards and is afforded very little. I mean in my ADMJ class we saw a video about prison system where a privately contracted prison literally forced their inmates to crawl along the floor like worms while the guards looked on, and hurled verbal abuse. A work camp provides much more opportunity for beating the hell out of somebody and blaming it on a "work accident".

[Walsingham]

I can't think of anything less conducive to military discipline than finding out your corporal got his stripes for being a boyscout.

 

Yeah that would shoot his credibility right in the foot wouldn't it.

 

Personally, I would have more respect for such an individual. Becoming an Eagle scout is a HUGE achievement and should be looked upon with pride, not derision.

 

Come on Gfted. I know you ahve actual experience. But can you honestly see a bunch of squaddies treating a bloke who got promoted for boyscout membership with anything other than uproarious derision? I mean, possibly if we were living in some sci fi utopia. But we're at war! Anyway, it's probably off topic.

 

In a similar appeal to common sense, I don't see the problem with the Boy Scouts. They're hardly the KKK. I don't agree with their rather silly anti-homosexual stance, since what they really object to is paedophiles, and that's illegal anyway. But they keep kids out of trouble. It's a valuable, if naff service.

[Calax]

I can't think of anything less conducive to military discipline than finding out your corporal got his stripes for being a boyscout.

 

Yeah that would shoot his credibility right in the foot wouldn't it.

 

Personally, I would have more respect for such an individual. Becoming an Eagle scout is a HUGE achievement and should be looked upon with pride, not derision.

 

Come on Gfted. I know you ahve actual experience. But can you honestly see a bunch of squaddies treating a bloke who got promoted for boyscout membership with anything other than uproarious derision? I mean, possibly if we were living in some sci fi utopia. But we're at war! Anyway, it's probably off topic.

 

In a similar appeal to common sense, I don't see the problem with the Boy Scouts. They're hardly the KKK. I don't agree with their rather silly anti-homosexual stance, since what they really object to is paedophiles, and that's illegal anyway. But they keep kids out of trouble. It's a valuable, if naff service.

Well it's not just gay members, I personally have issue with the fact that they're HEAVILY religious, and they won't accept members (technically) that are atheistic or from atheist parents. And while they might not get money directly from the government, they do get indirect support in that they're so "venerable" an institution (nightshades example)

[Hurlshort]

Where I grew up, the whole Mormon aspect of Boy Scouts was not ever mentioned. I'm sure it's more of a regional issue as to how religious the Scouts are.

 

I believe being an Eagle Scout automatically puts you on the path to being an officer, as does a college degree or participation in ROTC.

[Enoch]

Where I grew up, the whole Mormon aspect of Boy Scouts was not ever mentioned. I'm sure it's more of a regional issue as to how religious the Scouts are.

 

I believe being an Eagle Scout automatically puts you on the path to being an officer, as does a college degree or participation in ROTC.

At least in the Coast Guard (probably the other services, too), if you enter the enlisted services having been an Eagle Scout, you do get bumped up a pay grade. I don't know if it help when you're coming in as an officer. Although I'm sure it's a big leg up on getting admittance to one of the service academies.

 

I was in the scouts for a few years (I quit around 7th grade, mostly because all of my friends already had, and I didn't get along with many of the other members of my troop) and the religious stuff was really downplayed. Yeah, the mottos and oaths and stuff mentioned God, but it never had anything to do with the activities we actually did. This was in southern NJ. From talking to people I met in college, though, I did get the impression that in other parts of the country, the Scouts worked very closely with (and received a lot of support from) local churches.

Edited April 30, 2010 by Enoch