Einstein debunked?

[Lare Kikkeli]

Just read this and holy **** why hasn't it been in the news more? If this turns out to be true it would be the scientific discovery of the century.

 

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article....time-from-space

 

Was Newton right and Einstein wrong? It seems that unzipping the fabric of spacetime and harking back to 19th-century notions of time could lead to a theory of quantum gravity.

 

Physicists have struggled to marry quantum mechanics with gravity for decades. In contrast, the other forces of nature have obediently fallen into line. For instance, the electromagnetic force can be described quantum-mechanically by the motion of photons. Try and work out the gravitational force between two objects in terms of a quantum graviton, however, and you quickly run into trouble

[kirottu]

That is pretty cool.

[Wrath of Dagon]

It was from the giant mattress they used for the Big Bang.

 

This does sound important, sounds like they're still debating it though. Also I don't think it negates the theory of relativity, it seems to be a refinement where gravity is concerned.

Edited December 1, 2009 by Wrath of Dagon

[Blarghagh]

I am not nearly smart enough to read this and understand it properly.

 

But it sounds pretty impressive!

[Lare Kikkeli]

It kind of negates it, as it separates time from space at high energies. Not totally, Einsteins theory will still be correct under normal (our) circumstances but as far as I understand gravity actually behaves differently from how Einstein figured it does.

[Rosbjerg]

Very interesting indeed, it's a definite bonus that the current acceleration of the universe can be explained, by this new theory, without resorting to invisible matter..

 

Seems like Dark Matter was the Ether Theory of our time then.

[GreasyDogMeat]

Wow, I take it that the Dark Matter theory and the Big Bounce theory can't exist together? I've heard that under the Dark Matter theory the universe would continue expanding until all matter was pulled apart and the universe ended under a big freeze as planets and matter becomes farther and farther apart. Under the Bounce I'm taking it we're back to the Universe collapsing and then bouncing back?

 

While we'll be dead either way (assuming we survive each other, find space flight and new worlds and manage not to have some world ending catastrophe in the process) I like the idea of the Big Bounce as it sounds like life might stand a chance of developing a gajillion years in the future.

 

Come on Universe, bounce with me! Can I get a woop-woop?

[Walsingham]

I think Horava gravity sounds far more scifi, and it tehrefore must be true.

[213374U]

Also I don't think it negates the theory of relativity, it seems to be a refinement where gravity is concerned.

It does, if true, conflict with general relativity. Special relativity is a different matter.

[alanschu]

Remind me:

 

General Relativity is pretty much "just" Special Relativity with gravity taken into consideration, right?

 

All I remember at the moment is General Relativity was much harder to understand than Special Relativity

[Wrath of Dagon]

Yeah, I was thinking special relativity, I didn't even realize there was general relativity. It's all on Wikipedia of course.

[Pidesco]

Putting things that way, I'd say it's more the other way around: General relativity is gravity within the framework of special relativity.

 

 

 

Anyway, I hope this isn't true but that's just because I find GR quite beautiful and elegant. I wonder who Francisco Lobo is. I never heard of the guy.

[Lare Kikkeli]

Anyway, I hope this isn't true but that's just because I find GR quite beautiful and elegant. I wonder who Francisco Lobo is. I never heard of the guy.

 

Why do you hope that? If this isn't true it still leaves a hole in Einsteins theories, and we need a new theory to fill it. It's either this or something else.

[Calax]

btw that was only the first page in the OP

 

Hořava

[Nightshape]

I think Horava gravity sounds far more scifi, and it tehrefore must be true.

 

This is indeed perfect logic.

[Pidesco]

Anyway, I hope this isn't true but that's just because I find GR quite beautiful and elegant. I wonder who Francisco Lobo is. I never heard of the guy.

 

Why do you hope that? If this isn't true it still leaves a hole in Einsteins theories, and we need a new theory to fill it. It's either this or something else.

 

 

It isn't so much a hole in Einstein's theories, but rather in modern physics. It's a fundamental incompatibility between the standard model and GR that's the problem. If I were to venture a guess I'd say it's the standard model that's incomplete, on account of it being an ugly, "glued together with spit" mess of a thing. Of course, my opinion is just an aesthetic consideration based on what I think physical laws ought to be.

 

Turns out Lobo must have worked with one of my best friends. I'll have to investigate further.

[Lare Kikkeli]

Well, the hole is that GR/SR breaks on the quantum level and in black hole singularities. This theory could explain some of the things SR doesn't.

[alanschu]

That's true but that's not necessarily a debunking.

[Lare Kikkeli]

Not really no, the topic name is a bit of hyperbole. I used to work in advertisement

 

It's the same thing as when GR replaced Newtonian physics. Newtons rules are still widely used when you're making simple calculations, but GR & SR are the more accurate ones.

[Pidesco]

Newtonian laws are used in situations where relativistic effects are negligible, but that doesn't mean the calculations are simple. There's no reason to use relativistic mechanics in plenty of situations.

[Lare Kikkeli]

That was a typo, it's supposed to be simpler, which the calculations where Newtonian laws are used are.

[I want teh kotor 3]

Holy ****... But I have to say, I'm going with Einstein over this sacrilegious punk...

[Mikhailian]

It's funny, I came up with a similar concept while on a... let's just call it a chemically induced sabbatical. My thoughts kept recentering on the idea that the nature of matter, energy, the universe as whole deny the very concept of a beginning or an end. That many things can exhibit dual natured wavelike properties under certain circumstances. Really, it seams the entire universe and everything in it possesses wave like properties and demonstratable patterns. It occured to me that it could be a reflection of the past and the fundamental nature of the universe, played out from the extremes of the finite "beginning", through the current makeup or pattern, to the eventual upper threshold or "end". Neither term is really apt, but simply relatable. What I'm really thinking of put simply is that the universe is an oscillating (expanding and contracting) waveform. There is no beggining or end.

[Gorth]

There is probably a name for people who quote themselves, but who cares

 

Which is why completely new thinking is required...

 

As long as there are people who think we are limited by the speed of light, we will be limited by it.

 

It doesn't matter if people have a go at theories with hammer and chisel if necessary, as long as they try to expand out visions.

[Rosbjerg]

It's funny, I came up with a similar concept while on a... let's just call it a chemically induced sabbatical. My thoughts kept recentering on the idea that the nature of matter, energy, the universe as whole deny the very concept of a beginning or an end. That many things can exhibit dual natured wavelike properties under certain circumstances. Really, it seams the entire universe and everything in it possesses wave like properties and demonstratable patterns. It occurred to me that it could be a reflection of the past and the fundamental nature of the universe, played out from the extremes of the finite "beginning", through the current make-up or pattern, to the eventual upper threshold or "end". Neither term is really apt, but simply relatable. What I'm really thinking of put simply is that the universe is an oscillating (expanding and contracting) waveform. There is no beginning or end.

 

Read some Philip K D1ck, which I kinda assume you already have. He has some pretty cool.. induced.. ideas as well. Although he mostly tend to theorize on the nature of time. Valis is especially trippy and interesting in this regard. Your word phrasings reminded me of it, which is why I'm mentioning it.