Political Cartoons

[lord of flies]

Im dying to hear your economic manifesto.

 

Whet my appatite, my dear Trotsky. Why shouldn't people like to own/buy things?

The idea of ownership, as it exists in modern times, is by no means some fundamental of humanity. Perhaps its development is inevitable in the slow progress mankind made in ancient days, but the fact of the matter is that plenty of tribal societies had no concept of "ownership" as it exists in the west (for example, many do not think you can "own" something which you can't carry with you). While I don't endorse stealing tribal economics (they aren't appropriate for an industrial society), this does show that humans have the capacity to forsake possession for use.

 

Again, people enjoy luxury, not ownership. Ownership is only "good" in that it allows easy, assured access to luxury. But really, what is the huge difference between going to an internet cafe to post dumb stuff on the internet, and using your own personal computer to do it?

[Deadly_Nightshade]

...what is the huge difference between going to an internet cafe to post dumb stuff on the internet, and using your own personal computer to do it?

 

The security and condition of the computer are two easy, major differences.

[Walsingham]

I'm perfectly happy for you chaps to 'rpove' Obama was Kenyan. that would make him former commonwealth, and then we could nick him. God knows we need a decent hitter. Brown vs Obama. that really would be a short battle.

[Gorgon]

I wonder what the republican talking heads are thinking. This, and repeated warnings that Obama is going to turn the US into the USSR. I dunno, seems like they are shooting themselves in the foot here, why not be a little more on point and a little less concerned with winning over people who were going to vote Republican anyway.

[lord of flies]

I'm perfectly happy for you chaps to 'rpove' Obama was Kenyan. that would make him former commonwealth, and then we could nick him. God knows we need a decent hitter. Brown vs Obama. that really would be a short battle.

Obama is not nearly so good as you think. He has lied (a lot) over the course of his career, and his politics are best described as center-right or far-right. Guantanamo Bay is getting worse, he's stepping up the war in Afghanistan (where our "ally" is a brutal, fundamentalist, misogynistic regime) and the list goes on and on. I could continue, going in depth on his policies towards homosexuals, suspects' rights, big business, labor, et cetera, but I think you get the idea.

 

He is only a leftist from the bizarre American viewpoint, and that viewpoint is a complex product of myriad social factors, most notable of which is the fact that whoever is the lefter candidate is assumed to be a leftist.

[Meshugger]

Im dying to hear your economic manifesto.

 

Whet my appatite, my dear Trotsky. Why shouldn't people like to own/buy things?

The idea of ownership, as it exists in modern times, is by no means some fundamental of humanity. Perhaps its development is inevitable in the slow progress mankind made in ancient days, but the fact of the matter is that plenty of tribal societies had no concept of "ownership" as it exists in the west (for example, many do not think you can "own" something which you can't carry with you). While I don't endorse stealing tribal economics (they aren't appropriate for an industrial society), this does show that humans have the capacity to forsake possession for use.

 

Again, people enjoy luxury, not ownership. Ownership is only "good" in that it allows easy, assured access to luxury. But really, what is the huge difference between going to an internet cafe to post dumb stuff on the internet, and using your own personal computer to do it?

 

Oh, come on. What a copout.

 

You can do better than that, give us a manifesto that belongs to the people!

[Gorgon]

I'm perfectly happy for you chaps to 'rpove' Obama was Kenyan. that would make him former commonwealth, and then we could nick him. God knows we need a decent hitter. Brown vs Obama. that really would be a short battle.

Obama is not nearly so good as you think. He has lied (a lot) over the course of his career, and his politics are best described as center-right or far-right. Guantanamo Bay is getting worse, he's stepping up the war in Afghanistan (where our "ally" is a brutal, fundamentalist, misogynistic regime) and the list goes on and on. I could continue, going in depth on his policies towards homosexuals, suspects' rights, big business, labor, et cetera, but I think you get the idea.

 

He is only a leftist from the bizarre American viewpoint, and that viewpoint is a complex product of myriad social factors, most notable of which is the fact that whoever is the lefter candidate is assumed to be a leftist.

