Capitalism is un-Christian.

[Cycloneman]

Where does it mention punishment?

What else does "woe to you" mean?

[Hurlshort]

Woe actually means distress or an affliction. It can be construed as saying you are in danger of punishment, but it can also mean that, if you are wealthy, you are in jeopardy of not saving your soul because your life is too good. It's an easy decision as a pauper to say, hey I'll devote myself to Christ. You have nothing to lose. As a rich man, there is a lot less motivation, and therein lies the woe.

[Tigranes]

Exactly. Little bit of common sense thinking will go far here.

 

What exactly is being argued over now, anyway? Does anyone actually believe Jesus wanted to persecute, accuse or damn the rich?

[Oblarg]

*Sigh*... One troll thread wasn't enough huh?

 

 

Yes Christianity teaches selflesness. I am a Christian and I do believe in that. But you are missing a pretty major point. Becoming Christian is a choice everyone must make for themselves. We do not coerce. Under communisim if you do not go along you get a bullet in the head or get shipped off to a cold place to be worked to death. In fact in your other thread you seemd to think this was a good thing.

 

Hurrrrrr, Communism is evil and dictatorial by definition and obviously cannot exist without brutally suppressing its people.

 

HURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.

 

And you call LoF the troll?

[Oblarg]

Classical Greece would disagree with that affirmation.

um, democracy was invented in 510 BC by cleisthenes, the beginning of the period referred to as "classical greece."

 

taks

 

You might want to read up on the history of Greece and Rome before you make up your little hypotheses. Democracy then was often very different to democracy now (and largely not about individual rights). Not to mention that democracy didn't last that long - much of the time the Greek and Roman empires were run by dictators and emperors.

 

And Rome had quite a few competent, successful "dictators" as well. Something to think about before you jump on the "dictatorship is violent and evil" bandwagon.

[I want teh kotor 3]

*Sigh*... One troll thread wasn't enough huh?

 

 

Yes Christianity teaches selflesness. I am a Christian and I do believe in that. But you are missing a pretty major point. Becoming Christian is a choice everyone must make for themselves. We do not coerce. Under communisim if you do not go along you get a bullet in the head or get shipped off to a cold place to be worked to death. In fact in your other thread you seemd to think this was a good thing.

 

Hurrrrrr, Communism is evil and dictatorial by definition and obviously cannot exist without brutally suppressing its people.

 

HURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.

 

And you call LoF the troll?

 

It can't exist without oppression. How in the hell else is its "everybody has the same amount of money" stupidity enforced? I mean, I'm sure as hell not giving up the majority of my money.

[Oblarg]

*Sigh*... One troll thread wasn't enough huh?

 

 

Yes Christianity teaches selflesness. I am a Christian and I do believe in that. But you are missing a pretty major point. Becoming Christian is a choice everyone must make for themselves. We do not coerce. Under communisim if you do not go along you get a bullet in the head or get shipped off to a cold place to be worked to death. In fact in your other thread you seemd to think this was a good thing.

 

Hurrrrrr, Communism is evil and dictatorial by definition and obviously cannot exist without brutally suppressing its people.

 

HURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.

 

And you call LoF the troll?

 

It can't exist without oppression. How in the hell else is its "everybody has the same amount of money" stupidity enforced? I mean, I'm sure as hell not giving up the majority of my money.

 

"Everybody has the same amount of money."

 

Are you kidding? Did you even read the "ask me about communism" thread?

 

And even if that were the goal of Communism (it isn't), money is a social construct. It's doesn't have any innate value, and there is no innate right to own it.

[Killian Kalthorne]

Without money how the hell do we get what we want and what we need, when we want it and when we need it? Wait on our collective asses for the government truck to come by and shovel it out? Frak that load of s**t. I rather keep my independence, keep my freedom, and use currency. It allows me to do what I want, when I want, without some communist Big Brother telling me otherwise.

[Oblarg]

Without money how the hell do we get what we want and what we need, when we want it and when we need it? Wait on our collective asses for the government truck to come by and shovel it out? Frak that load of s**t. I rather keep my independence, keep my freedom, and use currency. It allows me to do what I want, when I want, without some communist Big Brother telling me otherwise.

