Genuine courage

[Purkake]

Pfff, my gifs are way funnier.

[Hiro Protagonist]

I'm a hero. Worship me you sycophants!

[I want teh kotor 3]

People attack your posts, teh kotor, because you aren't in lockstep with prevalent views. Plus they are a little excessive sometimes, but most of them are here.

 

Rhetorical and sarcastic question. Thanks though, I probably should have /sarcasm'd or similar.

 

 

Pfff, my gifs are way funnier.

 

Yes. That MJ one was hilarious, for some reason I'm not quite sure about. Continuing the trend:

 

[Hiro Protagonist]

Why is it that every opinion I post leads to people attacking me?

 

I added the Jewish thing, as Hurlshot, and apparently only Hurlshot, had the analytical skills to point out, to put my opinion in context: I'm highly biased, and I thought that would probably be necessary to add in my post. I guess not.

 

Other groups were persecuted by the nazi's. My mum was a Jehovah's Witness, my Uncle was a homosexual, my grandfather was a political dissident, my aunt had a Physical and Mental Disability, my father's next door neighbour was jewish and they lived in a gypsy community. Tough time was had by all. So MY opinion means more than anyone else on this board because I have more experience than anyone else.

[Trenitay]

I don't think he said that at all. I think he jsut explained why he was biased, not why he was better than you.

[I want teh kotor 3]

I don't think he said that at all. I think he jsut explained why he was biased, not why he was better than you.

 

 

Thank you. Finally. I think that's a whole two people who understand a simple disclaimer. Miyamoto be praised.

[Purkake]

Shouldn't the natural response to realizing that you are biased be to get rid of that bias? It's nothing to be proud of, all it does is color your actions and opinions.

 

Being objective would be better, no?

[Trenitay]

But your bias is saying bias is bad. How hypocritical of you.

[lord of flies]

Volunteer soldiers are morally culpable for the behavior of their government. We could make arguments about the moral culpability of draftees, but let's not.

 

A volunteer soldier who joins the military of a nation which is engaged or engages in wars of aggression (e.g. Nazi Germany, modern Israel, the USA) is morally culpable for those crimes. A volunteer soldier who is in a military with endemic corruption and commission of war crimes (e.g. Nazi Germany, modern Israel) is also culpable for those crimes, assuming he does little to nothing to stop them.

 

Members of the Wehrmacht may not have been aware of the holocaust, but they were definitely aware that their government had declared war on Poland, France, the United States, the Soviet Union, et cetera. They were also aware that their country was racist and authoritarian.

 

Similarly, members of the IDF might not personally engage in stuff like "breaking the bones of handcuffed prisoners so they can't escape," but they exist in a military that invades Palestine without any reasonable causus belli and in which it is very difficult to imagine a member of the IDF who is unaware of its bombing civilian targets, use of chemical weapons, looting, et cetera. That's not even getting into the extremely racially charged society of Israel itself, which a member of the IDF would also be aware of and be aware he is "defending."

[Hurlshort]

Shouldn't the natural response to realizing that you are biased be to get rid of that bias? It's nothing to be proud of, all it does is color your actions and opinions.

 

Being objective would be better, no?

 

I'm not sure how being biased against Nazi soldiers is really an issue today. He isn't claiming to hate a race of people or anything like that.

 

And we all carry around biases, it's a part of who we are as individuals. The biggest thing you can do is be willing to recognize where those biases might affect your judgment. We are discussing our opinions on a forum here, it's not like he's carrying his bias into a courtroom and making a ruling on a neo-nazi or something.

[Walsingham]

It's all balls. Believe me, when push comes to shove and you need to risk your neck then all kinds of helpful qualms pop up out of nowhere, about the sanity of the moral you are defending, the value of the people you want to halep. I'm not a war veteran, but I have risked my lief to help people when the situation looked decidely sticky. If you allow yourself to do anything but act then you will be a coward.

 

And if you think heroes help dictators and bastards you should see how helpful cowards are.

[Aristes]

And if you think heroes help dictators and bastards you should see how helpful cowards are.

QFT

[213374U]

I don't think he said that at all. I think he jsut explained why he was biased, not why he was better than you.

Being biased is inevitable. However, being proud of (or merely accepting) one's own recognized bias is bad, m'kay?

 

Openly using that bias to justify bald-faced hate is childish, stupid and very dangerous. But we are supposed to smile paternally and let it go because it's a) a Jew doing it and b) a young Jew. Neither is an excuse, folks.

 

 

~stuff

Well, there's heroes, and then there's "Hero of the Soviet Union"-s.

 

 

I'm not sure how being biased against Nazi soldiers is really an issue today. He isn't claiming to hate a race of people or anything like that.

It's pretty cool how deeply you have mastered doublethink. So, because it's kotorchum doing it, German soldiers = NAZI. Everyone else must be very careful with the distinctions between Waffen-SS, Wehrmacht, Gestapo, SD, party officials, etc.

[Lare Kikkeli]

This thread needs more Wrath of Dagon

[Gorth]

Everyone else must be very careful with the distinctions between Waffen-SS, Wehrmacht, Gestapo, SD, party officials, etc.

I wonder how many recognise the irony in comparing Wehrmacht to Waffen SS, considering the latter was created exactly because the little guy with the beard never trusted the Wehrmacht. Waffen SS' main purpose (originally) was to protect him against "internal threats" (both SA and the Wehrmacht). Yet half a century later, few people distinguishes between them.

