Capitalism is un-Christian.

[lord of flies]

The Bible teaches Christians many things; the ethic of reciprocity, the principles of charity, the importance of being earnest. But it seems as though the religion has been twisted in the interest of the rich, the powerful, and the conquerors, and in general the most unkind and unjust sort of people.

 

Jesus teaches that to be rich is to be wrong.

 

In Luke, a version of Jesus's famous "Blessed are the poor" speech appears in Chapter 6. However, this version (presumably inspired by God himself) includes an additional note. In Luke 6:20, Jesus says "Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God." But in a sharp contrast, he goes on to say in 6:24, "But woe to you who are rich, for you have already received your comfort."

 

This is, of course, not the only time that Jesus speaks ill of the rich! Another story comes when Jesus is asked by a man to arbitrate a dispute over inheritance in Luke, chapter 12. He begins by saying "Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; a man's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions." He tells a story of a man who stores up much for himself on this earth, believing he is now set for life. But God appears and says "You fool! This very night your life will be demanded from you. Then who will get what you have prepared for yourself?"

 

The very next story Jesus tells is to consider the animals and plants of the earth. They do not store up for themselves, but the Lord still feeds them. So, he says: "Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father has been pleased to give you the kingdom. Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will not be exhausted, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."

 

Jesus teaches that self-denial and charity are prime virtues, necessary to get to heaven.

 

At one point, Jesus tells a story of a rich man and a beggar named Lazarus. Lazarus is poor, incredibly poor, and hungry all the time. The rich man is provided for, dressed in fine clothes. But when they die, the tables turn! Abraham explains why this is in Luke 16:25-26: "Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us." Note that Abraham mentions no sins the rich man has committed; as far as the story is concerned, he is damned for his wealth alone.

 

Another story highlighting this theme appears in Matthew 19. As the story goes, a young man has great wealth, but he has kept every commandment. He has not murdered, he has not committed adultery, he has honored his mother, and so forth. What does Jesus tell the young man that he must do to "have treasure in heaven?" He says, "go, sell your possessions and give to the poor." The young man is saddened and leaves, though we are not told whether he made the right decision or not.

 

We find a third story with such a point in Matthew 25:31-46, which I shall simply reproduce in its entirety here since it's difficult to cut down anyway:

"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

 

"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

 

"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

 

"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

 

"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

 

"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

 

"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

 

"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

[I want teh kotor 3]

So?

 

Also, straight from the Bible: "Thou shall not steal."

[lord of flies]

So?

 

Also, straight from the Bible: "Thou shall not steal."

Pharisees: "Is it right to pay taxes to Caesar or not?"

Jesus: "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's"

[I want teh kotor 3]

Seriously though, why do I give a flying ****? I'm not Christian.

[Morgoth]

Why then even post in this thread if you don't give a flying ****?

[Purkake]

I want teh kotor 3, if you aren't a joke character, I'm very sorry for you

[Hurlshort]

This isn't really a revelation, no pun intended.

[Guard Dog]

*Sigh*... One troll thread wasn't enough huh?

 

 

Yes Christianity teaches selflesness. I am a Christian and I do believe in that. But you are missing a pretty major point. Becoming Christian is a choice everyone must make for themselves. We do not coerce. Under communisim if you do not go along you get a bullet in the head or get shipped off to a cold place to be worked to death. In fact in your other thread you seemd to think this was a good thing.

[Calax]

*Sigh*... One troll thread wasn't enough huh?

 

 

Yes Christianity teaches selflesness. I am a Christian and I do believe in that. But you are missing a pretty major point. Becoming Christian is a choice everyone must make for themselves. We do not coerce. Under communisim if you do not go along you get a bullet in the head or get shipped off to a cold place to be worked to death. In fact in your other thread you seemd to think this was a good thing.

Depends on your definition of coercion I think. Communists just have the power to enforce their threats while Christians don't. It's an odd contrast to hear "Why can't we be friends!?" and "YOU'RE GONNA BURN IN HELL IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN THE ALMIGHTY DUDE IN THE SKY WHO MADE ZOMBIES!" from the same person

Edited December 28, 2009 by Calax

[Purkake]

A christian with an Ayn Rand quote in his sig? This thread will go places.

[I want teh kotor 3]

Why then even post in this thread if you don't give a flying ****?

 

Because I'm curious why he thinks I care that capitalism supposedly goes against a religion I don't follow,

 

I want teh kotor 3, if you aren't a joke character, I'm very sorry for you

 

Why? Because I'm not Christian?

[Walsingham]

*Sigh*... One troll thread wasn't enough huh?

