Infinity Ward founders canned by Activision

[Volourn]

"west and zamp are asking for "Millions". I'd say they're owed a couple hundred thousand but not millions. "

 

You know this how? How the ehck do you make that determination? LMAO

 

Bottom line is Activision owes them money and by withholding it, theya re stealing money that doesn't belong to them. It doesn't even matter if it is $1, $10, $100, $1000, or a $1million dollars. Firing someone doesn't give you the right not to pay them for work already done. Period.

[Calax]

Well, it'd be more like the interior designer started doing really good job on the early houses, but once you move into mansions, they do half the design and then try to hike their rate.

For such a short deadline they did a pretty good job. There are many things that go into making a game and one of the biggest reason as to why a game fails is because of the publisher wanting a unreasonable release date. Also the reviews and public opinion mostly complain about the multiplayer, which is usually a never-ending fight to improve.

Well, from what I have heard, even when it was released it was a bug riddled mess that included bugs like the ability to park yourself in a wall and be invulnerable, and then one where you could wield shotguns akimbo. I mean if these guys had any integrity at all they'd be like the folks at troika and actually get a patch together EVEN IF IT WAS WITHOUT PAY for that garbage.

 

Not necessairly. Activision owns the rights to COD. Not necessairly MW2 (which is one of the things in contention in the court case), but as owners of CoD they're entitled to CoD's money, and if they win and technically own the rights to MW (from everything that's been said, IW just has claim to creating anything in the MW line, not necessairly owning the rights) then they can pay a flat fee to IW and be perfectly legal. It all depends on how the license is handled.

Agreed, but according to the MOU the rights to every CoD title set on the modern era belongs to IW. The problem is that this rubs ACT the wrong way because their strategy is, "do a bunch of spin offs and cash in" They basically strip mine a video game's success.

As stated below, the MOU has yet to be shown to exist. They claim it exists, but people also claim that the world used to be encased in ice and a giant meteor shattered the ice to create noahs flood. And right now it seems like both have the same mount of proof.

Even before they got canned there was no real attempt by IW to fix their stuff. And the MOU hasn't been even shown to exist beyond claims by west and zamp so it's possible it doesn't exist at all and west and zamp just made it up to gouge money from an employer that they hate similar to how guys would claim false disability.

I doubt that an MOU wasn't agreed since it's unlikely that West and Zamp stopped the aforementioned whining on '07 without a reason. It's on the name "Memorandum of understanding" without reaching an understanding and putting down in a contract, MW2 production wouldn't had begun.

 

BTW, good luck on your family troubles

Well that MoU might also be the thing saying that they were locked in for three years with Acti. And when they attempted to move to EA (or whoever) they broke the MoU themselves.

[Orogun01]

Well, from what I have heard, even when it was released it was a bug riddled mess that included bugs like the ability to park yourself in a wall and be invulnerable, and then one where you could wield shotguns akimbo. I mean if these guys had any integrity at all they'd be like the folks at troika and actually get a patch together EVEN IF IT WAS WITHOUT PAY for that garbage.

But they aren't the guys at troika. Plus is hard to work when you aren't allowed in the premises and is actually ACT responsibility to fix them.

 

As stated below, the MOU has yet to be shown to exist. They claim it exists, but people also claim that the world used to be encased in ice and a giant meteor shattered the ice to create noahs flood. And right now it seems like both have the same mount of proof.

Okay I guess this just something that will come up on the trial, but I doubt that they would even mention it unless they can bring it up in court.

Well that MoU might also be the thing saying that they were locked in for three years with Acti. And when they attempted to move to EA (or whoever) they broke the MoU themselves.

Well we will have to see that on court.

[Calax]

Well, from what I have heard, even when it was released it was a bug riddled mess that included bugs like the ability to park yourself in a wall and be invulnerable, and then one where you could wield shotguns akimbo. I mean if these guys had any integrity at all they'd be like the folks at troika and actually get a patch together EVEN IF IT WAS WITHOUT PAY for that garbage.

But they aren't the guys at troika. Plus is hard to work when you aren't allowed in the premises and is actually ACT responsibility to fix them.

Am I reading this right... Person makes messed up product for distributor, Messed up product is released to public, Person whistles while the money pours in while the distributor has to take a massive financial hit for the garbage product?

 

I mean, come ON. If Toyota assembles a car that kills somebody, it's not the Daves dealership that gets sued, it's friggin Toyota!

Edited April 12, 2010 by Calax

[Azure79]

And the lawyers win!

[Mamoulian War]

Well, from what I have heard, even when it was released it was a bug riddled mess that included bugs like the ability to park yourself in a wall and be invulnerable, and then one where you could wield shotguns akimbo. I mean if these guys had any integrity at all they'd be like the folks at troika and actually get a patch together EVEN IF IT WAS WITHOUT PAY for that garbage.

But they aren't the guys at troika. Plus is hard to work when you aren't allowed in the premises and is actually ACT responsibility to fix them.

Am I reading this right... Person makes messed up product for distributor, Messed up product is released to public, Person whistles while the money pours in while the distributor has to take a massive financial hit for the garbage product?

