I could definitely imagine LoF being someone completely un-Marxist's alt.

Closing your mind off to all matters of faith can be just as stifling as closing your mind to science.

 

No, because faith has never provided any observable, measurable results. Science has.

 

Faith moves men. End of.

 

That could help justify its usefulness but not its correctness.

 

If Faith can give a man the courage to face death unflinchingly, as it has done on numerous occasions then that makes it pretty damn powerful. I accept that may make it useful, but I do not think it can be discounted, is all I am trying to say. It is real in as much as all our thoughts, dreams, and aspirations become reality through our actions.

 

I suspect that the urge to eliminate the spiritual aspect is as unhealthy as the alternative urge to eliminate the sexual which predated it. Man is more than the big head or the little head, the heart, or the hand.

Closing your mind off to all matters of faith can be just as stifling as closing your mind to science.

 

No, because faith has never provided any observable, measurable results. Science has.

 

Faith moves men. End of.

 

That could help justify its usefulness but not its correctness.

 

If Faith can give a man the courage to face death unflinchingly, as it has done on numerous occasions then that makes it pretty damn powerful. I accept that may make it useful, but I do not think it can be discounted, is all I am trying to say. It is real in as much as all our thoughts, dreams, and aspirations become reality through our actions.

 

I suspect that the urge to eliminate the spiritual aspect is as unhealthy as the alternative urge to eliminate the sexual which predated it. Man is more than the big head or the little head, the heart, or the hand.

 

So, if you kill people in the name of god, god is real?

 

I'm not buying that. Sorry.

But I disagree that the comparison to diagnostic interviews for psycho-physical disorders is poor as an analogy. As we have trust that there is actually such a disorder as depression (the physical mechanics are not completely understood or measured), and that the person explaining their symptoms agrees with the diagnostic tools for the disorder, why do we have such a difficult time saying that the God someone experiences can exist just as well?

I should have been more clear, I don't think it's bad as an analogy per se, but that it's a bad comparison because it kind of implies that there is something about religion which needs curing, along the lines of "take two lithium morning and night and you'll be an atheist in no time (actual results may vary)"

 

Have to agree with Hurlshot, that second analogy is real nice.

But I disagree that the comparison to diagnostic interviews for psycho-physical disorders is poor as an analogy. As we have trust that there is actually such a disorder as depression (the physical mechanics are not completely understood or measured), and that the person explaining their symptoms agrees with the diagnostic tools for the disorder, why do we have such a difficult time saying that the God someone experiences can exist just as well?

I should have been more clear, I don't think it's bad as an analogy per se, but that it's a bad comparison because it kind of implies that there is something about religion which needs curing, along the lines of "take two lithium morning and night and you'll be an atheist in no time (actual results may vary)"

 

Have to agree with Hurlshot, that second analogy is real nice.

Ha, I see what you mean. That is definitely a glaring point where the analogy breaks down. And thanks about the second analogy, but I rather borrowed it from Edwin Abbot's, Flatland.

If Faith can give a man the courage to face death unflinchingly, as it has done on numerous occasions then that makes it pretty damn powerful. I accept that may make it useful, but I do not think it can be discounted, is all I am trying to say...

 

So, if you kill people in the name of god, god is real?

 

I'm not buying that. Sorry.

I think all he was trying to say is that he thinks faith ought not be discounted.

 

I don't think he was endorsing a belief in an excuse for killing people.

Edited January 4, 201016 yr by Blank

You don't need faith to overcome the fear of death. You need balls of steel.

 

I've got balls of steel. Balls of steel. Balls, balls, balls of steel.

You don't need faith to overcome the fear of death. You need balls of steel.

 

I've got balls of steel. Balls of steel. Balls, balls, balls of steel.

 

If you have balls of steel you won't have to worry about any unplanned pregnancies. Might have a problem getting pass airport security though.

You don't need faith to overcome the fear of death. You need balls of steel.

 

I've got balls of steel. Balls of steel. Balls, balls, balls of steel.

 

If you have balls of steel you won't have to worry about any unplanned pregnancies. Might have a problem getting pass airport security though.

 

Not in Manchester...UK

So, if you kill people in the name of god, god is real?

 

I'm not buying that. Sorry.

 

Whereas you seem to be saying that because something isn't nice it ISN'T real.

 

As Blank says I'm just saying don't discount a force which can move people in ways nothing else can.

 

I've met some insanely tough guys and one they all agree on is that however irreligious they are normally, when the **** hits the fan you start hunting for your dredel.

There are no atheists in foxholes.

There are no atheists in foxholes.

 

There are no atheists in foxholes.

 

Yes, but are there foxholes in atheists?

What, like actual holes dug by foxes.

Why yes, I do think that Megan could use a shovel.

In any case in the face of your own imminent demise there are few people who would not start praying just on instinct, hypocrisy be damned.

 

Incidentally, who thinks god is not real just because we created him(her). Whether he is just an elaborate joint psychological construct or not, he still real to a whole lot of people, and and everyone deals with the reality created by his worshipers. It ought to make one consider the nature of knowledge, especially if you are one of those people who insist on discussing religion entirely in empirical terms.

What, like actual holes dug by foxes.

 

 

Just in case you dont know, a "foxhole" is a hole dug by infantry troops to hide in. The saying "there are no atheists in foxholes" is meant to convey that everyone believes in a god while hiding in a foxhole during a battle.

It's difficult to convey irony in text, I thought I did reasonably well though. I don't know how you live to be an adult and not know what a foxhole is.

How many twenty somethings actually seen a foxhole do you think there are, Gorgon?

Heh, I wasnt trying to talk down, I just wasnt sure if there was something lost in translation.

You leave Bill Murray out of this!

You leave Bill Murray out of this!

It was a terrible movie of infinite boredom...

 

Oh, and my personal favorite quote... 'Wherever you go, there you are'.

I have to admit, some of these threads are like a car wreck. One decides to do other stuff than come here, yet something like this (and a couple other threads) boggles the mind enough to make me

 

Anyways, carry on.

I think I derailed it with my balls of steel comment.

A troll thread got off topic!? Oh noes!

 

You should bring up your balls of steel more often.