 

From your link He stressed the mistreatment did not appear to be directed from above, but was an initiative undertaken by frustrated U.S. army and navy jailers on the ground.

 

 

As for Afghanistan, price of doing business, do you propose fighting the Taliban there without propping up the regime ?. In foreign policy national interests always trump civil rights. Always has, always will.

[Walsingham]

Don't mind LoF. He has yet to suggest a single practical step to achieving his notional utopia.

[GreasyDogMeat]

My jaw just dropped (and I drooled on myself a little) when I heard LoD refer to Obama as 'right wing'. My left eye is twitching now and I think I've blown a gasket.

[Gorgon]

Well he is right of middle from a European perspective, all American presidents since maybe FDR have been, that part is all true. Certainly not a socialist anyway.

[lord of flies]

From your link He stressed the mistreatment did not appear to be directed from above, but was an initiative undertaken by frustrated U.S. army and navy jailers on the ground.

Oh, well golly gee, Obama isn't literally there torturing people himself, right? Do you think he, as the president of the United States (who, I remind you, was elected in some part on the platform of stopping this bull****) has no power to prevent or counteract this? I remind you that he wants to keep acquitted prisoners as prisoners, and that people who are acquitted have been found innocent.

As for Afghanistan, price of doing business, do you propose fighting the Taliban there without propping up the regime ?. In foreign policy national interests always trump civil rights. Always has, always will.

Sorry, that viewpoint wasn't acceptable during the Cold War, and it sure as hell isn't acceptable now. What, pray tell, is the point of propping up a more-of-the-same regime? You do realize that a little over twenty years ago, we propped up a ****ty bunch of fundamentalists there? Gosh, that turned out so great. The war in Afghanistan was an idiotic venture - the better revenge killing would've been some Delta Force operation to snipe Bin Laden, then trumpet it back home.

Don't mind LoF. He has yet to suggest a single practical step to achieving his notional utopia.

Managing the revolution in America is not very possible (though political conditions over the coming decades could conceivably allow it), but there are steps the leadership can take to help make the world a better place. Stop supporting horrific regimes. It won't be that hard, just focus on bad regimes when you're randomly couping countries across the world, instead of pretty nice countries like Venezuela.

 

Of course, doing this would require some kind of accountable leadership, which Obama is clearly showing does not really exist in America. But hey, maybe eventually we'll no longer just let any jackass donate a couple grand to election campaigns. And then we'll pass real health care reform, and stop even bothering with "cap and trade" bull****. And then we'll illegalize political parties. And beautiful rainbows will appear on every street corner.

My jaw just dropped (and I drooled on myself a little) when I heard LoD refer to Obama as 'right wing'. My left eye is twitching now and I think I've blown a gasket.

Americanness confirmed.

[Hurlshort]

Venezuela has some serious political issues, as evidenced by the frequent coup de'tats and major strikes that take months to solve.

[Gorgon]

I agree, nothing good can come of revolutions, just look at the US.

[Aristes]

Aw, you're saying we're nothing good? That just hurts, bro!

 

Anyhow, one simple question, why are some folks referring to Lord of Flies as LOD? Is that like Lord of Destruction from Diablo?

[Deadly_Nightshade]

"D" is right next to "F" so most likely it's a typo.

[lord of flies]

Venezuela has some serious political issues, as evidenced by the frequent coup de\\\'tats and major strikes that take months to solve.

Ergo, we should attempt to overthrow their democratically elected government in a rightist military coup, right? While simultaneously leaving the governments of countries like Zimbabwe intact?

[Gorgon]

That's a really interesting study in how to conduct a coup using media staged events and confusion. Certainly looks sophisticated enough to be a CIA job, only they aren't supposed to be doing that kinda stuff anymore.

 

It's interesting to note that while it was a militarist coup, the army didn't fall behind them completely, in the end information spread faster than their disinformation. It's not so easy to create your own reality through control of the media anymore. Whatever people might say.