 

Well, if you're just going to strawman I don't think I'll waste my time.

[Humodour]

Plato argued in The Republic that it was the only way to do human thought.

i don't care what plato argued, classical greece was not a period representative of what i originally proposed. do some better research, find a different period to prove your point, this one ain't it.

 

You might want to read up on the history of Greece and Rome before you make up your little hypotheses.

i did, and i have. i suggest the same to you.

 

Democracy then was often very different to democracy now (and largely not about individual rights).

it lasted through the classical greece period which pidesco claims refutes my theory about absolute power, the period in which greece is known for its intellectual advancements.

 

Not to mention that democracy didn't last that long - much of the time the Greek and Roman empires were run by dictators and emperors.

not the period referred to as "classical greece." this is easy to find out, had you bothered to look. this is not unlike that comment in the windows7 thread where you failed to actually read the article, right?

 

knowledge is the enemy of tyranny. you, and many others that post in these silly threads, however, are not.

 

taks

 

If we go back and look at what you originally said - that any one group being in power is the enemy of progress (citing ancient Greek democracy as a deceptive example to back this up) - you were clearly wrong, and that is what I was referring to. The social, intellectual, and technological progress that came from Rome and Greece was done mostly under various forms of authoritarianism and dictatorship, not democracy.

 

I don't like this reality any more than you do, but unlike you I'm not going to bend the truth to suit me.

 

The benefit of democracy isn't (just) progress - it is freedom. Implying otherwise is disingenuous and ultimately detrimental to your cause, since when applied to something like modern day China, a misguided Chinese person can then turn around and say "but we don't need democracy for progress - we're doing fine with authoritarianism".

 

Reference:

 

Human thinking went down the gutter when the church had power.

that's actually what happens when any one group has absolute power, be it religious or otherwise.

 

that's where the whole concept of individual rights is derived, as a means to protect people from such groups (particularly the state).

 

taks

Edited January 1, 2010 by Krezack

[lord of flies]

Without money how the hell do we get what we want and what we need, when we want it and when we need it? Wait on our collective asses for the government truck to come by and shovel it out? Frak that load of s**t. I rather keep my independence, keep my freedom, and use currency. It allows me to do what I want, when I want, without some communist Big Brother telling me otherwise.

There were no internal travel restrictions in the Soviet Union. You could take a vacation and go to just about any part of the country (except for certain restricted zones). You could go down to the local store and purchase food, clothes, et cetera, with your money. If you couldn't buy something, it's probably because it wasn't available due to poor trade relations with the United States or low supply. Both of which (sanctions, lack of supply) are perfectly possible without a communist government, and can be seen in other governments.

[Lare Kikkeli]

Heh, this thread is awesome. People saying they have real evidence that God exists yet can't show it, all these right wing idiots writing history again to suit their opinions better and then there's this guy who's smarter than anyone else in this thread yet is a Soviet Union apologist and hardcore communist...

 

God damn you americans are entertaining.

Edited January 2, 2010 by Lare Kikkeli

[Gorgon]

I believe the waiting list for a plywood 'trabi' was more than 6 years in East Germany, i both places people rushed to buy the second the money was in their hands because you never knew what the value would be tomorrow.

[Walsingham]

Heh, this thread is awesome... there's this guy who's smarter than anyone else in this thread yet is a Soviet Union apologist and hardcore communist...

 

"If you couldn't buy something, it's probably because it wasn't available due to poor trade relations with the United States or low supply."

 

Yeah. He's a freaking Albert Einstein, alright.

Edited January 2, 2010 by Walsingham

[Killian Kalthorne]

Heh, this thread is awesome. People saying they have real evidence that God exists yet can't show it, all these right wing idiots writing history again to suit their opinions better and then there's this guy who's smarter than anyone else in this thread yet is a Soviet Union apologist and hardcore communist...

 

God damn you americans are entertaining.

 

I never said I had real evidence of God's existence. I said I know that God exists due to a personal experience. Two completely different animals, Lare.

[Gorgon]

He's wowing Lare with his assertiveness and the knowledge that if one engages actively in a debate with him he will sometimes bother to look things up and post links. It's an impressive trick.

