FO: NV

[entrerix]

i am so excited about killing 3 dog now! I had no idea beth would let me do that! maybe they did learn some lessons from oblivions everyone with a line of dialogue is invincible

[Starwars]

I didn't really like the radio station either. I think it just gave the player to much of a "safety net" somehow. Somehow it just doesn't feel lonely enough when you have the possibility to turn on the radio whenever you want.

 

Three Dog also *really* got on my nerves after a while, and the "good fight" nonsense was a bit painful to listen to. An idea I do like a lot is that some of the quest stuff comes back to you via the radio, but of course that reactivity could be put in other places of the game.

 

I did like the Enclave radio with the president rambling from the eyebots, but still. I'd rather that the player doesn't have the "luxury" of being able to turn on a radio whenver he wants.

 

I will also agree that while Fallout 3 is quite visually coherent and generally beautiful to look at overall. The consistancy of the actual content was all over the place, which is a reason why I have a hard time with Bethesdas games (the recent ones anyway). On one hand you have a pretty damn good quest like the one with the Android where you have a bunch of different solutions and levels to the quest. On the other hand, you walk into a town where two really stupid looking' super heroes are combatting each other. It's just way to over the place.

[entrerix]

i agree 100% with all that about inconsistency.

 

It's ok to have wildly disparate things happening if your tonally consistent and/or very conscious of internal consistency. F3 had none of either. At least in fallout 1 there were farms or other explanations for how people were surviving.

 

helping explain crop rotation is still one of my favorite moments of any fallout game, it felt so realistic, and was a great use of science/intelligence in dialogue

 

I was trully appalled at the lack of farming in F3. like no joke, it was one the things I noticed most about the improbability. maybe just because I admired it so much in the first games.

 

it sounds nitpicky to many people, but it makes a difference to the overall product if there are blemishes all over it. A really delicious cake with a dead bug inside is still kinda gross even if the dead bug only touched part of the cake.

 

to make my comparison more ridiculous - the clunky interface of fallout 1 would be like serving the cake on paper plates instead of fine china, cake is the best cake ever eaten, but could have been served better. Fallout 3 is cake with dead bug in it - delicious in many places but... kinda awful in others

[Aristes]

Like VATS, you could turn off the radio if you wanted. I guess I'm one of those rare players who actually liked the game. I know that there must have been one or two of us, at least.

 

I liked the radio. I even liked Three Dog. For the most part, my only problem with Three Dog is that the banter reached the end and just looped around. So you could say that I got bored with his chatter and just wanted the music. When I wanted to stealth, I just turned off the radio on my pip-boy. For folks who hated the radio, that works really well. I mean, this isn't like refraining from using all your skill points at level up. You didn't need to listen to the radio to finish the game and so it was entirely optional. There is nothing artificial about choosing to toggle the radio. Of all the beefs, saying you hated having the radio on makes the least sense to me.

 

On the other hand, I really enjoyed the music. I even liked Three Dog for the most part, even though I ended up tuning him out. So, I hope they have some way to catch some good oldies in NV. If they don't, it won't be all that bad. I can understand the idea of wandering the silent waste in isolation. Fine. Having a wide assortment of oldies is also very nice.

 

For my part, I think the biggest problem with the radio is that the choice was between Three Dog, who had 'I'm the rebellious good guy' pasted on his forehead and the 'eeeeeevvviiiiiiiiiil' enclave radio. I think they could have put better variety on the enclave radio and made it a real choice. Of course, some folks probably LURVE marches, so they'd disagree with me.

[bhlaab]

I don't think lonliness is quite a big a theme in Fallout as most people seem to say (including the original developers but im right and theyre wrong how you you like them apples)

I always tend to gather a posse of followers, mostly because I like the idea of the game becoming sort of a buddy movie adventure. And since, in the classic ones, time spent outside of towns is mostly a blank map screen the lonliness never really came through to me.

 

I really appreciate the juxtaposition between the cheerfully optimistic 40s music and the desolate wasteland, though. And surely that ironic goofiness is part of what makes Fallout's retro futurism tick. I also like how the old songs, specifically the somber ones like Maybe take on new, deeper, darker meaning when applied to a post-apocalyptic setting.

 

I wish there was some way to mod GNR into the old games!

[bhlaab]

If you kill Three Dog all that stuff about the good fight goes away. The intern just says stuff like "You're probably wondering why I'm not Three Dog. Well, some **** killed him! Here's some music" No more public service announcements or reactions to your deeds. Just straight to the point

[entrerix]

uh aristes, if you think I disliked fallout 3 you need to reread my posts.

 

I loved fallout 3, it just had lots of crappy things in it. I , like many people, can like things while disliking parts of them (ie 3dog). I don't like how the movie aliens has an ending. still my favorite movie though!

