Romance?

[gamerguy845]

I thought I read in some preview that this game will feature romance with some of the female dealers/imformants/co-workers, is this true, and if so, to what degree?

[Matthew Rorie]

There's a fair bit of romantic/sexual tension between Mike and some of his female counterparts/adversaries. This can play out through many conversations and ultimately leads, if the player desires, to more physical interactions with these characters.

[gamerguy845]

wow, that's nice I actually get a developer to answer my question.

[alanschu]

He is the marketing/PR guy. He's just doing his job

[Oner]

Shouldn't he be using a hypnotic 'buy AP' .gif avatar?

[Skizo]

an "OBEY" one.

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

Stop giving him ideas.

[Alvin Nelson]

He's not just PR though. Matt actually does a lot of the day-to-day production work on AP as well, so he definitely knows his stuff.

[alanschu]

Well, it does say PR "Producer" so I suppose that's fair.

 

Though honestly I would hope a PR person knows their stuff anyway

[blackace57]

Is the romance going to be more on the deep Mass Effect end, or the stupid black screen kiss like KOTOR?

[Enoch]

Is the romance going to be more on the deep Mass Effect end, or the stupid black screen kiss like KOTOR?

Translation: Will I get to see a half-second of naked ass-cheek?

 

 

(Editorial comment: The idea that either the ME or KotOR "romances" were at all "deep," or even worthy of the name "romances" is pretty laughable. Call it what it is-- they threw some sex into the game for titillation and fan-service purposes. Obsidian is essentially doing the same with AP, but I'm a bit less hostile to it, because the idea of one-off disposable "conquests" with no discernible "romance" is so ingrained in Bond films/books that establish much of the audience's expectations for the genre. Criticizing a Bond-inspired film/book/game for having sexual content absent well developed romantic plotlines is a bit like criticizing an AC/DC album for being to loud and vulgar.)

Edited July 5, 2009 by Enoch

[Humodour]

AP is doing it properly (compare a Torment romance to a BG 2 romance) and so I have no problem with it, and it's also the Obsidian way to do romances in general: hint at them all you like (e.g. flirting, perhaps random sex, etc), all while avoiding them completely.

 

You could say Obsidian has commitment issues.

[Pop]

A common and important element running through MCA's work w/r/t romance and character interaction in general has been an external supernatural force that binds characters together. With Torment it was the oaths that were sworn for the Nameless One, with KOTORII it was the magnetic attraction between the Exile and the broken individuals that made up his party, and I want to say there was a similar theme in NWN2 but I can't recall it exactly (though the thing with oaths was revisited in MOTB)

 

The thing about romances and relationships in RPGs in general is that they develop really abnormally fast, when you think about it. In Mass Effect you pick up random people and put them in your party and in no time flat they are loyal to the death. The supernatural elements in MCA's games has made these relationship arcs much more sensible and coherent as the attraction between the PC and the party cannot be helped and is deterministic.

 

But given that AP is a real-world game it can't have that external element helping make sense of the relationship dynamics it's going to run into the same problems that other games have, where relationships move so quick that people either feel like sluts or high school students with low self esteem.

Edited July 7, 2009 by Pop

[Aristes]

Is the romance going to be more on the deep Mass Effect end, or the stupid black screen kiss like KOTOR?

Translation: Will I get to see a half-second of naked ass-cheek?

 

 

(Editorial comment: The idea that either the ME or KotOR "romances" were at all "deep," or even worthy of the name "romances" is pretty laughable. Call it what it is-- they threw some sex into the game for titillation and fan-service purposes. Obsidian is essentially doing the same with AP, but I'm a bit less hostile to it, because the idea of one-off disposable "conquests" with no discernible "romance" is so ingrained in Bond films/books that establish much of the audience's expectations for the genre. Criticizing a Bond-inspired film/book/game for having sexual content absent well developed romantic plotlines is a bit like criticizing an AC/DC album for being to loud and vulgar.)

I agree with this post completely.

[Enoch]

A common and important element running through MCA's work w/r/t romance and character interaction in general has been an external supernatural force that binds characters together. With Torment it was the oaths that were sworn for the Nameless One, with KOTORII it was the magnetic attraction between the Exile and the broken individuals that made up his party, and I want to say there was a similar theme in NWN2 but I can't recall it exactly (though the thing with oaths was revisited in MOTB)

 

The thing about romances and relationships in RPGs in general is that they develop really abnormally fast, when you think about it. In Mass Effect you pick up random people and put them in your party and in no time flat they are loyal to the death. The supernatural elements in MCA's games has made these relationship arcs much more sensible and coherent as the attraction between the PC and the party cannot be helped and is deterministic.