[Killian Kalthorne]

There were no internal travel restrictions in the Soviet Union. You could take a vacation and go to just about any part of the country (except for certain restricted zones).

 

Yet there was travel restrictions of leaving the Soviet Union, was there not? You couldn't take a plane from Moscow to London, then head on over to Chicago.

 

In the US we could go to other countries without a problem. If we want to go to France, Australia, Japan, and we had a valid passport BOOM, we go. Can the same be said of the Soviet Union, North Korea, or China?

[Gorgon]

Chinese citizens have to go through the bother of filling out a form if they want to leave the country, if that's what you mean. North Korea really is a nightmare, which doesn't make it a very good yardstick for comparison or generalization.

[Hurlshort]

Heh, this thread is awesome. People saying they have real evidence that God exists yet can't show it, all these right wing idiots writing history again to suit their opinions better and then there's this guy who's smarter than anyone else in this thread yet is a Soviet Union apologist and hardcore communist...

 

God damn you americans are entertaining.

 

I never said I had real evidence of God's existence. I said I know that God exists due to a personal experience. Two completely different animals, Lare.

 

I'm not touching Hade's other posts with a ten foot pole, but this I am in total agreement with.

[Killian Kalthorne]

I'm not touching Hade's other posts with a ten foot pole, but this I am in total agreement with.

 

But they want to touch you, Hurlie.

[Trenitay]

In the US we could go to other countries without a problem. If we want to go to France, Australia, Japan, and we had a valid passport BOOM, we go. Can the same be said of the Soviet Union, North Korea, or China?

 

But if you went to any of those countries you'd be called a commie.

[Hurlshort]

In the US we could go to other countries without a problem. If we want to go to France, Australia, Japan, and we had a valid passport BOOM, we go. Can the same be said of the Soviet Union, North Korea, or China?

 

But if you went to any of those countries you'd be called a commie.

 

By who? I have families in my community going to China all the time.

 

The odds are much more likely that you will be called a spy by China and N. Korea.

[lord of flies]

Yet there was travel restrictions of leaving the Soviet Union, was there not? You couldn't take a plane from Moscow to London, then head on over to Chicago.

 

In the US we could go to other countries without a problem. If we want to go to France, Australia, Japan, and we had a valid passport BOOM, we go. Can the same be said of the Soviet Union, North Korea, or China?

True, true. But as you said, "if we had a valid passport." Some people in the Soviet Union could leave the country. Others couldn't. They just had different rules on who could. Who is to say those rules are inherently wrong?

Heh, this thread is awesome. People saying they have real evidence that God exists yet can't show it, all these right wing idiots writing history again to suit their opinions better and then there's this guy who's smarter than anyone else in this thread yet is a Soviet Union apologist and hardcore communist...

I appreciate the compliment, but "yet"? I am smarter than anyone else in this thread, ergo I am a Soviet Union apologist and hardcore communist. Don't assume that communism is absurd or ridiculous just because that's what you've been told. Make your own decision.

He's wowing Lare with his assertiveness and the knowledge that if one engages actively in a debate with him he will sometimes bother to look things up and post links. It's an impressive trick.

The trick to always seeming more reasonable than your opponents is always being more reasonable than your opponents. While I haven't managed a perfect track record, I do try to keep posting relevant responses to the same-old, same-old questions. When your opponent keeps asking the same questions that you've already answered, it makes you look patient and learned, and makes him look like a dullard.

[Trenitay]

By who? I have families in my community going to China all the time.

 

The odds are much more likely that you will be called a spy by China and N. Korea.

 

 

Not any more of course. Back when the Soviet Union existed, mostly before Nixon I think.

Edited January 2, 2010 by awsomeness

[Hurlshort]

By who? I have families in my community going to China all the time.

 

The odds are much more likely that you will be called a spy by China and N. Korea.

 

 

Not any more of course. Back when the Soviet Union existed, mostly before Nixon I think.

 

Ah, you are talking about McCarthyism. I'm not saying there aren't still problems, but I will say there has been a good amount of progress in civil rights over the last 50 years since that era.