Moscow metro bombing

[HoonDing]

Ex-KGB to me still sounds better than ex-actor or failed businessman.

[vault_overseer]

I'd like to point out that obyknven is 17, which means that she was born in Russian federation and missed the "best" days of 1990's. As the matter of fact, she just started school, when our KGB friend took over and started spreading his propaganda. So she, likely, has no idea what free press, or real opposition is. Keep that in mind.

 

I think that if you want some better answers, you'll need to find someone in their 30's, who's had s chance to experience soviet union, free Russia and putin's Russia. And that's not me.

 

Now, if you want to know why we put an ex-KGB guy in a president's seat, I'll tell you the whole story...in few hours, once I get to work and have some free time

[Gorgon]

I'll venture a guess : it's because psychologically you still believed that another 'strong man' could save you all. You were so used to having a Pater Familias at the head of the country you couldn't do without one, you needed to be reassured.

Edited March 31, 2010 by Gorgon

[obyknven]

Now, I'm a proud citizen of USA.

limita ponaechala

Obyknev, I think the question about the KGB revolves around how healthy it is for a democracy to take its elected leaders from a background of extreme secrecy, not to say anti-democratic traditions.

Democracy is gift of secret societes to mankind. Read it in "Founding Fathers, Secret Societies" by Robert Hieronimus and "On the Influence Attributed to Philosophers, Free-Masons, and to the Illuminati on the Revolution of France" by Jean-Joseph Mounier. Secrecy is democratic tradition.

[vault_overseer]

Now, I'm a proud citizen of USA.

limita ponaechala

Obyknev, I think the question about the KGB revolves around how healthy it is for a democracy to take its elected leaders from a background of extreme secrecy, not to say anti-democratic traditions.

Democracy is gift of secret societes to mankind. Read it in "Founding Fathers, Secret Societies" by Robert Hieronimus and "On the Influence Attributed to Philosophers, Free-Masons, and to the Illuminati on the Revolution of France" by Jean-Joseph Mounier. Secrecy is democratic tradition.

 

yup, sounds like a standard issue modern 17 year old Russian.

[obyknven]

yup, sounds like a standard issue modern 17 year old Russian.

In Soviet Russia, girls is smarter than YOU!

[vault_overseer]

yup, sounds like a standard issue modern 17 year old Russian.

In Soviet Russia, girls is smarter than YOU!

Don't doubt it. Usually prettier, too.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Yeah right, one of chechnya's main commanders during the first chechen war is currently the president of chechnya, sitting on the huge stream of money coming from moscow.

Heh.

 

I suspect you're going to get Wrath of Dagon dropping by to tell you that you're wrong soon.

 

Fact that Kadyrov fought against RF in the first war is well documented, as is the fact that he's on the official kremlin payroll.

Oh yes, I certainly knew that. I'm just slightly amused because that ^^^ is pretty much exactly what I said, in the general case, a month ago and was told that I was wrong (and it was OT/ irrelevant, which it was in that thread so I didn't push it further).

No, that's not what you posted.

[vault_overseer]

I'm 17 years old, from Russia. Ask your questions.

 

Why did you elect an ex-KGB communist as your leader?

 

I wrote a lot of text here, but I thought that it would be better to just post these links to the infamous GQ article, it explains it the best:

 

The article in English: http://ratafia.info/post/180606234/none-da...l-it-conspiracy

The article in Russian: http://gawker.com/5352827/

The article about the article: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.p...oryId=112530364

 

 

EDIT: Just to clarify, personally I wouldn't say anything as concrete as: "Putin did it", or "Chechens did it". However, the fact that current Russian government draws power from such tragic and still unexplained events, and yet taboos all talk about the issue, definitely undermines any credibility it may have.

Edited March 31, 2010 by vault_overseer

[Humodour]

Why did you elect an ex-KGB communist as your leader?

You say it as if it were something bad.

Why did you elect an afroamerican as your leader?

 

Because his race has nothing to do with how many people he has murdered in cold blood as a spy for an idiotic ideology? Hmmmmmmm.

 

Also it's not my fault that Kevin Rudd is black. That bastard.

[Humodour]

Now, if you want to know why we put an ex-KGB guy in a president's seat, I'll tell you the whole story...in few hours, once I get to work and have some free time

 

Oh, I know why. There's often a lot of stability and industrial/economic progress that comes with a dictator. It's just that it almost invariably comes at the cost of personal liberties and economic freedoms, as you well know.

 

I just wanted to see if obyknven was blindly accepting or actually worth talking rationally to.

[vault_overseer]

Now, if you want to know why we put an ex-KGB guy in a president's seat, I'll tell you the whole story...in few hours, once I get to work and have some free time

 

Oh, I know why. There's often a lot of stability and industrial/economic progress that comes with a dictator. It's just that it almost invariably comes at the cost of personal liberties and economic freedoms, as you well know.

 

I just wanted to see if obyknven was blindly accepting or actually worth talking rationally to.

 

Did you get your answer?

[obyknven]

how many people he has murdered in cold blood as a spy for an idiotic ideology? Hmmmmmmm.

Hmmmmmmm. Do you known about praesumptio innocentiae?

[vault_overseer]

how many people he has murdered in cold blood as a spy for an idiotic ideology? Hmmmmmmm.

