K3 AND K4

[alanschu]

Besides, who says that K3 couldn't have multiple unique paths as described in paragraph 3.

 

Because it's too expensive.

 

Branching paths in a single player game experience makes the game exponentially larger, because you'll literally be getting many games in one. I know that'd be awesome as a game player, but lets get realistic here, no game company is going to make a game that is essentially many games in one, as opposed to releasing them all as individual games. Speaking of hating to explain this all the time...

 

Just to reiterate: There is no way any game developer would even dream of making a game with the scope that BioWare is planning with SWTOR as a single player only game. It's not financially feasible.

 

 

I may only pay one time for Warcraft 3 than I do for WoW, but I played significantly more hours in WoW than I ever would have in Warcraft 3 (that and they are completely different games).

[213374U]

Just to reiterate: There is no way any game developer would even dream of making a game with the scope that BioWare is planning with SWTOR as a single player only game. It's not financially feasible.

I guess you would know better, seeing as you are in on the biz and all - that could, on the other hand, make your argument suspect, if I were a wee bit cynical (). But even if I didn't want to believe that it's not financially viable for a developer to make a game with a branching ad infinitum plot... why would they want to put in much more work for the same money? Who the hell does that?!

[kingofsquid]

Well, crap, you could have the expansion things. Like the Rock Band Track Packs.

[Rosbjerg]

Tone down the "@!!X&" please, or this thread will be closed..

[Nihilus5078]

So you prefer this **** instead of this @#$%

Edited July 13, 2009 by Nihilus5078

[Calax]

Well, crap, you could have the expansion things. Like the Rock Band Track Packs.

 

 

So you prefer this **** instead of this @#$%

I don't think so, I think he'd prefer anything mildly profane to be "special" and not thrown out every 20 seconds.

 

As to king of squid, they tried that with Guild Wars, but for the company to earn enough revenue you have to play 30 bucks every 2 months... I'll let you do the math yourself.

[Nihilus5078]

Hey, I'm the youngest person here, I profanity a lot *says f*** like five times while being censored* hehe, just joking, I often try to control my profanity but I usually think I fail at it.

Edited July 13, 2009 by Nihilus5078

[Rosbjerg]

Well I could help you control it, but I don't think you'd want that.. so try to tone it down on your own..

[213374U]

Well, crap, you could have the expansion things. Like the Rock Band Track Packs.

Aren't we back to square one, then? Either way, you end up paying for added content (xpacks), that's released and debugged less frequently than MMO content modules. You also get a game with a shorter lifespan, whether you like it or not. If you get bored with an MMO you can just cancel your subscription - you can always come back later and check out the new content. If you get bored with a game that isn't getting any more xpacks, you'd better find something else to play. Edited July 13, 2009 by 213374U

[Darth InSidious]

Am I the only person willing to sacrifice a little content and non-linearity for not having to play the game with darthrevan243 and the eight million other carbuncular, pubescent, snot-nosed, ALLCAPSing, 1337-5p34k1ng "chosen ones" (and this is a Bioware game - you can rest assured that you will be "chosen" for some reason) that will inevitably decide to play as either Jedi or Sith? Am I the only one who doesn't want to share a game-world with the only people less conducive to immersion than Mass Effect's voice actors?

 

This is, admittedly, the view of a fanboy and anti-Biowhorian, but still.

[kingofsquid]

No. No you are not. I think MMOs suck.

[Calax]

Am I the only person willing to sacrifice a little content and non-linearity for not having to play the game with darthrevan243 and the eight million other carbuncular, pubescent, snot-nosed, ALLCAPSing, 1337-5p34k1ng "chosen ones" (and this is a Bioware game - you can rest assured that you will be "chosen" for some reason) that will inevitably decide to play as either Jedi or Sith? Am I the only one who doesn't want to share a game-world with the only people less conducive to immersion than Mass Effect's voice actors?

 

This is, admittedly, the view of a fanboy and anti-Biowhorian, but still.

you aren't, but you are however a bit of an ass given you pigeon hole 10 million people + because of a genre. Hell, Halo boys probably have more in common with the stereotype you posted than your average MMOer.

[213374U]

Also, replace that "a little" for "a lot". For factual accuracy and all.

[cogadh]

Given the recent poll on KotORFiles ( link ), I'm fairly certain that the majority of KotOR fans are up for the MMO, even if I'm not. And the non-fan playerbase are far less picky about stuff like whether it's an MMO, TBH, and are for the most part of the "zOMG, KotOR II suxxx, it r 2 broked" camp.

