Dragon Age: Tactics

[mr insomniac]

I also got the edge for free the other day. Soon as I started the gme, the EA EULA popped up, and when I accepted it, another popup showed "new content downloaded" or something like that.

[Monte Carlo]

--- More Roguishness ---

 

I tried Recliffe Castle with three rogues and a mage (Morrigan). I viewed it as a commando-mission-come-burglary opportunity.

 

The game plays very differently. We used the whole gamut of thiefly tactics - backstab, sneaking, bombs, poison, traps and it worked very well, but I'd suggest that the mage is still essential for crowd control (3 backstabbing rogues on a frozen mob is pretty effective). Imoen Chick is best configured as a pure archer, though, in my humble.

 

Basically, if you like lots of micromanagement, you'll have a blast with the rogues although it would be a bit much even for me to play like this all the way through... I might try the Brescilian Forest / Elf ruins though, just for a laugh. If you like only managing one or two characters and have the rest do their own thing then Imoen Chick is good because you can configure her tactics slots to just stand back and shoot people.

 

Traps are underrated, and MC tip of the day is give the skill to a non rogue because those points have to go somewhere.

 

As for stealing, Imoen Chick pickpockets everybody and although you're picking up fairly minor items it all adds up (equivalent of a gold coin from a quick pilfer of the court at Redcliffe for example).

 

Cheers

MC

[HoonDing]

Basically, if you like lots of micromanagement, you'll have a blast with the rogues although it would be a bit much even for me to play like this all the way through... I might try the Brescilian Forest / Elf ruins though, just for a laugh. If you like only managing one or two characters and have the rest do their own thing then Imoen Chick is good because you can configure her tactics slots to just stand back and shoot people.

And there's the rub for me. My Dalish Elf playthrough will basically feature a Leliana-clone combat wise just for this reason. With some stealth & traps thrown in for a bit more variety.

Edited December 5, 2009 by virumor

[jaguars4ever]

I also got the edge for free the other day.

"Hey, I'm not that easy. Gamers need loving too, but they gotta pay."

[Monte Carlo]

^ one rogue is fine, two is fiddly, three is a nightmare unless you configure the tactics slots just so.

 

I'm now on Tier 3 stealth and have configured my main character to automatically stealth in combat, he's sort of auto-backstabbing most of the time, hmmm well mebbe 50% but that's not bad. A mod that allowed you to set a combat tab for backstab (as opposed to stealth) will be a very valuable addition for rogues in DA.

 

FWIW I use the rogue blood ability from WK much more than the warrior ones (and the fact that one is passive is a real result).

[Tigranes]

No dagger for me, but I never connect and haven't even patched.

 

The archer is amazing, by the way. At level 10 Leliana was doing 200-300 damage on Arrow of Slaying on frozen targets; shattering her share with Critical Hits and generally doing more damage than Shale, and as effective as DW Alistair. I managed to get rid of all the revenants in the Brescilian Forest at level 8-9 on Nightmare by having Shale taunt then force-field, Alistair/Leliana plucking away and the mage healing / CoC. Have since done Redcliffe and now Circle Tower with hardly any deaths. Since Shale's bugging again I took Wynne instead, but gave her spells that don't need micro at all - hexes, healing, etc.

 

Bombs and poisons are good, as already attested, but traps yes are useful too if used right. I took down the most troublesome revenant (Bresc. Forest first area, with the skeleton mage) by putting the leghold traps on the skeletons and a big AOE trap where he should awaken.

[HoonDing]

I'm sure rogues work fine, but it just seems too much work for the same result. Use a mage instead of a rogue and battles end thrice as fast.

 

And if one wants to be smart and sneak into a room to fill it with traps, one just runs into an enemy trigger 3/4 of the time. Much simpler to just unleash a couple of AoE arcane combos and be done with it.

Edited December 5, 2009 by virumor

[Monte Carlo]

I wonder if the game was designed with this in mind, initially I thought it was because the class was gimped. Or maybe I'm being generous.