Hmmmmmmm. Do you known about praesumptio innocentiae?

 

Said citizen of a country with 99% conviction rate. God forbid you ever have to appear in Russian court as a defendant.

 

EDIT: Also, throwing Latin around, when you can obviously use English makes you sound like a presumptuous idiot.

Edited March 31, 2010 by vault_overseer

[Humodour]

Now, if you want to know why we put an ex-KGB guy in a president's seat, I'll tell you the whole story...in few hours, once I get to work and have some free time

 

Oh, I know why. There's often a lot of stability and industrial/economic progress that comes with a dictator. It's just that it almost invariably comes at the cost of personal liberties and economic freedoms, as you well know.

 

I just wanted to see if obyknven was blindly accepting or actually worth talking rationally to.

 

Did you get your answer?

 

I'd have to say no. Partly because I'm drunk, but more because it would be unfair to judge somebody by a few posts they made. I'm not happy to have frail defences of disturbing authoritarian fired back at me, though.

[vault_overseer]

Now, if you want to know why we put an ex-KGB guy in a president's seat, I'll tell you the whole story...in few hours, once I get to work and have some free time

 

Oh, I know why. There's often a lot of stability and industrial/economic progress that comes with a dictator. It's just that it almost invariably comes at the cost of personal liberties and economic freedoms, as you well know.

 

I just wanted to see if obyknven was blindly accepting or actually worth talking rationally to.

 

Did you get your answer?

 

I'd have to say no. Partly because I'm drunk, but more because it would be unfair to judge somebody by a few posts they made. I'm not happy to have frail defences of disturbing authoritarian fired back at me, though.

 

Stupid joke about a drunk Aussie goes here.

[vault_overseer]

Dokka Umarov(One of the leaders of Chechen separatists) took responsibility for the attack. Interesting thing is, he shunned terrorism before, but seems like, since last year, he has reversed his views.

[Walsingham]

how many people he has murdered in cold blood as a spy for an idiotic ideology? Hmmmmmmm.

Hmmmmmmm. Do you known about praesumptio innocentiae?

 

ROFL. What a great image that conjurs up.

 

Vladimir Putin, sitting in front of his colonel's desk, like a bad schoolboy, head downcast. The colonel saying "Putin, it's just been brought to my attention that you've arrested and savagely punished ZERO enemies of the state. You realise you are letting me down personally on top of everything else." And Putin is saying "I knew I should have listened to my mother and stayed at home and become a night watchman. I never realised the KGB had to do all this running of camps and so on. Are you sure I can't just work in filing, comrade colonel?"

Edited April 1, 2010 by Walsingham

[HoonDing]

Was Putin a KGB field agent, or did he just have desk job?

[obyknven]

Was Putin a KGB field agent, or did he just have desk job?

He just did office work. Even field agents usually do not kill people. For this purpose, there are many thousands of special forces.

[The Illuminator]

I think the logic of the terrorists performing such murders is nothing but revenge. They think their innocent relatives are being killed during the attacks their opposes make on them and as they are unable to make such army supported attacks, they try such methods to kill the innocents of their opposes. It is arguable if this attack can be masked under revenge or not, but I believe their logic is such simple and their sadness which is deriving from the death of their loves or relatives is being abused by the groups which desire to use them in such attacks. I think wars must take place in battlefield, but in this century it is obviously not occuring in such a way and this is bad for the innocent people.

 

I'm sorry for those Russians killed in that attack and I hope no further attacks take place. I also hope the war between those Chechens demanding independance and Russia ends soon peacefully.

[Volourn]

Most mass suicide bombings against civilians are exactly that - it's pure revenge. Kinda like AQ and their buddies suicide boming Iraqi Muslim worshippers. Sucide bombers in Iraq have murder way more Iraqis then thsoe they claim to be fighting against all the while claiming they're doinng it to protect Iraqis.

 

I'm sure it's basically the same here. Sucide bomings against civilians isa pathetic cowardly approach to 'freedom fighting' and there is absolutely no excuse for it that is is tolerable.

[Walsingham]

Was Putin a KGB field agent, or did he just have desk job?

He just did office work. Even field agents usually do not kill people. For this purpose, there are many thousands of special forces.

 

 

Oh well that's fine then.

 

You almost make the counter case yourself!

 

Please tell us you don't see this as an oddly detached view. Don't get me wrong. There isn't a national politician in history without blood on his hands. I'm just saying that a person who belonged to an organisation dedicated to destroying freedom might not be the optimal choice for an office which is supposed to underpin it.

[obyknven]

I'm just saying that a person who belonged to an organisation dedicated to destroying freedom might not be the optimal choice for an office which is supposed to underpin it.

KGB simply to protect our country from the enemy. ex-KGB agent as leader is optimal choise for present time. VVP Protectus!

 

Moscow Subway Bombing:

 

http://engforum.pravda.ru/showthread.php?2...-Subway-Bombing

 

http://engforum.pravda.ru/showthread.php?2...USSIAN-BOMBINGS

 

they are crazy

Edited April 2, 2010 by obyknven

[Humodour]

I'm just saying that a person who belonged to an organisation dedicated to destroying freedom might not be the optimal choice for an office which is supposed to underpin it.

KGB simply to protect our country from the enemy.

 

Exactly. If by 'the enemy' you mean 'ordinary Russian citizens', that is.