The question of whether or not you are excited about the upcoming game doesn't really address what people really want. I'd like to see a poll that asks the question, "Which would you prefer, KotOR 3 or the currently planned MMO?" I don't know if the results would be any different, but I'd like to think they would be.

[213374U]

I think we had that poll, actually. Major support for K3, IIRC, before the thread degenerated and had to be put out of its misery. A result as surprising as representative, I'd say, considering whose boards are these.

[Calax]

I think we had that poll, actually. Major support for K3, IIRC, before the thread degenerated and had to be put out of its misery. A result as surprising as representative, I'd say, considering whose boards are these.

I'd hardly be surprised that there was support for K3 given that the people who play the games that these boards owners make are solely single player. Admittedly the whole "degeneration" thing is pretty standard with any thread where opposing viewpoints collide.

[alanschu]

Just to reiterate: There is no way any game developer would even dream of making a game with the scope that BioWare is planning with SWTOR as a single player only game. It's not financially feasible.

I guess you would know better, seeing as you are in on the biz and all - that could, on the other hand, make your argument suspect, if I were a wee bit cynical (). But even if I didn't want to believe that it's not financially viable for a developer to make a game with a branching ad infinitum plot... why would they want to put in much more work for the same money? Who the hell does that?!

 

 

Okay, in that sense I stand corrected that, if someone had deep enough pockets and didn't care to turn a profit, then yeah, it could be possible.

 

 

I don't know many businesses that are like that though

[alanschu]

Am I the only person willing to sacrifice a little content and non-linearity for not having to play the game with darthrevan243 and the eight million other carbuncular, pubescent, snot-nosed, ALLCAPSing, 1337-5p34k1ng "chosen ones" (and this is a Bioware game - you can rest assured that you will be "chosen" for some reason) that will inevitably decide to play as either Jedi or Sith? Am I the only one who doesn't want to share a game-world with the only people less conducive to immersion than Mass Effect's voice actors?

 

This is, admittedly, the view of a fanboy and anti-Biowhorian, but still.

 

 

Well, if BioWare hopes to come close to their claims for content, it wouldn't be a little bit of content, it'd be a fair bit (remains to be seen for how much content is in game though.

 

 

Given that the people you describe that are present in WoW rarely affect my enjoyment of that game, I doubt it will be an issue. At the same time, you'll also never get the experience of playing with people that aren't total douches and are actually a lot of fun to play with. It might not cancel it out entirely, but I do think that this helps a fair bit.

[Albion72]

I'm fairly certain the MMO will be fun.

 

There are always Role-playing servers that enhance the immersion with rules that players must follow or they get banned basically.

You can't name your character xLegolasxxO0O0OwnagexxxX for one. You must speak with fairly good grammar skills. And you must not act out of character unless through private messages and the other player(s) permit it.

 

It almost seems like you aren't in an MMO world but in a world filled with very intelligent bots. In the starting areas you'll encounter certain individuals that... well... disrupt your experience but they never make it past the starting areas and once you get past it you really never have to deal with them at all.

 

Just because its an MMO doesn't mean it insta-sucks. I'm sorry, but thats just a biased opinion. If you truly don't like MMOs then you shouldn't say the game is going to fail simply because you don't like MMOs. It will fail in your opinion, not in the opinion of a million other people.

 

I loved Star Wars Galaxies until the company thought it was a good idea to make it more like WoW.

 

I was a droid vendor... I'd sell and purchase and barter droid parts.... You don't get that in Non-MMOs.

 

Of course there is always that good chance the company making this MMO will screw up and design it based off WoW, but I doubt it. They have people who are die-hard Star Wars fans play testing it making sure that its got a Star Wars feel, and not an MMO World of Warcraft/everquest Type feel to it.

 

 

But meh if bashing MMOs is your thing then whatever. You can't hate an MMO because its in the same universe as a single-player game you like though. Sure... I want K3 really badly as a single-player MMO so that I can finish off the storyline, but I'm perfectly content w/ K1 and K2 right now until a company realizes its a good idea to make K3. The MMO is quite some time after the single-player games too so you probably won't hear anything about the events of K1 and K2 next to maybe a mention of Revan/Exile doing some battle or something. Thats just my opinion. They sure as hell don't want to focus their MMO on teaching history lessons and even less want to talk about Obsidian's KOTOR 2, its just not smart.