Edited August 1, 2009 by Gorgon

[Humodour]

He is only a leftist from the bizarre American viewpoint, and that viewpoint is a complex product of myriad social factors, most notable of which is the fact that whoever is the lefter candidate is assumed to be a leftist.

 

That's true. It's quite an annoying aspect about American politics (among others).

[Pidesco]

It's not annoying. It's to be expected. The more powerful and prosperous a country is the more likely it is that country leans towards conservatism.

[Humodour]

It's not annoying. It's to be expected. The more powerful and prosperous a country is the more likely it is that country leans towards conservatism.

 

Whilst I disagree completely with that hypothesis, that's neither here nor there, as it's not what I was talking about. I was talking about the representation of politics in America, not the political leanings of the country.

[Pidesco]

The representation of politics in America is a reflection of the political leanings of America.

 

Why do you disagree, by the way? It has been vindicated by about every major power in the world ever.

[Guard Dog]

The representation of politics in America is a reflection of the political leanings of America.

 

Why do you disagree, by the way? It has been vindicated by about every major power in the world ever.

 

I think Pidesco is right on both points. Notice that Obamas popularity has plummeted (very uncommon for a President at only six months) as he has moved to the left. And you guys are right, he is only a leftist in the American political sense. In the scope of world politics he is slightly right of center. I keep pointing out to all or you that the US is a very different thing politically than any other country in the world. We have some very different ideas about what the role of the federal government should be. I don't think you guys get that we are a union of 50 sovereign states. Since taking office Obama has done a lot to centralize power in Washington even to the point of usurping power from the State governors and legislatures. It is not possible to pursue an agenda of "soft socialism" without asserting central government power in ways the US Constitution specifically prohibits. He has and the majority of the voters are growing restless about it. That is why news stories like this have been popping up:

 

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-05-14-secede_N.htm

 

So far Texas, Oklahoma, Alaska, Idaho, North and South Dakota, Tennessee, South Carolina, and Louisiana have all passed resolutions asserting state sovereignty and demanding the federal government restrain its self to the powers granted under the constitution. Florida, Georgia, Mississippi, North Carolina, Missouri, Ohio, Colorado, Nevada, Arizona and Kentucky have all passed similar resolution out of one of the two state legislatures and it is expected it will pass the other shortly. These resolutions have been ,by and large, very popular with the voters in these states. I only bring this up to point out that we are very different from the rest of the world and I know that seems to frustrate many of you (I could not guess why, no one here in the US gives a damn about whether the government of Australia for example is right or left). Yes Obama is a leftist only in the American sense but it seems he is too left for us. If he is smart (and I believe he is) he will do as Clinton did and move back to the center and stay there. Then he will probably have a successful presidency and probably get a second term. If he does not get the message he will end up like Carter and be sent home in 2012. For the sake of my country I devoutly hope it will be the former.

[Monte Carlo]

Venezuela has some serious political issues, as evidenced by the frequent coup de\\\'tats and major strikes that take months to solve.

Ergo, we should attempt to overthrow their democratically elected government in a rightist military coup, right? While simultaneously leaving the governments of countries like Zimbabwe intact?

 

Go on, admit it, you think it would be OK to overthrow democratically elected governments in a leftist military coup. Maybe you'd love to put on your Che-like beret and bandolier and machinegun the running dogs of capitalism. Think about it: is there about a quarter of an inch between the position you espouse and that of those you purport to despise?

 

I do wonder if you are in fact a troll, role-playing an extreme left-wing stereotype to provoke debate, if so I take my hat off to you. Bravo.

 

Cheers

MC

[Deadly_Nightshade]

So far Texas, Oklahoma, Alaska, Idaho, North and South Dakota, Tennessee, South Carolina, and Louisiana have all passed resolutions asserting state sovereignty...

 

That bull**** again? Don't they know that the Civil War effectively ended the main backing of the "States' Rights" movement?

[Meshugger]

I do wonder if you are in fact a troll, role-playing an extreme left-wing stereotype to provoke debate, if so I take my hat off to you. Bravo.

 

Cheers

MC

 

Well duh