Aram Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 FO2 had the M3. And it used the one handed sub-machine firing animation of the 10mm. WHich always bugged me a little. I've never fired an M3 myself, but I find it difficult to imagine it could be fired accurately with one hand. I think 10mm recoil is even worse than .45 ACP. Then again, you carry around miniguns in Fallout so... I always assumed that the Fallout 10mm is different than the real world 10mm Auto--some other fictional animal entirely. Otherwise it's another anachronism as the 10mm Auto is a decidedly 1980s bit of gun curio. Of course the Desert Eagle is like the second most common hand gun in there, so who knows.
Pop Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 The cops in my town actually carry 10mm ordinance. I guess it's fairly unique. Join me, and we shall make Production Beards a reality!
GreasyDogMeat Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 I really liked Bethesda's redesigns on the classic Fallout weapons. This http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/10mm_SMG#Fallout_3 looks like it might actually exist and be functional as opposed to this http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/10mm_SMG clunker.
Aram Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 (edited) It still screams a bit too much of plastic, unwieldy 1980s guns like the Tec-9--fashioned more like they wanted to appeal to Hollywood action heroes than real shooters or soldiers--than something from the 50s. Edited May 12, 2009 by Aram
GreasyDogMeat Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 It still screams a bit to much of plastic, unwieldy 1980s guns like the Tec-9--fashioned more like they wanted to appeal to Hollywood action heroes than real shooters or soldiers--than something from the 50s. True, but Fallout's world went on to 2077, before the nuclear holocaust, stuck in the 50s. It doesn't seem that unlikely that a few things, like weapons, might change.
Gizmo Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 (edited) Years ago a bunch of guys got it into their heads that Predator was a cool movie, and "Old Painless" would work great as a means to clear helicopter landing sights in rough country. They really tried. They wanted a guy to drop down and spray the area but found out that the Mini-gun Mr. Ventura used could only run at a 1000RPM on the batteries instead of full speed. The battery cables were run up his pant-leg and he had to wear a flack vest to not get beat up from the shell casings; They found that a guy can't carry the power supply and the ammo [along with the gun itself] that would make it worth bringing; and if he did ~Firing it would spin him around like a top and shower his own team with bullets. (its the recoil on top of recoil on top of recoil on top of recoil.......). Thing is... Power is small and cheap in Fallout. Supermutants are strong ~Strong enough to do it (and they have the weight!); Power Armor should give the weight and the strength (the game F2 lists one at 45lbs. but that should be changed to 300lbs or more and limit the player to traveling on strong surfaces) ~Fallout 3+ should no longer allow an unarmored PC to use one [a sacrifice for the added "realism" that the new games are bent on providing]. IMO laser gats should have the advantage of being "light weight", and regular miniguns should have a real advantage for being able to hurl the lead (but be arduously heavy to haul, use, and maintain). Needless to say... it should also enforce a weight limit and penalties... you can't jump with a minigum and a flamer in your inventory now can you ~but then they never did in FO 1 & 2. ~Have it copy Halo a bit more (again) and be a two or three weapon game, not for only two slots, but for the weight. [iE pistols and rifles, grenades and more ~or a missile launcher with 10 rockets ~Or a minigun with three cases of ammo (generous)]. Edited May 12, 2009 by Gizmo
J.E. Sawyer Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 I always assumed that the Fallout 10mm is different than the real world 10mm Auto--some other fictional animal entirely. Otherwise it's another anachronism as the 10mm Auto is a decidedly 1980s bit of gun curio. Of course the Desert Eagle is like the second most common hand gun in there, so who knows. Chris Taylor was enamored with 10mm Auto as a crazy moon caliber. But yeah, there is some overlap with this stuff. Modern assault rifles in .223/5.56mm and 7.62mm, miniguns, and all that stuff are also post-1950s, but they're still in all the Fallouts. EDIT: Oh and the 1944 Mauser K98k is mine, a Russian war capture. twitter tyme
Kjarista Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 [The M3 Grease gun is one of them. FO2 had the M3. And it used the one handed sub-machine firing animation of the 10mm. WHich always bugged me a little. I've never fired an M3 myself, but I find it difficult to imagine it could be fired accurately with one hand. Can't fire it accurately with 2 hands either, but you are correct.