 

also, i told you that I hated the pip-radio so I played with it turned it off. So uh thanks for telling me I could turn it off?

 

my bigger beef was the lack of farms (as example of internal consistency) and good dialogue.

 

cmon you cant tell me that because you liked F3 that you liked every single part of it... I just wouldnt believe you.

Edited June 19, 2009 by entrerix

[bhlaab]

For me it's the other way around. I hate everything Fallout 3 stands for, but I can't tell you that I hated every single part of it. In fact, if it wasn't pretending to be a Fallout game I'd probably be much warmer to it.

[Aristes]

Oh, no. I didn't like every single thing in FO3. In fact, I tend to agree with the lists detractors make. I guess the biggest difference is that I tended to be able to overlook the bad stuff more than some other folks. Hell, I agree with all sorts of what Crashgirl says and yet my conclusions are way different.

 

No, my comments tend to come across more pointed than I intend them. On the other hand, no one can doubt my pointed comments at all! haha

 

Seriously, though, I don't need a radio. I would, however, like a good assortment of tunes built into the game. The radio station supplied that.

 

As for the other inconsistencies, the one that irritated me the most is entirely irrational on my part. I hated the fact that an organization as tight as Rivet City didn't clean crap out of the hallways in order to ensure the safety of the citizens. What, picking up crap and ditching it or storing it for use as scrap metal requires advanced technology? What the hell?

[entrerix]

I'd be the first person to sign a petition to have fallout 3 renamed into Fallout: DC.

 

just take the 3 off it and you've got a great spinoff game. Leaving it like its supposed to be a sequel to fallout 1 and 2... thats kinda crazy

 

oh and I dont mean to call you (aristes) out like a jerk, I just thought YOU thought that I was saying something I didnt mean. Besides, you and I have seen eye to eye on lots of stuff before so I wasnt taking it too personally.

 

:also : totally agree about rivet city, its like, you have the ability to make armored uniforms for an entire police force but you can't grow crops or at least organize your ship?

Edited June 19, 2009 by entrerix

[bhlaab]

  entrerix said:

I'd be the first person to sign a petition to have fallout 3 renamed into Fallout: DC.

 

That's not really it. Something like that would help, but I would really just prefer if Bethesda had made their own franchise and left Fallout to, well, the Fallout people!

 

For example Oblivion I don't care for, but it's fair enough that they made a lot of changes from Morrowind because Elder Scrolls theirs to change. Fallout just doesn't seem like it belongs to them enough for them to screw with the formula. And now it's like they've created the "new face" of Fallout and we'll never see a 'true' one in the series ever again. Sad, is all. But I do have a lot of confidence in Obsidian and JE Sawyer to push at least one of the wheels back on track in terms of dialogue, quest design, and world versimillitude. Baby steps, you know.

[Tagaziel]

Simple way to include music in Fo:NV: your PIP-Boy (or whatever thingamajig Obsidian decides to use as your PIP) can store music clips, comes with a few in the beginning and you can expand the collection with holotapes you find, files you download, records you take (tribal musicians for instance). Elegant, simple, consistent with the setting.

 

And gives a tasty slice for all collector freaks.

[bhlaab]

  Mikael Grizzly said:

Simple way to include music in Fo:NV: your PIP-Boy (or whatever thingamajig Obsidian decides to use as your PIP) can store music clips, comes with a few in the beginning and you can expand the collection with holotapes you find, files you download, records you take (tribal musicians for instance). Elegant, simple, consistent with the setting.

 

And gives a tasty slice for all collector freaks.

 

This is a good idea, but I think a radio station is important to get a little bit of community feedback on some of your bigger quests.

 

Maybe you could hoarde the tapes for yourself or donate the ones you find to the radio station. Or steal the ones the radio station has for your own personal use...

 

I said this in one of these threads, but I would prefer it if there is a radio station that the DJ doesn't sermonize as much. It'd be cool to have a purely money-grubbing operation and you get little sing songy commercials advertising a certain slaver camp has having the "best, strongest, and cleanest. When you see the Khan brand, it stands for Quality!" etc

[Oner]

  entrerix said:

I'd be the first person to sign a petition to have fallout 3 renamed into Fallout: DC.

 

just take the 3 off it and you've got a great spinoff game. Leaving it like its supposed to be a sequel to fallout 1 and 2... thats kinda crazy

This.

 

I remembered now when someone on the Beth forums posted something along the lines of "why are fallout fans expecting Beth to make a fallout game for them?"

Gee, I dunno, maybe because when you make a sequel to something, you make it for the fans, cuz a) they want the sequel, b) they're the ones that are going to buy it? And it's called Fallout, not Elder Scrolls?