 

But given that AP is a real-world game it can't have that external element helping make sense of the relationship dynamics it's going to run into the same problems that other games have, where relationships move so quick that people either feel like sluts or high school students with low self esteem.

Solid points, but I don't know if it always has to be a supernatural tie. I'd argue that the Exile-Bao Dur relationship was more based on their common history than it was on the Exile's force-vampire nature. And although the supernatural element was present in Torment, I think the past emotional connection with TNO that kept Morte (the emotion being guilt), Dak'kon (honor, tradition, guilt, duty, etc.), and Deionarra (love) tied to him would have held up just fine without the supernatural element. In other words, I think there's room to make more mature relationships (mature in the temporal sense) feel more realistic in a game if you base them on a history between the characters that pre-dates the player's involvement. And, as an added bonus, the slow revelation of this past to the player serves as one of the more compelling hooks to the story. (The slow reveal of the heroine's backstory is the main thing that kept me playing through the slow-ish middle chapters of The Longest Journey recently.)

 

This is probably not particularly relevant to AP, though-- as I noted above, a spy-movie-based game is one of the few areas where brief sexual encounters based primarily on faux-clever banter and otherworldly beauty can plausibly carry on without the load of emotional baggage normally consequent to such relations. "Feeling like a ****" is just part of the fantasy at the heart of the genre. I think there are ways that mature, interesting relationships can be done in a modern-day game; that just isn't likely the kind of game they're trying to make this time around.

[Aristes]

There are avenues of conversation in PS:T that essentially ensure Dak'kon's loyalty that transcend 'magic.' In fact, in terms of loyalty or sexual drive, the 'romances' in PS:T make the most sense to me personally. The sexual tension between Annah and The Nameless One are just that... sexual tensions, not full fledged romantic feelings. You can try to work from there if you want. The relationship between Morte and TNO is truly complex depending on how you interact with him. He has some guilt, as Enoch says, but you can also bolster him and befriend him from your part. I remember one line where he's forced to explain the notes you've left yourself warning not to trust the skull. He says something to the effect of, "you weren't like you are now." Dak'kon, if you finish the entire rings line and then teach him, swear complete loyalty to you in a way that is genuine that it is my favorite moment in any CRPG I've ever played. People talk about philosophy and navel gazing, but it is clear to me that the reason most fans hold PS:T in such esteem is due to the interaction between the PC and NPCs.

 

Also, PS:T doesn't have a romance as such. I can think of very few game romances I have not outright despised. They are not only hasty and forced, but have no relevance to the actual game. Hell, the romance with Deionarra is the most genuine of the romances I've seen in a CRPG, and she's a ****ing ghost.

 

At any rate, Enoch makes the point about sexuality (as opposed to romance) in the spy setting. On that level, I can accept it because, like a lot of things 'James Bond,' it's really tongue in cheek in the first place.

[entrerix]

mass effect "romances" were tremendously laughable. Just use the dialogue lines that sound like you care, badaboombadabing score.

 

I had more emotional attachment to my horse in Shadow of the Colossus than any character in mass effect.

 

I enjoyed mass effect like a bad sci-fi movie, but deep or emotional it was not.

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

I had more emotional attachment to my horse in Shadow of the Colossus than any character in mass effect.

 

That just goes without saying.

[Humodour]

mass effect "romances" were tremendously laughable.

 

Bioware romances in general are tremendously laughable.

[entrerix]

it might be my memory playing tricks on me, but the one with the creepy girl elf who had her wings ripped off in Baldurs Gate 2 was ok? maybe? I haven't played that game since I was 12. So maybe it looked good to a 12 year old and now that I'm old it would be pathetic.

[Aristes]

No, I think the one with Aerie (or whatever her name was) is actually a decent example. In that case, you've saved her and the dialogue that gets you in her pants is more or less reasonable. I don't think you could count on having her as a love interest if she weren't 'damaged goods,' but at least that rings true of real life. You know, you get a lot of points for saving the cheerleader, so to speak.

[mkreku]

I'm gonna kill you all if this romance thread becomes bigger than the guns thread

[alanschu]

I enjoyed the Jaheira one in BG, but really the romances are all kinda silly. Though IMO the best ones were the BG2 ones, but perhaps that's because of the scope of the game?

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

I'm surprised K2's romances haven't been mentioned yet. Those were creepy.

[213374U]

I suppose the very notion of an intimate relationship with some guy that feeds off your life force to keep going and bends your will like he isn't even trying is necessarily "creepy". I don't think Darth Nihilus is the kind of guy that picks you up after work, takes you to the movies, buys you popcorn, etc. He's more like the dark brooding type, y'know?

 

I'm still waiting for Obsidian to get their high school dating sim out the door, anyway. They could even recycle some of the work done for Crucible, such as the atmosphere of uncertainty and dread. And the pouncing animations. RAWR