Aram Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 (edited) Chris Taylor was enamored with 10mm Auto as a crazy moon caliber. Hah. Some people still are. But yeah, there is some overlap with this stuff. Modern assault rifles in .223/5.56mm and 7.62mm, miniguns, and all that stuff are also post-1950s, but they're still in all the Fallouts. The .223 and the AR-15 are a late 50s development, actually. The heyday of 7.62mm battle rifles was the 50s. I can believe both of those, in some strange primitive-but-simultaneously-advanced form. The Vulcan gun which the minigun is the "mini" version of was also developed in the fifties, the mini version in the early sixties which were not unlike the fifties at all. I'm not particularly offended by the miniguns in Fallout because I can believe they would scale them down for use with power armor. They actually fit the setting very well. They should just be the end all be all of gunpowder weapons, should require power armor or very high strength, and ammo should not be nearly as available for them as it is. I could believe their feasibility in FO3 because based on their damage output I assumed their were firing something like a .22 short cartridge. Edited May 12, 2009 by Aram
Kjarista Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 I wonder if it would be possible to randomize the stats...within boundaries or by a small but noticeable amount, within type. That is, maybe the M3 I pick up now is slightly more inherently accurate than the one I already have. Could be justified by the thought that many of the remaining guns have been parted together with not quite matching parts. Might make scavving a bit more interesting.
Aram Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 If you could scrap a weapon for its one or two superior parts to permanently raise the stats of another, I would be much more willing to accept that than that you have to inevitably scrap four or five per battle just to keep your weapon maintained.
Syraxis Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 Since the topic is on weapons, what did everyone think of F3's 'Fatman'?
Kjarista Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 Chris Taylor was enamored with 10mm Auto as a crazy moon caliber. Hah. Some people still are. But yeah, there is some overlap with this stuff. Modern assault rifles in .223/5.56mm and 7.62mm, miniguns, and all that stuff are also post-1950s, but they're still in all the Fallouts. The .223 and the AR-15 are a late 50s development, actually. The heyday of 7.62mm battle rifles was the 50s. I can believe both of those, in some strange primitive-but-simultaneously-advanced form. The Vulcan gun which the minigun is the "mini" version of was also developed in the fifties, the mini version in the early sixties which were not unlike the fifties at all. I'm not particularly offended by the miniguns in Fallout because I can believe they would scale them down for use with power armor. They actually fit the setting very well. They should just be the end all be all of gunpowder weapons, should require power armor or very high strength, and ammo should not be nearly as available for them as it is. I could believe their feasibility in FO3 because based on their damage output I assumed their were firing something like a .22 short cartridge. That man portable minigun, ala preditor, was a microgun, 5.56 mm. The gun, with 1000 rounds, weighed a bit less than 100lbs, if I remember correctly. It was a prototype, and never issued, probably because it was a black hole for ammo. There's some photos of this thing clamped to Huey skids, but the 5.56 ammo was too weak for helicopter mount, or for normal machinegun operations, for that matter.
Kjarista Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 Since the topic is on weapons, what did everyone think of F3's 'Fatman'? It's a lot of fun to use, realism aside for a moment.
Gizmo Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 (edited) Since the topic is on weapons, what did everyone think of F3's 'Fatman'? The first two treated them with awe [nukes], and the third one made them a game unto itself. **However, I'd have been fine with the thing allowing the player to actually wipe away map locations with one (and with very ~very few shots in the game.) FO Fatmans need to have standard chances for critical failures tho'. [just my 2 Edited May 12, 2009 by Gizmo
Kjarista Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 Since the topic is on weapons, what did everyone think of F3's 'Fatman'? The first two treated them with awe [nukes], and the third one made them a game unto itself. I got a lot of joy dropping a mininuke on top of a vertibird at max fatman range. The explosion was...impressive.