 

You have to be fairly patient to build and play a decent rogue without dying every five minutes. The same is not true of warriors or mages (unless you go 2H warrior, that's another finesse build).

[HoonDing]

I'm worried about these mysterious game additions installing without me even knowing. Next BioWare's new patch will automatically download & install and destroy my Kensai Mage build by nerfing Shimmering Shield.

[~Di]

From what I'm reading, there is a tactics trick to keep Leilana from dumping her bow and backstabbing at the first opportunity. Please share. I'm sick of screaming at her to put down the daggers and pick up the stupid bow. Yes, I could take away all of her melee toys, but that takes away an option that I may need to use on occasion... when I want to use it, not when she wants to use it.

 

Stubborn woman. Come on, gimme tactics secret... please?

[Oner]

Don't give her daggers.

 

What?

 

 

Alright alright, tell her to use bows when someone attacks her with melee weapons.

[mr insomniac]

I also got the edge for free the other day.

"Hey, I'm not that easy. Gamers need loving too, but they gotta pay."

heh...perhaps I should have said "the new dagger" instead.

[Monte Carlo]

Di,

 

Go into her Tactics tab and simply enter as a condition SELF > ENEMY and action > USE RANGED WEAPONS removing any references to melee, swapping them with ranged weapons too.

[Gorgon]

How do you get them to dafault to ranged, and switch to mele once the enemy closes. (for tanks to shoot and draw agro)

 

Also can you have just some of your party hold ground while the rest run in.

[Oner]

Also can you have just some of your party hold ground while the rest run in.

AFAIK you can't.

Also, telling them to switch to melee is crap, because if, say, Leliana attacks mob A, and mob B attacks her in melee, she'll change to melee...and happily hacks away at mob A, ignoring mob B completely.

[Monte Carlo]

More Rogue Update

 

In the original Baldur's Gate I played, IIRC, a ranger or a paladin for nostalgic reasons. Then I picked up Coran the wise-cracking fighter / thief and discovered that with his archery skills (BG1 was sick as far as archery was concerned), backstab and stealth he was pretty un-stoppable. I would leave the entire party at the mouth of the dungeon and have lots of fun clearing it with Coran.

 

Then I realised that it wasn't right, having that much fun with a freaking NPC. So I re-started, made a fighter-thief and never looked back. So I had high hopes for Dragon Age - I wanted to re-create that experience. When I first made a rogue all I could do, because there was no real frame of reference for what the rules meant, was die as a not-very-good light fighter. DEX and CUNNING? Hugh? Now that I've worked it out I can tell you I was wrong (but a casual gamer without the trial and error I've put in might not get the same result, which is a shame).

 

You can make the ultimate commando character with this game, the level clearing Death God that Coran was in BG1. I've just cleared out the Brescilian ruins, virtually single-handed with a level 13 rogue. I need backup for bosses and revenants but mobs? No problem.

 

The key is Tier 4 stealth, carefully selected combat skills, bombs and (most importantly) HIGH CUNNING. I don't have trap-making as a skill but my high (40) Cunning allows me to de-trap almost anything. I can backstab, attract aggro, dual weapon sweep (with passive DW skills my vanilla attack is still in the high twenties - yes I have lethality), throw a bomb then stealth out again. The game even allows me to use objects as cover whilst I reorganise, those pesky skeleton archers only wing me.

 

Like I said before, this isn't everyone's cup of tea but I take my hat off to the designers, you can do a great deal of fun stuff with this class... it's just a shame you have to work it out for yourself.

 

Cheers

MC

[HoonDing]

I use the following tactic for Leliana: "Enemy: Nearest visible mage -> Use ability: Arrow of Slaying"

 

But I notice she's still randomly using Arrow of Slaying on anything when there's no mage around, which just wastes an ability. Is this normal?

[jaguars4ever]

^High Cunning can carry your rogue alone if he's meleeing, but high dex will singlehandedly make your archer into a god. Aim + Rapid Aim + Scattershot + Arrow of Slaying = Coran & Kivan slaying Drizzt by themselves level of godhood.

