FO:NV

[Darque]

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[GreasyDogMeat]

@TwinkieGorilla

"hahaha, i love how you're trying reverse hyperbole in order to defend FO3. "a bit", eh? let's look at an old post i made back from the Bethesda board days. it details every single difference between the old and new:"

 

I just wanted to point out atleast one situation where that list is inaccurate or did NOT 'detail every single difference between the old and new'. Luck in Fallout 3 also determines how likely you are to run into special encounters. Yeah, F3 has 'em. First playthrough I ran into a few things, but my second I raised luck to a 9 and I frequently had encounters, like an alien ship exploding overhead raining down alien power cells and a special weapon called the 'fire lance'. Also ran into a friendly super mutant I had never encountered the first play through. Ended up giving me an old pre war suit for being nice to him/her.

 

Yeah, SPECIAL in F3 is dumbed down, but its not quite as dumbed down as that list makes it sound. Either way I DO hope Obsidian expands the importance of each stat in NV, but if they don't I'm likely to have fun with the game anyway.

[Tagaziel]

SPECIAL is dumbed down in Fo3, it's a no brainer. From a character-centered gameplay it went to a Deus Exque hybrid.

[bhlaab]

In FO2 it's never really explained what the GECK is or how it is supposed to work. But seeing Vault City and how utterly useless Citizens are, I'm leaning more towards the "magical" interpretation in FO2 as well.

 

Anytime you ask about a GECK in a conversation with someone who actually knows what one is, they tell you it's a bunch of seeds, fertilizer, and a water purifier.

[213374U]

In FO2 it's never really explained what the GECK is or how it is supposed to work. But seeing Vault City and how utterly useless Citizens are, I'm leaning more towards the "magical" interpretation in FO2 as well.

 

Anytime you ask about a GECK in a conversation with someone who actually knows what one is, they tell you it's a bunch of seeds, fertilizer, and a water purifier.

And who would that be? I can't seem to remember anyone in the game telling you that's what the thing actually is.

 

I know that's what the Fallout Bible states, for all that's worth, but I'm talking in-game lore.

[TwinkieGorilla]

I just wanted to point out atleast one situation where that list is inaccurate or did NOT 'detail every single difference between the old and new'. Luck in Fallout 3 also determines how likely you are to run into special encounters. Yeah, F3 has 'em. First playthrough I ran into a few things, but my second I raised luck to a 9 and I frequently had encounters, like an alien ship exploding overhead raining down alien power cells and a special weapon called the 'fire lance'. Also ran into a friendly super mutant I had never encountered the first play through. Ended up giving me an old pre war suit for being nice to him/her.

 

heh. this could be the case or it could be coincidence. i'd have to hear it from the mouths of the devs themselves that this was an intentional implementation and not just randomness on the part of the gamer (i.e. you & everybody else in the world).

 

Yeah, SPECIAL in F3 is dumbed down, but its not quite as dumbed down as that list makes it sound.

 

:/

 

[fact]while i may have omitted the possibility of what you described being more than sheer coincidence, that list is pure factual information. it's not making anything sound like anything other than what it really is.[/fact]

 

 

[hyperbole]it's not "dumbed down" it's completely useless.[/hyperbole]

Edited July 12, 2009 by TwinkieGorilla

[jjc]

In FO2 it's never really explained what the GECK is or how it is supposed to work. But seeing Vault City and how utterly useless Citizens are, I'm leaning more towards the "magical" interpretation in FO2 as well.

 

Anytime you ask about a GECK in a conversation with someone who actually knows what one is, they tell you it's a bunch of seeds, fertilizer, and a water purifier.

And who would that be? I can't seem to remember anyone in the game telling you that's what the thing actually is.

 

I know that's what the Fallout Bible states, for all that's worth, but I'm talking in-game lore.

Pretty sure you can ask around in Vault City for the GECK description.

 

The reason the GECK is a super terraforming device in Fallout 3 is because that's what the Genesis Device in Wrath of Khan was, just like the radiation chamber scenes at the Jefferson Memorial that were taken from Wrath of Khan.