Edited June 19, 2009 by Oner

[Tagaziel]

A radio station doesn't fit. All the resources required to run it, namely power to sustain a continuous broadcast that can be clearly received by PIPs, spare parts to maintain the machines, defenses against the wasteland and disgruntled listeners, food and water to sustain the crew are, in essence, wasted on something that's practically useless. The people of the wasteland need food, water, guns and shelter, not a howling retard most won't even be able to receive.

 

Feedback on your deeds is better shown in other ways, take Obs' KOTOR2 for example. Your crewmembers, for instance, react to changes in your alignment, your deeds, choices, time spent with other crewmembers and they do it perfectly. People in the world also react to your actions, in various ways, not just a single pre-programmed one. And while there is no radio in the game, not once did I feel that my choices are meaningless.

 

Which, by the way, was the case in Fo3. Despite that retards howling and screaming on the radio, I never really felt that I was making any kind of impact on the world.

[Oner]

We made an impact on Ron Pearlman. My heart almost broke when he called me a selfish jerk for not killing myself at the end. :_(

[Tagaziel]

The ending narration was such a far cry from the original Fallouts that I felt sorry for Mr Perlman.

[Oner]

I can relate to that.

[Aristes]

The ending was particularly weak.

[Oner]

I liked the family photo part, but yeah, apart from that, it was horrible.

[Tagaziel]

I never understood the family photo part. I hate the Father character. Badly written, badly planned, couple that with some atrocious plot devices and you get... a bad character. It seems Beth tried to make him likeable, to have the player bond with him... but to me, all they achieved is limitless hatred for the character.

 

Especially the sequence with Autumn. God dammit, I pictured my character banging his fists against the glass, screaming "Don't do it you retard!" at the Dad. If it was possible, I'd shoot Li in the face afterwards and wait for the Enclave to pick me up. Because, frankly, Autumn was a good guy.

Edited June 19, 2009 by Mikael Grizzly

[bhlaab]

  Mikael Grizzly said:

A radio station doesn't fit. All the resources required to run it, namely power to sustain a continuous broadcast that can be clearly received by PIPs, spare parts to maintain the machines, defenses against the wasteland and disgruntled listeners, food and water to sustain the crew are, in essence, wasted on something that's practically useless. The people of the wasteland need food, water, guns and shelter, not a howling retard most won't even be able to receive.

 

Feedback on your deeds is better shown in other ways, take Obs' KOTOR2 for example. Your crewmembers, for instance, react to changes in your alignment, your deeds, choices, time spent with other crewmembers and they do it perfectly. People in the world also react to your actions, in various ways, not just a single pre-programmed one. And while there is no radio in the game, not once did I feel that my choices are meaningless.

 

Which, by the way, was the case in Fo3. Despite that retards howling and screaming on the radio, I never really felt that I was making any kind of impact on the world.

 

Well first off, realism isn't the end-all be-all in a post apocalytpic rpg. As long as it's explained in a way that at a quick glance you go "yeah, that makes sense", it's fine. For example, yeah Three Dog's setup didn't make much sense. But what if, in New Vegas, it's a radio station set up by some power-player moguls (something equivalent to a New Reno family in fo2), and is supported by sponsored ads? And as for maintaining the machines, come on. This is a game series where you go into abandoned, ruined vaults and find operative computers that will play chess with you.

 

I think a big difference between any game in the Fallout series and Kotor 2 is that in Fallout your story is more focused on a single character from modest origins going from town to town and eventually affecting the entire region to the point where they are remembered for years to come. I think it's a good thing to see how the general word on the street across the entire region changes as you do things.

 

I'd like to see the radio become a lot more reactive, though. Take stuff like being able to kill the DJs and multiply it into every aspect of their broadcast.

"Well, right now we'd like to play a brief commercial from our sponsors at Fran and Dan 's Trade & Supply, but some maniac killed Fran AND Dan in cold blood so I guess there's not much point. Onto the news! Seems the Hoover Dam's been shut down beyond repair by a myserious assailant. If you're a fan of electricity, you may want to be on the lookout for an african american dame with an ichy trigger finger and a silver tongue. Could this be the same broad that shut down the cannibal operation in Desert Hills?"

[Oner]

I'm not sure how I feel about "Dad" (in fact, I have no idea), I just liked that small scene. Granted, it's easy to pull off, but I never said it was anything special.

[Wombat]

I have no idea why so many people play FO3 while complaining of it... I wonder if I'm getting jaded but I became really selective in terms of the games.

 

As for the radio, it would be interesting if the radio reacts to what the protagonist did directly or indirectly.

[bhlaab]

I guess the biggest things for the radio station are:

 

-more points of interactivity

-less sermonizing. I don't need the game telling me which action I did was jesus-like and which was satanistic. This is the news REPORT THE FACTS >(