 

I mean, come ON. If Toyota assembles a car that kills somebody, it's not the Daves dealership that gets sued, it's friggin Toyota!

 

If distributor forced them to release the product sooner than it is market ready, it's fault of the greedy distributor... In no other business you can force your workers to put unfinnished product into the market and get away with it... only in software business... something should be done about it, but no one cares and looks like customers have lot of lube ready and realy love to bend over...

Edited April 12, 2010 by Mamoulian War

[Calax]

Well, from what I have heard, even when it was released it was a bug riddled mess that included bugs like the ability to park yourself in a wall and be invulnerable, and then one where you could wield shotguns akimbo. I mean if these guys had any integrity at all they'd be like the folks at troika and actually get a patch together EVEN IF IT WAS WITHOUT PAY for that garbage.

But they aren't the guys at troika. Plus is hard to work when you aren't allowed in the premises and is actually ACT responsibility to fix them.

Am I reading this right... Person makes messed up product for distributor, Messed up product is released to public, Person whistles while the money pours in while the distributor has to take a massive financial hit for the garbage product?

 

I mean, come ON. If Toyota assembles a car that kills somebody, it's not the Daves dealership that gets sued, it's friggin Toyota!

 

If distributor forced them to release the product sooner than it is market ready, it's fault of the greedy distributor... In no other business you can force your workers to put unfinnished product into the market and get away with it... only in software business... something should be done about it, but no one cares and looks like customers have lot of lube ready and realy love to bend over...

Not quite. Movies have been released before they were ready, although they are usually pushed back, and south park practically lives on the idea of doing everything last minute and turning it in before it might be ready to be released (there were a few episodes where the audio wasn't necessarily in place correctly when south park when on air.

[Gorth]

You guys do realise that, besides the parties directly involved, nobody is likely to know what really happened? Not saying that the posts doesn't make for interesting reading, but the horse can feature in the next Romero movie

 

I don't envy the court that has to untangle the mess.

[Mamoulian War]

You guys do realise that, besides the parties directly involved, nobody is likely to know what really happened? Not saying that the posts doesn't make for interesting reading, but the horse can feature in the next Romero movie

 

I don't envy the court that has to untangle the mess.

 

How dare you to say something like that??? HERESY, BLASPHEMY!!! Internet discussions are SIRIOZ BZNZ!!! No go back to the cage, else at the dusk thou shalt be purgeth by the flame!!!

Edited April 12, 2010 by Mamoulian War

[Calax]

I'll be honest, I'm taking acti's side because A) nobody else seems to even think that acti MIGHT be right in any way shape or form because they're the big bad corporate goliath going up against west and zamp's david. B) West and Zamp need to be taken down a notch. Just because you do one thing in your life doesn't make you the greatest thing in the world. Just because Michael Bay made Armageddon doesn't mean he's a horrible horrible douchebag, just because michael jordan practically carried a team to the champs doesn't mean he always rocks etc etc.

 

Yes I understand when a developer wants to work on their own project. But they should wait for the opportunity to present itself (and hush about the MoU, it hasn't even been proven to exist beyond the minds of West and Zamp) and sell the idea then, not drop development on what they're contracted to do and use those resources on what they want to do instead (which is what IW was threatening I believe).

[Volourn]

"A) nobody else seems to even think that acti MIGHT be right in any way shape or form because they're the big bad corporate goliath going up against west and zamp's david"

 

Hey, I'm the first perosn tod efend the 'big bad publishers'; but in this case Act IS wrong. Even if the two dinks are also wrong, ACT is still wrong. They hired them to a do job, they did it, now pay them. And, you keep tlaking about about bugs but that's irrelevant as the game made millions.

 

 

"B) West and Zamp need to be taken down a notch. Just because you do one thing in your life doesn't make you the greatest thing in the world"

 

I don'ty evenc are about them. I played a COD3 once. *big whoop* If it wans't for this mess, I wouldn't even know who they were.

 

P.S. Taking a side of the opposition just because others aren't is a sure sign of a troll. Now if you had an unpopualr opinion and defended bcause you thought it was right is cool; but not if you are making ana rgument just to argue.

Edited April 12, 2010 by Volourn

[Calax]

http://kotaku.com/5515061/ousted-modern-wa...h-former-rivals

 

They've already got a new studio at ea

 

http://kotaku.com/5513948/call-of-duty-bat...activision-logo

And they ignored direct standard orders on MW2 (by not posting the acti logo in the game AT ALL)

[Volourn]

"They've already got a new studio at ea"

 

They were fired. They have the right to get new jobs. And, actually, it's a new company that's being funded by EA. A little different. Either way, once again, they were FIRED. They have the right to look for and get new employment. You make it sound like they're evil because they sought employment after beingB FIRED.

 

I guarantee you if my current employer FIRED me, I'd be looking for a new job. Duh.

 

 

 

"And they ignored direct standard orders on MW2 (by not posting the acti logo in the game AT ALL)"

 

I agree that this seems petty on their part; but isn't Activision the publisher? they should have forced them to put in the game or do it themselevs before publishing it? Still, very petty thing to do.