[Syraxis]

I just wanted to point out atleast one situation where that list is inaccurate or did NOT 'detail every single difference between the old and new'. Luck in Fallout 3 also determines how likely you are to run into special encounters. Yeah, F3 has 'em. First playthrough I ran into a few things, but my second I raised luck to a 9 and I frequently had encounters, like an alien ship exploding overhead raining down alien power cells and a special weapon called the 'fire lance'. Also ran into a friendly super mutant I had never encountered the first play through. Ended up giving me an old pre war suit for being nice to him/her.

 

You mean Uncle Leo? I met him literally three minutes after exiting Vault 101 on my second play through (technically it's first time since I got the PC version through the July 4 steam deal. Purchased 360 version day one.)

[HoonDing]

I have no idea whether luck influences random encounters. Of all characters I've played, I've only had the alien ship crashing once the first time I played the game and that character only had mediocre luck... I did meet Uncle Leo each time, though.

 

First time I played the game I promptly ran into a guy called Sam Warrick. Killed him which netted me leather armor + sniper rifle right out of the vault. Haven't seen that guy again in other playthroughs... it's of course possible that those guys get killed by wasteland critters.

[Atom523]

In FO2 it's never really explained what the GECK is or how it is supposed to work. But seeing Vault City and how utterly useless Citizens are, I'm leaning more towards the "magical" interpretation in FO2 as well.

 

Anytime you ask about a GECK in a conversation with someone who actually knows what one is, they tell you it's a bunch of seeds, fertilizer, and a water purifier.

And who would that be? I can't seem to remember anyone in the game telling you that's what the thing actually is.

 

I know that's what the Fallout Bible states, for all that's worth, but I'm talking in-game lore.

Pretty sure you can ask around in Vault City for the GECK description.

 

The reason the GECK is a super terraforming device in Fallout 3 is because that's what the Genesis Device in Wrath of Khan was, just like the radiation chamber scenes at the Jefferson Memorial that were taken from Wrath of Khan.

 

 

Really? I don't remember anyone in Vault City actually bothering to explain what the GECK is. The closest thing to an explanation that i can remember at this moment is that guy in New Reno in the pharmacy. He gives a basic description.

 

I have played Fallout 2 many many times, and i always got the impression that the GECK was some magical suitcase capable of turning a desert into an oasis...with a nifty pen flashlight too.

 

Also remember it turns your village which is having a drought and disease into a paradise within a few years. I am pretty sure seeds fertilizer and a water purifier (a suitcase sized one) couldn't do that so fast. Also Vault city was a bit more impressive then what you are all suggesting the the GECK really is.

Edited July 13, 2009 by Atom523

[Tagaziel]

GECK wasn't a miracle device, it was (Renesco): "GECK? As in 'Garden of Eden Creation Kit?' Comes with a basic replicator unit, holodisc reader with selections

from the library of congress, and a little pen flashlight?"

 

Bethesda dropped the ball (again). GECK was a tool, not a magic terraformer, designed to aid[/i] Vault Dwellers in resettling the village. If you paid attention, Fo2 takes place 165 years after the nuclear war. The VC we see in Fo2 is the end result of Vault 8 inhabitants' hard work for over a century and a half. It didn't become a (relative) paradise overnight.

 

Same with New Arroyo - the slide you see is the end result, the timeframe is not specified anywhere. A GECK is not some wondrous panacea, it's just a tool designed to resettle.

[213374U]

I have played Fallout 2 many many times, and i always got the impression that the GECK was some magical suitcase capable of turning a desert into an oasis...with a nifty pen flashlight too.

Yeah, that's why I'm asking for the name of the NPC that gives you an informed description of the thing. It's been a long time since I played F2, and I don't remember that at all.

 

It also makes sense that the GECK would be the magical solution to all problems (or at least that's what everyone believes ingame), since it's the main force driving the plot forward until everyone gets abducted - and even then, it's still "essential" for the survival of Arroyo. A handful of seeds, fertilizer and a water purifier is something the player could easily acquire in the more developed towns, simplifying considerably the main quest. While MCA's take on it is certainly clever, I don't think it made it into the game.

 

edit:

 

GECK wasn't a miracle device, it was (Renesco): "GECK? As in 'Garden of Eden Creation Kit?' Comes with a basic replicator unit, holodisc reader with selections

from the library of congress, and a little pen flashlight?"