[Gorgon]

I have been really annoyed that my elf mage, the first char I bothered to finish the intro level with now has a really inneficient skillset. Can someone suggest a strong fun build.

[Monte Carlo]

^ I just haven't had the spare points to go archery but every character in my party has a missile weapon, I've got the twinky auto-Xbow that does 10.8 base damage from WK.

 

Even this is pretty useful, enemy mages go down pretty quickly as Sten, my Rogue and Alistair pepper him with arrows and Morrigan lays down AoE spells.

 

So I can imagine how potent a dedicated archer would be, I'm tentatively involved in making a DA mod with some other people and I think I'll design an archer warrior NPC for it.

[jaguars4ever]

I have been really annoyed that my elf mage, the first char I bothered to finish the intro level with now has a really inneficient skillset. Can someone suggest a strong fun build.

-Kensai-mage (Arcane Warrior/Blood Mage Unkillable Death Tank/Gish-er);

-Mage-killer (100% magic resistant Templar);

-Arrow-slayer (Master rogue archer);

[Monte Carlo]

I have been really annoyed that my elf mage, the first char I bothered to finish the intro level with now has a really inneficient skillset. Can someone suggest a strong fun build.

 

:: shrugs :: no shortage of great mage options - plenty of the guys here have crushed the game on Hard with various builds.

 

The consensus is that the Blood Mage / Arcane Warrior is the Kensai / Mage twink build of DA. You unlock those in-game.

 

Personally, when I re-specced Morrigan for the first time I took all the fire spells up to Tier 4 - that inferno one is stupid powerful and bags of fun. The spells are also symbiotic - you can freeze people then shatter them (i.e. stonefist) for example.

 

Pump MAGIC and some WILLPOWER, choose one elemental route (the ice one is also pretty essential) and one other route. Force field is extremely useful, and the sleep / waking nightmare is great for mobs.

 

As for sub-classes - shapechanger sucks. Healer is great if you want to, er, heal (NPCs job IMO) but Arcane Warrior does a straight swap out of MAGIC for STR so you can cut about as a mage wearing Dragon Bone armour and carrying swords. Admit it, that's exactly where you want to be!

 

Cheers

MC

[Monte Carlo]

^ Yeah, if you're talking across the classes -

 

Melee Panzer - Warrior / Reaver / Beserker with all the shield talents

 

Slice & Dice - Warrior DW with high DEX and medium armour

 

Stealth Commando - Rogue with impossibly high DEX and CUNNING, Tier 4 stealth, throw in some DW skills and the assassin / duellist sub-classes

 

I've not tried 2H warrior yet, nor pure rogue / archer (unless you count Imoen chick, who is like something out of Day of the Jackal with all the archery talents).

[Gorgon]

Yes I have been looking for the tome to make me arcane warrior or bloodmage for some time now for just that reason, armor. Weapons aren't going to make much of a difference what with my attack rating still so low. What area is the arcane warrior tome/npc in ?

[HoonDing]

Arcane Warrior's attack rating is always going to be mediocre, unless your spellpower is very high which is a no-go since AWs need high willpower to toggle all the sustainables. I only picked it for Shimmering Shield so I could solo dragons.

 

Even without wearing armour, my mage has a higher armour rating than Sten/Oghren in dragonbone armour with Rock armour activated & dressed in Reaper's vestments. Even Alistair's armour rating isn't too far away.

 

From what I'm reading, there is a tactics trick to keep Leilana from dumping her bow and backstabbing at the first opportunity. Please share. I'm sick of screaming at her to put down the daggers and pick up the stupid bow. Yes, I could take away all of her melee toys, but that takes away an option that I may need to use on occasion... when I want to use it, not when she wants to use it.

 

Stubborn woman. Come on, gimme tactics secret... please?

I set her from "default" to "ranged" behaviour.

Edited December 6, 2009 by virumor