[Cycloneman]

It's pretty cool how deeply you have mastered doublethink. So, because it's kotorchum doing it, German soldiers = NAZI. Everyone else must be very careful with the distinctions between Waffen-SS, Wehrmacht, Gestapo, SD, party officials, etc.

German soldiers were literally Nazis between 1933-1945. I'm sure some minority of them got involved out of ****ed-up nationalism, but the Nazis achieved a state of silent consent, especially in the military; any soldier who was not a Nazi was at best a Nazi-enabler.

[Lare Kikkeli]

It's pretty cool how deeply you have mastered doublethink. So, because it's kotorchum doing it, German soldiers = NAZI. Everyone else must be very careful with the distinctions between Waffen-SS, Wehrmacht, Gestapo, SD, party officials, etc.

German soldiers were literally Nazis between 1933-1945. I'm sure some minority of them got involved out of ****ed-up nationalism, but the Nazis achieved a state of silent consent, especially in the military; any soldier who was not a Nazi was at best a Nazi-enabler.

 

That's quite a generalization... Do you have anything to back that up with? Large scale interviews? Studies on the subject? Or are you just jewish as well?

[Moose]

I hear what Aram's saying but it wasn't the same world back then. They saw it all so differently.

[Cycloneman]

That's quite a generalization... Do you have anything to back that up with? Large scale interviews? Studies on the subject? Or are you just jewish as well?

Why would you need something to "back up" the idea that the military controlled by the Nazi regime which participated in wars for Nazi benefit on the basis of Nazi ideology is comprised of Nazis and Nazi-enablers?

[Lare Kikkeli]

That's quite a generalization... Do you have anything to back that up with? Large scale interviews? Studies on the subject? Or are you just jewish as well?

Why would you need something to "back up" the idea that the military controlled by the Nazi regime which participated in wars for Nazi benefit on the basis of Nazi ideology is comprised of Nazis and Nazi-enablers?

 

You're making the mistake of demonizing nazis. Large scale genocide has been committed around the world in diffrerent cultures throughout times (Turkey and Armenia, Hutu-Tutsi conflict etc. Hell, some of the things europeans did in the Americas and Australia makes the holocaust pale in comparison). Most of germans and hell even nazi party members were probably just like you and me.

[Cycloneman]

You're making the mistake of demonizing nazis. Large scale genocide has been committed around the world in diffrerent cultures throughout times (Turkey and Armenia, Hutu-Tutsi conflict etc. Hell, some of the things europeans did in the Americas and Australia makes the holocaust pale in comparison). Most of germans and hell even nazi party members were probably just like you and me.

And...?

[213374U]

German soldiers were literally Nazis between 1933-1945. I'm sure some minority of them got involved out of ****ed-up nationalism, but the Nazis achieved a state of silent consent, especially in the military; any soldier who was not a Nazi was at best a Nazi-enabler.

Yeah, the good ol' "if you ain't with us, you're against us". Again, there was conscription in Germany since 1935; ~5M men in the 1939 Wehrmacht from a 100,000 men Reichswehr in 1933.

 

I suppose you are suggesting that everyone should have dodged the draft at that time because, well, the Nazis were in power? Interestingly, draft dodgers often joined the SS, to avoid military service.

 

Hindsight is such a wonderful thing...

 

 

Why would you need something to "back up" the idea that the military controlled by the Nazi regime which participated in wars for Nazi benefit on the basis of Nazi ideology is comprised of Nazis and Nazi-enablers?

Because the army serves the state and the people and not the Party or the person of the Head of State?

 

Your argument for passive support has some merit, but then, you can extend that to all Germans that didn't actively fight the Nazis. Were they, by your reasoning, Nazis by extension? Why don't we start digging into the reasons why Hitler's hate drivel found so much acceptance with the German people?

 

Say, what have you done lately, putting your own life at risk, to fight tyranny and injustice? Because there's a lot of work for heroes out there.

Edited November 24, 2009 by 213374U

[Cycloneman]

Your argument for passive support has some merit, but then, you can extend that to all Germans that didn't actively fight the Nazis. Were they, by your reasoning, Nazis by extension? Why don't we start digging into the reasons why Hitler's hate drivel found so much acceptance with the German people?

Yes, they were "Nazis by extension;" that is, Nazi enablers.

Say, what have you done lately, putting your own life at risk, to fight tyranny and injustice? Because there's a lot of work for heroes out there.

Aaaand ad hominem. I'm out.

[213374U]

Yes, they were "Nazis by extension;" that is, Nazi enablers.

Um, right. All non-resistance Germans were Nazis. Good luck with that, professor.

 

 

Aaaand ad hominem.

Aaaand style over substance. Aaaand hipocrisy. Aaaand cherrypicking. Aaaand

 

I'm out.

Edited November 24, 2009 by 213374U

[Meshugger]

Has anyone yet mentioned how Hitler and the Nazis exploited the german sense of duty to its fullest? Has anyone here heard of the prussian culture that had existed in the wehrmacht prior to the nazis? No one? Well, it seems like some of you completely fail at understanding that. And seperating the wehrmacht from the Waffen-SS, and especially the Einsatztruppen. It makes you guys look a bit...dumb, the least.

 

Also, while we're at it, what is your view on all those N*****S in Compton, LA? should they all be thrown in jail/shot? I mean, it is a breeding ground for all those gangs, and the inhabitants let them roam free without repercussion.

 

Aren't they really all gangmembers waiting to shoot people?