 

Bethesda dropped the ball (again). GECK was a tool, not a magic terraformer, designed to aid[/i] Vault Dwellers in resettling the village. If you paid attention, Fo2 takes place 165 years after the nuclear war. The VC we see in Fo2 is the end result of Vault 8 inhabitants' hard work for over a century and a half. It didn't become a (relative) paradise overnight.

Ah, so it was Renesco - he's an ex-Vault Citizen, right? Or was that the other doctor guy? What's a "basic replicator unit", anyway? Looks pretty magical to me.

 

Also, where do they specify how long did it take for Vault 8 inhabitants to start rebuilding? For all we know, they could have started last year.

Edited July 13, 2009 by 213374U

[jjc]

Also remember it turns your village which is having a drought and disease into a paradise within a few years. I am pretty sure seeds fertilizer and a water purifier (a suitcase sized one) couldn't do that so fast. Also Vault city was a bit more impressive then what you are all suggesting the the GECK really is.

Remember that the first two games are still sticking to the idea that the vaults were meant to preserve life and that the people inside were raised to be generally "with it," well-educated scientists.

 

A lot of things stop making sense if you embrace the premise that the vaults were bizarre experiments that failed because residents were being dosed with psychotropic drugs or whatever.

[TwinkieGorilla]

Ah, so it was Renesco - he's an ex-Vault Citizen, right? Or was that the other doctor guy?

 

no, he's the doctor in Reno with the incredibly varied and branching dialogue trees. the guy from Vault City is "Painless Doc Johnson" who lives in Redding.

[Tagaziel]

Also, where do they specify how long did it take for Vault 8 inhabitants to start rebuilding? For all we know, they could have started last year.

 

Lynette:

 

{216}{lyn020}{What you heard was incorrect. Our archives are quite clear: our vault received the all-clear signal two years after being sealed.}

 

Here. That gives them 163 years to rebuild.

[213374U]

Huh, I need to replay this game.

[Atom523]

GECK wasn't a miracle device, it was (Renesco): "GECK? As in 'Garden of Eden Creation Kit?' Comes with a basic replicator unit, holodisc reader with selections

from the library of congress, and a little pen flashlight?"

 

Bethesda dropped the ball (again). GECK was a tool, not a magic terraformer, designed to aid[/i] Vault Dwellers in resettling the village. If you paid attention, Fo2 takes place 165 years after the nuclear war. The VC we see in Fo2 is the end result of Vault 8 inhabitants' hard work for over a century and a half. It didn't become a (relative) paradise overnight.

 

Same with New Arroyo - the slide you see is the end result, the timeframe is not specified anywhere. A GECK is not some wondrous panacea, it's just a tool designed to resettle.

 

Yeah a REPLICATOR! That isn't some basic device, they are pretty much pulling from Star Trek with that one. It is a suitcase that can simply convert things into other things, that is pretty much magical compared to everything else in the setting.

 

But what else can one expect from Fallout 2, That game was over the top with just about everything. Massive amounts of fun but Black Isle took the first game turned up the ridiculous when it came to Fallout 2. The GECK was even more ridiculous then New Reno and that city made no sense what so ever (fun quests though)

[TwinkieGorilla]

But what else can one expect from Fallout 2, That game was over the top with just about everything. Massive amounts of fun but Black Isle took the first game turned up the ridiculous when it came to Fallout 2. The GECK was even more ridiculous then New Reno and that city made no sense what so ever (fun quests though)

 

waitwaitwait...back up a minute. are you using this to defend the re-use and re-treading of the idea in FO3? because if it's ridiculous in FO2 it's even more ridiculous in FO3. we've already established that FO2 has a silly side which many die-hards wish was a bit less silly but this doesn't exempt FO3 from totally missing the mark and making something which started out "ridiculous" into something which became for all intents and purposes ****ing retarded.

[Tagaziel]

Yeah a REPLICATOR! That isn't some basic device, they are pretty much pulling from Star Trek with that one. It is a suitcase that can simply convert things into other things, that is pretty much magical compared to everything else in the setting.

