Niten_Ryu Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Kratos is most definately evil. Let's see... Dungeon Keeper 1 and 2. Syndicate and Syndicate Wars. Warcraft 2 Orc campaign. Warcraft 3 Illidan, Arthas, Burning Legion and Undead campaigns. Overlord 1 and 2. Lara Croft in original Tomb Raider was probably evil as she killed tons of endangered animals and robbed ancent treasures for herself. Every GTA main character were evil in their own way. Maybe Tommy Vercetti from Vice City was the worst. Let's play Alpha Protocol My misadventures on youtube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oner Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Illidan wasn't really evil imo, more like.. what's the word.. irresponsible. And dumb, but irresponsible mainly. Giveaway list: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DgyQFpOJvyNASt8A12ipyV_iwpLXg_yltGG5mffvSwo/edit?usp=sharing What is glass but tortured sand?Never forget! '12.01.13. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmud Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Then again playing evil is overrated. I am much more interested in being able to play a character that is neither sitting on his high horse or eating babies for breakfast. And preferably without being punished for my insolence by silly game mechanics that force moral behavior through design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oner Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Then again playing evil is overrated.I am much more interested in being able to play a character that is neither sitting on his high horse or eating babies for breakfast. And preferably without being punished for my insolence by silly game mechanics that force moral behavior through design. That's exactly what we're (for lack of a better word in my vocabulary) complaining about. Giveaway list: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DgyQFpOJvyNASt8A12ipyV_iwpLXg_yltGG5mffvSwo/edit?usp=sharing What is glass but tortured sand?Never forget! '12.01.13. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowtrain Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Then again playing evil is overrated.I am much more interested in being able to play a character that is neither sitting on his high horse or eating babies for breakfast. And preferably without being punished for my insolence by silly game mechanics that force moral behavior through design. The problem is that eating babies for breakfat is cartoon evil. And yeah, that is the way most crpgs portray being evil. And it is hardly compelling. I think the main reason developers don't try to develop the concept of evil much further is because real evil is pretty subtle and nefarious. Evil often does "good" things in pursuit of evil ends. In computer games evil is usually simplified to dumb and brutal. Evil is much more intersting when it is charasmatic, seductive, and subtle. With the occasional bout of brutality thrown in when necessary, of course. Look at the whole concept of doing a quest for a reward. Why would an evil charcter ever turn down a quest in a crpg? They know they get more from doing the quest than by simply slaughtering the quest giver and slowly depopulating the world. Yet crpgs offer the choice more often than not of good=do the quest and bad=call ghe questgiver nasty names and perhaps kill them. The only crpg I can think of that tried to track a more subtle evil was PS:T. I don't know how well it worked either since I don't think you cold really play Namelesss as a dark and rising evil. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowtrain Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 That I think is one problem with how developers portray evil, they trivialize it until it becomes cartoonish. So do players.* That's the problem with "evil", what is it exactly? * I suppose there is a market for cartoonish evil, considering games in which we play the villian (like Overlord) tend to go for the comedic angle. Yes, I agree. I'm definitely not saying cartoon evil = bad. Cartoon evil has its place definitely. And I also agree that the question "what is evil" is pretty interesting and would be probably a neat place to start development of a crpg that allowed you to play evil. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
213374U Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 And I also agree that the question "what is evil" is pretty interesting and would be probably a neat place to start development of a crpg that allowed you to play evil.Uh huh. When most players can't seem to agree on "what is evil"... http://forums.obsidian.net/index.php?showtopic=45715 http://forums.obsidian.net/index.php?showtopic=44926 http://forums.obsidian.net/index.php?showtopic=40573 - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hell Kitty Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 a dark and rising evil What is a dark and rising evil? I think part of the problem is that in reality evil is a label given to others, rather than something people see themselves as, which is how it works it games. "I just slaughtered the whole town for so reason! I'm so evil." Real people don't commit acts such as murder because they are evil. Would an evil character see themselves as evil? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristes Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 I think evil is a perfectly legitimate term for characters within the work. I also see it as a perfectly legitimate way for players to see PC and NPC interactions. I don't think it's a legitimate way for the design team to construe our actions. Of course, with crappy alignment/morality rules that are part of the ruleset, such as in DnD and SW, what can the design team do. They can't help but make decisions about the morality of PC actions. It's part of the license and they will use it. It's like that thing with George Ziets that someone posted a long time ago. The designer might not like using alignment, but it's part of the system and the design team is compelled to make use of it. If Dragon Age can refrain from trying to quantify and qualify the innate morality of player decisions, the game and the player can take care of that aspect themselves. The designers can assess player morality from the point of view of the NPCs. The player can understand his reasoning, moral or otherwise, from his own point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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