Kelverin Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 NEW YORK J1 Visa Southern California Cleaning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Ouch. Hurts LA big time. Still, banning drugs is dumb anyways; but hey, rules are rules. Even dumb ones. I guess. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gfted1 Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 ^Why is banning performance enhancing drugs stupid? "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelverin Posted May 7, 2009 Author Share Posted May 7, 2009 Not this again... J1 Visa Southern California Cleaning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gfted1 Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Not this again... Lol, have you guys already discussed that in another thread? "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamael Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Every argument with Volourn is pretty much the same. You can't win, don't even try. For what it is worth, my opinion has always been that to the extent that performance enhancing drugs are harmful to one's health, they should be prohibited in sports. The day when one cannot succeed without endangering one's health is the day when athletics has become its own parody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyCrimson Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 (edited) NEW YORK — Manny Ramirez was suspended for 50 games by Major League Baseball on Thursday, becoming the latest high-profile player ensnared in the sport's drug scandals. Seriously? LOL Maybe that's why he was always causing a ruckus. Now maybe all the BoSox fans who still holler that we shouldn't have let Manny go will shut up about we "need" him. I'm still laughing.* *I don't personally think performance drugs in pro-sports are cool/should be used, unless perhaps everyone used them(and the same ones), if y'know what I mean - but I still find this hilarious. Edited May 7, 2009 by LadyCrimson “Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelverin Posted May 7, 2009 Author Share Posted May 7, 2009 My 6 year-old son's favorite player is Ramirez (thanks to MVP 2005) I get the "pleasure" of explaining what happened to his hero J1 Visa Southern California Cleaning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gfted1 Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Hmm, interesting. Im not so concered with their health, they are taking the drugs of their own free will and Im sure they are aware of the dangers. Im more concerned with "the game", whichever game that may be. IMO, performance enhancing drugs ruin the credibility of the sport and the athletes. "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyCrimson Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 IMO, performance enhancing drugs ruin the credibility of the sport and the athletes. It only "ruins" it because it's not part of the rules ... ie, not everyone uses it, therefore the 'contest' isn't an equal playing field. Maybe they could have steroid-leagues for those who want to compete w/others who like to chemically enhance all they can be. “Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamael Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Hmm, interesting. Im not so concered with their health, they are taking the drugs of their own free will and Im sure they are aware of the dangers. Im more concerned with "the game", whichever game that may be. IMO, performance enhancing drugs ruin the credibility of the sport and the athletes. Oh, I don't care (much) about the health of those athletes who use steroids voluntarily, I care about those who would compete without endangering their health but cannot succeed because the competition is using drugs. If sports is to have any point at all the line must be set there, and it must never be compromised on. I don't really understand your point about the credibility of the game. Take all the side effects away, and what you have left is really only another form of training. Training, by the way, was frowned upon in the ancient olympics. The competitors were supposed to arrive in wartime condition, or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gfted1 Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 I use the word credibility in the same sense as yourself and LC, that the drugs create an unequal playing field. We want to see a mano a mano competitions where the same rules apply for all. "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyCrimson Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 (edited) What I've read some people worrying about in terms of 'credibility' is what such players do to stats/records. ie, you can no longer trust them. You could expunge personal records like "most bases stolen" but you can't expunge "World Series Win" ... ie, people begin to doubt a team would've won. I'm not sure how valid that might be ... I tend to think most of the time, not so much, but maybe once in a while. Edited May 7, 2009 by LadyCrimson “Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gfted1 Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 An excellent point LC, records are important in sports. "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Turns out they were "bedroom enhancing drugs" not the typical steroids. I'm really done caring about this stuff. I also think the term steroid is terribly abused. There are a ton of different substances out there, and the line between legal and illegal is terribly skewed. Sure, when a guy like Maguire goes from a skinny little guy to a huge tree trunk shaped guy, it's pretty clear he's juicing. But some of these guys are