Kefeinzel Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 They also had a P90 in fallout 2, and it was in the wrong caliber, lol and that weird HK thing that fires those square caseless cartridges, and the pancor jackhammer. Some of those are very recent guns so you have 50's guns, 80's guns, and modern guns... it's weird.
Kefeinzel Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 (edited) double post Edited May 12, 2009 by Kefeinzel
Slowtrain Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 I guess in the end, I would love to see Obsidian really concentrate on a single major story that has conseqneces and ramifications on the gameworld and not spend so much (or even any) time on these minor sidequests that don't really have any significance. Turning the sidequests into related sections of the main narrative would be OK. One major, well thought out, and complex narrative, combined with a decent amount of freeform exploration would be a good combination, I think. So make it nothing like Fallout then. I don't really defend and/or praise Fallout particularly. I just beat on Bethesda. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.
Gizmo Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 Since the topic is on weapons, what did everyone think of F3's 'Fatman'? The first two treated them with awe [nukes], and the third one made them a game unto itself. I got a lot of joy dropping a mininuke on top of a vertibird at max fatman range. The explosion was...impressive. Fallout 3 just trivialized the whole thing for me ~set the tone for the entire game
Slowtrain Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 FO2 had the M3. And it used the one handed sub-machine firing animation of the 10mm. WHich always bugged me a little. I've never fired an M3 myself, but I find it difficult to imagine it could be fired accurately with one hand. I think 10mm recoil is even worse than .45 ACP. Then again, you carry around miniguns in Fallout so... I think it is more the dimensions of the weapon that make it seem unwieldy for one handed firing rather than the power of the cartridges. I see the M3 as more along the lines of a Thompson, which I also have difficulty imagining being fired one-handed. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.
Kjarista Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 (edited) Since the topic is on weapons, what did everyone think of F3's 'Fatman'? The first two treated them with awe [nukes], and the third one made them a game unto itself. I got a lot of joy dropping a mininuke on top of a vertibird at max fatman range. The explosion was...impressive. Fallout 3 just trivialized the whole thing for me ~set the tone for the entire game that and everything else, it seems. Regardless, I enjoy it. Edited May 12, 2009 by Kjarista
Aram Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 (edited) Since the topic is on weapons, what did everyone think of F3's 'Fatman'? I like it because it's actually based on one of those ridiculous things of the Cold War era, and in a game of portable miniguns and power armor there's no reason it doesn't fit the setting. I would rather it had been some kind of a one time deal though, like the only way to defeat a particularly powerful boss. As it was it was just a way to one shot the one or two enemies I couldn't take out with a single round of vats, and the novelty faded quickly because it usually had no discernible effect on the environments. Edited May 12, 2009 by Aram
Kjarista Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 FO2 had the M3. And it used the one handed sub-machine firing animation of the 10mm. WHich always bugged me a little. I've never fired an M3 myself, but I find it difficult to imagine it could be fired accurately with one hand. I think 10mm recoil is even worse than .45 ACP. Then again, you carry around miniguns in Fallout so... I think it is more the dimensions of the weapon that make it seem unwieldy for one handed firing rather than the power of the cartridges. I see the M3 as more along the lines of a Thompson, which I also have difficulty imagining being fired one-handed. it's both, actually. It's very front heavy. Even when using both hands, it's less accurate than the pistol of the same caliber. They really aren't that useful.
Kjarista Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 Since the topic is on weapons, what did everyone think of F3's 'Fatman'? I like it because it's actually based on one of those ridiculous things of the Cold War era, and in a game of portable miniguns and power armor there's no reason it doesn't fit the setting. I would rather it had been some kind of a one time deal though, like the only way to defeat a particularly powerful boss. As it was it was just a way to one shot the one or two enemies I couldn't take out with a single round of vats, and the novelty faded quickly because it usually had no discernible effect on the environments. I spent some time finding the largest explosion possible using Fatman. I think shooting it in the abandoned car tunnel near Dupont Circle wins.
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