[taks]

"YOU'RE GONNA BURN IN HELL IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN THE ALMIGHTY DUDE IN THE SKY WHO MADE ZOMBIES!"

that's not something all christians believe from what i understand.

 

taks

[Mikhailian]

Becoming Christian is a choice everyone must make for themselves. We do not coerce.

 

Thousands of dead Muslims would like to have a word with you regarding The Crusades... but they can't. Because they're dead.

[lord of flies]

that's not something all christians believe from what i understand.

Correct, if you read the quotes I provided, you'll find that the actual reason for going to hell is being a selfish rich prick.

Because I'm curious why he thinks I care that capitalism supposedly goes against a religion I don't follow,

Oh, I see. The confusion comes from the topic title DEAR I WANT TEH KOTOR 3: Capitalism is un-Christian.

 

btw, mods, change the topic title to DEAR I WANT TEH KOTOR 3: Capitalism is un-Christian.

Yes Christianity teaches selflesness. I am a Christian and I do believe in that. But you are missing a pretty major point. Becoming Christian is a choice everyone must make for themselves. We do not coerce. Under communisim if you do not go along you get a bullet in the head or get shipped off to a cold place to be worked to death. In fact in your other thread you seemd to think this was a good thing.

Actually, Christianity often teaches submission to government authority, e.g. the "give to Caesar what is Ceasar's" quote.

[Purkake]

I want teh kotor 3, if you aren't a joke character, I'm very sorry for you

 

Why? Because I'm not Christian?

My point, ladies and gentlemen.

[Blank]

Christians can be the severest hypocrites in my opinion. Which is extremely unfortunate to say, because I consider myself part of the Church. I acknowledge and lament the poor decisions of so-called Christians who have treated others without the love of Christ.

 

Christian hypocrisy comes in many forms, and I agree with Lord of Flies that the things Jesus says about riches and possessions should be taken much more seriously, not just ignored altogether as it seems to be done by several so-called Christians.

[taks]

Christians can be the severest hypocrites in my opinion.

it is impossible to blindly follow any ideology without hypocrisy.

 

taks

[Walsingham]

What I love is how our resident dictatorship fanboy* is so against people deciding how to disburse their money according to their privately chosen religious inclinations.

 

 

*see previous threads for my explanation of why communism can only be sustained through use of force.

[Blank]

Christians can be the severest hypocrites in my opinion.

it is impossible to blindly follow any ideology without hypocrisy.

 

taks

I agree with your logic, but not with the implied premise that to believe in Christianity, one must blindly follow it. I would propose that those who truly open their eyes and see are the ones who believe and follow.

[lord of flies]

communism can only be sustained through use of force.

Unless your ideal government is a federation of revolutionary communes, all governments can only be sustained through use of force.

[Tigranes]

Actually, Christianity often teaches submission to government authority, e.g. the "give to Caesar what is Ceasar's" quote.

 

While lof has horribly misunderstood this particular quote, the former still tends to be true in many cases. Of course, it's not actually true as a general rule, because it doesn't come from that quote or biblical story.

 

it is impossible to blindly follow any ideology without hypocrisy.

 

At some point, I wonder which is better, to be left without ideology or to carry with you some hypocrisy.

[lord of flies]

While lof has horribly misunderstood this particular quote, the former still tends to be true in many cases. Of course, it's not actually true as a general rule, because it doesn't come from that quote or biblical story.

Paying taxes is submission to government authority, period. I didn't really feel like drudging up the quote from 1 Timothy 2:1-2.

[Tigranes]

If you are trying to argue that the Christian faith in general and in practice has obliged the submission to government authority in any significant way, you're not really going about proving it.

[Guard Dog]

Becoming Christian is a choice everyone must make for themselves. We do not coerce.

 

Thousands of dead Muslims would like to have a word with you regarding The Crusades... but they can't. Because they're dead.

Oh, right. Good point there and very relevant to the world today. I mean, heck, that just happened last month right? I can certainly see how Christinas today might feel bad about it you know. Why I just got back from killing muslims in Acre myself just last week. Deus Vult and all that. While you are at it why not trot out the inquisition, destruction and forced conversions of the Aztecs, Incas, Patagonians, Insert-Native-Population-Name-Here. Being Christian means I have to answer for all of that crap too right? Why is it everytime on this board someone mentions that there just might...might be a glimmer of virtue in the Chrstian religion every horrible act done in its name by people hundreds or even thousands of years dead gets brought up to impugn the entire philosophy and everyone who follows it?

 

The one I really feel sorry for is God. Imagine having to watch all the horrors humanity has commited in His name.

Edited December 28, 2009 by Guard Dog