Magister Lajciak Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 The case was awaiting the EC's ruling (funny that an executive political organ can exercise what's effectively judicial authority, don't you think? - we invented separation of powers, we can do away with it just as easily) It's worse than you think. The European Commission exercises not just executive and judicial authority, but also has legislative powers. For the moment, I don't think there have been huge cases of abuse of this combination of powers by the European Commission, but the danger is there, especially as more and more powers get transferred from the European nation-states to the EU, so reform of the legislative/executive/judicial processes at the EU level is desirable. The new Constitutional Treaty/Lisbon Treaty does not address this. It transfers more powers to the EU level, but does not reform the combined legislative/executive/judicial function of the European Commission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gfted1 Posted June 15, 2009 Author Share Posted June 15, 2009 Form your point of view as a consumer, you won't even notice it. Most OEMs will ship a browser That does mitigate my anger. Hopefully, you are right about this. Even if it doesnt ship with an OEM browser, from the article: Microsoft claims the opposite, saying consumers would be free to choose whether or not to install Internet Explorer on Windows 7 and "will also be free, as they are today, to install other Web browsers." It said it will give PC users who want the browser a way to obtain it. "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taks Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 So, in summary, because nothing can exist without government, everything is governments fault. in actuality, you are incapable of making any legitimate argument that is not otherwise considered a logical fallacy (informal or otherwise). this one, btw, could a slippery slope, or a strawman (red herring in general). tell me, gorgon, do you have ANY argument? ANY evidence to counter my claim? thought not. you typify exactly what marx wanted: an uneducated populace. taks comrade taks... just because. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taks Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 if brain-trusts such as gorgon actually took the time to read up on a subject, they'd understand the entire reason the concept of a monopoly exists in the first place: a post-hoc reason offered as an excuse to control the economy. early US anti-trust regulations actually began, in part, because farmers wanted to exclude competition from larger, less expensive, more efficient farming companies. in other words, they want the government to cut out their competition! indeed, morons then go about claiming anti-trust regulation is meant to help the consumer. bull****. anyone that actually believes this is either stupid, or lying. what are you, gorgon? both, i'd assume. taks comrade taks... just because. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgon Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 So, in summary, because nothing can exist without government, everything is governments fault. in actuality, you are incapable of making any legitimate argument that is not otherwise considered a logical fallacy (informal or otherwise). this one, btw, could a slippery slope, or a strawman (red herring in general). tell me, gorgon, do you have ANY argument? ANY evidence to counter my claim? thought not. you typify exactly what marx wanted: an uneducated populace. taks I would like to see something to indicate that a monopoly cannot exist without government, other than a circular argument. 'Because otherwise we would have seen evidence of it'. Come on man, that's weak. Na na na na na na ... greg358 from Darksouls 3 PVP is a CHEATER. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Though I'm loathe to regret, this, please elaborate: monopolies cannot exist without government laws/regulations in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
213374U Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Oh, shi- - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgon Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 (edited) Edit : Nevermind. Edited June 16, 2009 by Gorgon Na na na na na na ... greg358 from Darksouls 3 PVP is a CHEATER. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humodour Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 (edited) anti-trust laws are actually designed to control monopolies, not punish the successful monopolies cannot exist without government laws/regulations in the first place. Are you going to bother justifying that outrageous claim in any way or just let it sit there? Edited June 18, 2009 by Krezack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meshugger Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 taks: What's your take on the Sherman Antitrust act and the following breakup of Standard Oil? Why was it wrong? "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgoth Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 So, what if I have a fresh install and no backup data? How am I supposed to download Firefox in the first place if I don't have IE? How inconvenient. Rain makes everything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humodour Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 So, what if I have a fresh install and no backup data? How am I supposed to download Firefox in the first place if I don't have IE? How inconvenient. It is inconvenient. That's probably one of the reasons the EU is mandating the ability to select and install a browser without depending on the OEM to provide one to start with. Though I think even Microsoft's bastard solution has a line hidden in it to the effect of "users can elect to install Internet Explorer" - i.e. it's not installed by default, but it'll be lying around your Windows directory somewhere if you chose to install it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
213374U Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 taks: What's your take on the Sherman Antitrust act and the following breakup of Standard Oil? Why was it wrong?It was wrong because it didn't break any monopolies... arguably it made things worse, as it facilitated speculation, and diversified operations also makes any wrongdoing much harder to detect. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Sisters_(oil_companies) Yeah, yeah. I'm not taks. So sue me. Though I think even Microsoft's bastard solution has a line hidden in it to the effect of "users can elect to install Internet Explorer" - i.e. it's not installed by default, but it'll be lying around your Windows directory somewhere if you chose to install it.What would be the point of that when they can have it be an optional component to install via Windows Update? - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gfted1 Posted June 18, 2009 Author Share Posted June 18, 2009 What would be the point of that when they can have it be an optional component to install via Windows Update? Dont you need a browser to do a Windows update? I know when I click on the update function it opens a new tab in Explorer and navigates itself to the URL. "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
213374U Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 What would be the point of that when they can have it be an optional component to install via Windows Update? Dont you need a browser to do a Windows update? I know when I click on the update function it opens a new tab in Explorer and navigates itself to the URL. I'm using Vista Home Premium and it does it through a taskbar app which connects and downloads everything by itself. - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meshugger Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 taks: What's your take on the Sherman Antitrust act and the following breakup of Standard Oil? Why was it wrong?It was wrong because it didn't break any monopolies... arguably it made things worse, as it facilitated speculation, and diversified operations also makes any wrongdoing much harder to detect. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Sisters_(oil_companies) Yeah, yeah. I'm not taks. So sue me. Though I think even Microsoft's bastard solution has a line hidden in it to the effect of "users can elect to install Internet Explorer" - i.e. it's not installed by default, but it'll be lying around your Windows directory somewhere if you chose to install it.What would be the point of that when they can have it be an optional component to install via Windows Update? Fair enough, but how to deal with cartels? Will they dissolve automatically by a vibrant and chaotic market? "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
213374U Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Fair enough, but how to deal with cartels? Will they dissolve automatically by a vibrant and chaotic market?HIIK. If I had a definitive answer, I'd be writing for obscure economic journals and giving lectures in universities... - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walsingham Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 I only just read this and I've already got a headache. As companies get bigger and more successful they often tend to try and shore up their position by use of anti-competitive initiatives. This an be anything from pricing bundles to men with hammers in dark alleyways. The only way to prevent them doing so is - magically everyone becoming really brave and selfless so they take the tough decisions that would stop them inherently - violent peasant revolts - government laws and law enforcement. "It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"." -Elwood Blues tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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