[aries101]

I thought Zampella and West (the two guys from IW) did not want to make a COD/MW game every year as Activision wanted them to do? But only every other year?

 

As for who is right and who is wrong, I can't reallt tellm based on the information given here. Maybe these people need to see a marriage - ehm- game company counsellor - to talk about things. I sense people being hurt here - both West & Zampella and people from Activision as well.

[Calax]

"And they ignored direct standard orders on MW2 (by not posting the acti logo in the game AT ALL)"

 

I agree that this seems petty on their part; but isn't Activision the publisher? they should have forced them to put in the game or do it themselevs before publishing it? Still, very petty thing to do.

I don't think activision (when they publish) is able to go in and actually change the code...

[Mamoulian War]

"And they ignored direct standard orders on MW2 (by not posting the acti logo in the game AT ALL)"

 

I agree that this seems petty on their part; but isn't Activision the publisher? they should have forced them to put in the game or do it themselevs before publishing it? Still, very petty thing to do.

I don't think activision (when they publish) is able to go in and actually change the code...

 

But they can tell: IF YOU DON'T ****ING GET OUR ****ING LOGO IN THE GAME, IT WILL NOT BE PUBLISHED!!!

 

but they clearly were more interested in milking the franchise as much as possible before Xmas...

[Calax]

I do like how you're taking the willful disobedience and making it the fault of the person who set the terms.

 

Basically blaming the parent because the kid didn't bring in his homework, and giving the kid honor roll.

[Volourn]

"I do like how you're taking the willful disobedience and making it the fault of the person who set the terms.

 

Basically blaming the parent because the kid didn't bring in his homework, and giving the kid honor roll."

 

 

Not even remotely the same thing.

 

First off, the guys aren't bveing rewaqrded for NOT putting thje logo in. Theyt're getting PAID for the job they did do which made ACT a lot of money.

 

If the kid didn't bring his homwork in, he'd enver make the honour roll. So what exactly is the comparison?

 

ACT hired them to make a game. they did that. ACT made millions off their hard work. They're owed the money. ACT can't change their mind and refuse to pay them. That's theft. Period.

 

Now, if ACT had paid them before the game was made and sold, and the two dinks ran away without finishing the job then they wouldn't have to pay them for work they didn't do. But, that isn't what happened here. Nice try, though.

Edited April 13, 2010 by Volourn

[Orogun01]

I do like how you're taking the willful disobedience and making it the fault of the person who set the terms.

 

Basically blaming the parent because the kid didn't bring in his homework, and giving the kid honor roll.

But ACT were pushing an unreasonable date, not only they would have to scratch a lot of ideas that might have gone into the game but also release a buggy game, hence the multiplayer.

[Volourn]

Bugginess is irrelevant here as ACT still made tons of money off the work.

[Calax]

I do like how you're taking the willful disobedience and making it the fault of the person who set the terms.

 

Basically blaming the parent because the kid didn't bring in his homework, and giving the kid honor roll.

But ACT were pushing an unreasonable date, not only they would have to scratch a lot of ideas that might have gone into the game but also release a buggy game, hence the multiplayer.

Even if you put out a quick release game with enormous amounts of executive meddling, you still put the name of the company that's publishing the bloody thing in there (Kotor2 anyone? Still had the publishers logo). They didn't put in something that had been specifically ordered to be put in there, which counts towards that insubordination that you're desperately trying to discount. And Activision can't go into each game themselves and slam it in there, if they did that they'd have to extend every release date while the checked, and then coded in if it wasn't there, their logo.

[Mamoulian War]

Seriously, if you are publisher or producer of any software product, and you do not check the contracted work at regular basis, it's your own damn fault, if it is something different than you have expected when did you signed the contract...

 

when i was working as programmer, my product was checked 2-5 times a week at early/middle phase and twice a day just before the deadline...

[Calax]

Seriously, if you are publisher or producer of any software product, and you do not check the contracted work at regular basis, it's your own damn fault, if it is something different than you have expected when did you signed the contract...

 

when i was working as programmer, my product was checked 2-5 times a week at early/middle phase and twice a day just before the deadline...

Honestly, if west and zamp were THAT petty, I can see them covering up the missing stuff until to late (I'm sure Acti doesn't have their pets leaning on every member all the time.)

[Mamoulian War]

The keyword is IF...

 

Even IF they were doing the covering, even then the partial blame is on ACT, because the person who should have controlled them, had absolutely no clue about what he should have controlled... If you put in charge person, who is satisfied with cheap excuses, then it's your own damn fault, that you put some clown with economical degree in a position where it is required minimum of 5 years of heavy programming and application design experience...

[Volourn]

Clax, btw, has also gone with ACT's accusation that the two IW guys were basically stealing monies intended for otyher IW employees. If that were true, why are other IW employees quitting? Another two quit today (or yesterday?).. Seems to me ACT must be doing something wrong if the people that they claim wer ebeings tolen from are dropping them like a bad habit. LMAO