trying to rehab injuries, and it looks like Manny may have just been trying to get it up. Hopefully this gives the Giants a chance at the division though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Turns out they were "bedroom enhancing drugs" not the typical steroids. I'm really done caring about this stuff. I also think the term steroid is terribly abused. There are a ton of different substances out there, and the line between legal and illegal is terribly skewed. Sure, when a guy like Maguire goes from a skinny little guy to a huge tree trunk shaped guy, it's pretty clear he's juicing. But some of these guys are trying to rehab injuries, and it looks like Manny may have just been trying to get it up. Maybe, but most likely not. The stuff he was busted for was on the banned substances list because it is used between cycles of steroids to reduce side-effects. I'll admit that this is a very tough area from an ethical point of view-- really how do you ban certain medical aids to performance, while allowing others (like the shot of cortizone a pitcher gets in his shoulder to make his performance possible in the first place, or the laser eye surgery to get better-than-20/20 vision to help read the laces on a pitch)? But if a player tests positive for a substance that is on the banned list, he's got to pay the price, or the league rules are meaningless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyCrimson Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Turns out they were "bedroom enhancing drugs" not the typical steroids. I haven't seen anything that actually confirms the male enhancement rumor. Only that "sources" claim that's what the prescription Rameriz was getting was for. I don't consider unclaimed "sources" to be a reliable source of facts. Others say that he's not contesting the 50 game suspension equals he's afraid of an in-depth background probe etc. Take your pick on rumors. But it a good reminder that at this point it's too early to say how guilty Rameriz may be. No one can tell for sure who is/isn't just because of they way they look or perform. Drug tests become better/more subtle refined and ways to avoid/pass them become better. Yes there's a lot of stuff that can cause positive tests on someone who's likely not a regular/serious user of the "bad ones" but I think juicing is a lot more prevalent than people want to believe, and has been for years. “Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 "he's got to pay the price, or the league rules are meaningless." The rules are meaningless anyways as long as they allow performance enhancing drugs like pain killers. If you are in too much pain to perform without drugs then don't perform through artificial means? m i rite or m i rite? DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelverin Posted May 7, 2009 Author Share Posted May 7, 2009 "FINAL UPDATE: Spoke with several sources with knowledge of the tests and it appears that Ramirez is both guilty of offense and of some poor judgement. His doctor checked the list, but apparently the old list J1 Visa Southern California Cleaning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyCrimson Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 The rules are meaningless anyways as long as they allow performance enhancing drugs like pain killers. If you are in too much pain to perform without drugs then don't perform through artificial means? m i rite or m i rite? No, in the context you're bringing this up, I don't agree. Enoch said: But if a player tests positive for a substance that is on the banned list, He is, I assume, talking about rules, not morals. Whether a rule is stupid or not is subjective/moralistic and could be debated forever...the point tho is that if there's an official game rule and you're caught breaking it, you have to play by those rules and take the heat. “Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gfted1 Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 (edited) "he's got to pay the price, or the league rules are meaningless." The rules are meaningless anyways as long as they allow performance enhancing drugs like pain killers. If you are in too much pain to perform without drugs then don't perform through artificial means? m i rite or m i rite? U r wrng. Pain killers do exactly what they say on the tin, kill pain, the player is still exactly the same capability wise as they started. They dont make you stronger, faster, able to carry more O2 in your red blood cells, etc... Edited May 7, 2009 by Gfted1 "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killian Kalthorne Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Its baseball. Who cares? Its not like its a real sport. "Your Job is not to die for your country, but set a man on fire, and take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgon Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 There's spitting and crotch grabbing though. Na na na na na na ... greg358 from Darksouls 3 PVP is a CHEATER. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killian Kalthorne Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 And you can't get that in rugby? "Your Job is not to die for your country, but set a man on fire, and take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 am not recalling which sportswriter pointed out that to get caught by the mlb's current drug testing policy you gotta be a complete idiot. haven't actually watched a baseball game since the strike year... which is a real shame since the white sox finally won the series a few years ago. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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