 

But what else can one expect from Fallout 2, That game was over the top with just about everything. Massive amounts of fun but Black Isle took the first game turned up the ridiculous when it came to Fallout 2. The GECK was even more ridiculous then New Reno and that city made no sense what so ever (fun quests though)

 

Basic replicator that most likely cannot produce anything beyond fertilizers and seeds. That's hardly magical.

[jjc]

Here.

{815}{}{My little dreadlocks are cute.}

SECRETS OF FALLOUT REVEALED

[Kjarista]

But what else can one expect from Fallout 2, That game was over the top with just about everything. Massive amounts of fun but Black Isle took the first game turned up the ridiculous when it came to Fallout 2. The GECK was even more ridiculous then New Reno and that city made no sense what so ever (fun quests though)

 

waitwaitwait...back up a minute. are you using this to defend the re-use and re-treading of the idea in FO3? because if it's ridiculous in FO2 it's even more ridiculous in FO3. we've already established that FO2 has a silly side which many die-hards wish was a bit less silly but this doesn't exempt FO3 from totally missing the mark and making something which started out "ridiculous" into something which became for all intents and purposes ****ing retarded.

 

Ya, I'd call this pot-kettle-black. GECK was a mess from the start, but they did think it would save the village, etc. It's yet another example of the 50's cultural belief that technology could solve every problem, which, of course, is silly.

 

A POX on both the houses of FO2/3. But if I were to compare the silly factor of the two games, FO2 would be the silliest by far.

[jero cvmi]

any news?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...didn't think so.

[Kjarista]

any news?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...didn't think so.

 

Nope, just the same old back and forth. It's about time for a teaser, I think.

[Atom523]

But what else can one expect from Fallout 2, That game was over the top with just about everything. Massive amounts of fun but Black Isle took the first game turned up the ridiculous when it came to Fallout 2. The GECK was even more ridiculous then New Reno and that city made no sense what so ever (fun quests though)

 

waitwaitwait...back up a minute. are you using this to defend the re-use and re-treading of the idea in FO3? because if it's ridiculous in FO2 it's even more ridiculous in FO3. we've already established that FO2 has a silly side which many die-hards wish was a bit less silly but this doesn't exempt FO3 from totally missing the mark and making something which started out "ridiculous" into something which became for all intents and purposes ****ing retarded.

 

Wait...i defended Fallout 3? All i did was say that Fallout 2 was ridiculous, mainly in comparison to Fallout 1. I am one of those people who feels that Fallout 2 was an incredibly fun game that dragged the theme and tone of Fallout 1 through the mud. I think Fallout 3 is a poor man's Fallout and is no where near as good as any of the previous 2. Don't put words in my mouth and say that i am defending Fallout 3 when i didn't.

 

 

Yeah a REPLICATOR! That isn't some basic device, they are pretty much pulling from Star Trek with that one. It is a suitcase that can simply convert things into other things, that is pretty much magical compared to everything else in the setting.

 

But what else can one expect from Fallout 2, That game was over the top with just about everything. Massive amounts of fun but Black Isle took the first game turned up the ridiculous when it came to Fallout 2. The GECK was even more ridiculous then New Reno and that city made no sense what so ever (fun quests though)

 

Basic replicator that most likely cannot produce anything beyond fertilizers and seeds. That's hardly magical.

 

They never say what it can replicate, you are making things up to defend your position. It is a replicator and we have no idea what its capabilities are, for all we know the GECK can replicate building materials computer chips etc. If you notice the village of Arroyo looks far more advanced then anything out there besides Vault City and NCR both which were made from GECKS (well at least that was the excuse given for NCR in the second game as they never mentioned anything like that in the first game)

[Tagaziel]

They never say what it can replicate, you are making things up to defend your position. It is a replicator and we have no idea what its capabilities are, for all we know the GECK can replicate building materials computer chips etc. If you notice the village of Arroyo looks far more advanced then anything out there besides Vault City and NCR both which were made from GECKS (well at least that was the excuse given for NCR in the second game as they never mentioned anything like that in the first game)

 

What, a render in an ending slide? For all we know, it might've been supposed to show New Arroyo in 2300.

 

And second, if it was all-powerful, then why call it a basic replicator?