[kingofsquid]

You are correct. I never play MMOs. What the heck is a single-player MMO? MMO stands for Massively MULTIPLAYER Online. Meaning not single player. But whatever. K3 is a great idea. The thing is, MMOs are updated and normal games are not. (usually. there is Xbox live and WiiConnect24) If K3 turns out to have as much cut content as K2, I might just go on a killing spree. And you know what that means.....

[cogadh]

@Albion72

 

You are making some pretty big assumptions about this game and MMOs in general, like there are "always" role-playing servers. Admittedly, I have only played a few MMOs, none of which I liked, but also none of which have ever had role-playing servers (I might have liked them if they did). That concept may be unique to certain MMOs, but it is certainly not "always" available and there is absolutely no guarantee the TOR will have it at all.

 

The negative opinion of MMOs has less to do with the quality of the game itself and more to do with the all the baggage being an MMO brings with it. The game itself could be great, but being a MMO means certain basic flaws must be present. We've already covered the fact that every douchebag on the internet is invited to play the game with me, whether I want to play with them or not. How about the monthly fee for a game I already bought? BioWare is touting the story of this game as if you could play it single player, despite the fact that it is a MMO. Why in the world would I sign up for and pay a monthly fee for a single player game? What about the mindless grinding? I don't want to spend weeks killing random gizka and wamp rats, just so I can level up enough to do the next part of the story. This, more than anything else, is what makes me hate MMOs with a passion. They get frustratingly boring, I start to think "Why the hell am I paying for this?" then some l33t player steals the loot from my latest kill. The next day, I cancel my account then spend weeks berating myself for wasting money on yet another pointless game.

 

I hate to break it to you, but have you looked at any of the screenshots and artwork surrounding this game? It might as well be called Star Wars: World of Warcraft. Granted, some things have changed since the initial announcement, like the cartoonishly large lightsaber hilts, but this is already shaping up to be the WoW of the Star Wars universe. If they have SW fans doing the playtesting, from what I have seen so far, they are failing at their jobs miserably.

Edited July 15, 2009 by cogadh

[alanschu]

What have you seen so far? Some screenshots?

 

An excellent assessment for whether or not the game adheres to the Star Wars universe.

[kingofsquid]

Could you post a link to these screenshots, please?

[HoonDing]

Link

[Darth InSidious]

Am I the only person willing to sacrifice a little content and non-linearity for not having to play the game with darthrevan243 and the eight million other carbuncular, pubescent, snot-nosed, ALLCAPSing, 1337-5p34k1ng "chosen ones" (and this is a Bioware game - you can rest assured that you will be "chosen" for some reason) that will inevitably decide to play as either Jedi or Sith? Am I the only one who doesn't want to share a game-world with the only people less conducive to immersion than Mass Effect's voice actors?

 

This is, admittedly, the view of a fanboy and anti-Biowhorian, but still.

 

 

Well, if BioWare hopes to come close to their claims for content, it wouldn't be a little bit of content, it'd be a fair bit (remains to be seen for how much content is in game though.

Ah, but what sort of content? The MMO and SPRPG playerbases want different things: Those that are playing SPRPGs are generally looking for story, characters, etc etc; by contrast, it seems that a hell of a lot of the people on an MMO are interested in grinding to the next level, not dialogue or interesting quests. I've been dong some reading up on quest design recently since avoiding the spike-traps of fedex and killquest are rather proving difficult. Two things came out of this:

 

1. That no-one seems to write about this much, except in relation to MMOs (if they do write about SPRPGs, it's usually so nebulous you could lose Khan in there);

2. That the MMO playerbase actively discourage innovation in design.

 

(Link for what seems to be a fairly typical example.)

 

What does this mean? This means that the content for TOR is not going to be, say, a stunningly diverting and brilliant culmination of amazing story, genius characterisation and brilliant dialogue, with heaps of choice, consequence and novelty. Rather, if this is to succeed, it will be grind, grind and fedex-quests. And no amount of lightsabers, Force Lightning and pretty-but-telling-for-all-the-wrong-reasons CGI trailers will change that.

 

Given that the people you describe that are present in WoW rarely affect my enjoyment of that game, I doubt it will be an issue. At the same time, you'll also never get the experience of playing with people that aren't total douches and are actually a lot of fun to play with. It might not cancel it out entirely, but I do think that this helps a fair bit.

Yeah, but I'm not particularly keen on playing with total strangers either way. Tried MP with strangers on various games, and it never works out well. If it were possible with a set of friends, and to lock out all other players/set up a private server, that would be a more interesting proposition. I'm guessing that's not going to be the case, though, since LA and Bioware want to turn big profits on this.