Obsidian making Fallout: New Vegas

[Wombat]

Sawyer: I just wanted to say congratulations. I recall reading, some time ago, that the reason you entered into the world of game design was for the chance, somehow, sometime, of working on a Fallout game. It must have been discouraging to have Van Buren pulled out from under your feet. Now, however, you've been given a second chance. I know I've criticized some of your work and statements from time to time, but I'm sincerely pleased on your behalf. I hope and pray that you find the experience as rewarding as you've always expected. Good luck!

Do you mean the episode in which he enjoyed FO but thought he could do better and entered the industry? Yes, it came across to my mind when I happened to glance at his Xbox profile. Also, he is one of a few designers who have kept in touch with their fans through forums despite the hardship they had to get through.

 

I, however, must say that it is still too early to congratulate. Off the top of my head, he lead IWD: Heart of Winter, IWD2, Jefferson, Van Buren, NWN2 OC, and Aliens RPG. Only half of them have been completed and, even completed products were not satisfactory even to him. I think HoW was quite good in its own right, though. I'm yet another who'd like FO:V to be released in a good shape. I guess "Good Luck" is more like it.

[Gorth]

To stay on topic, could we have called shots to the groin and eyes, please?

That ought to be an animators dream... coming up with new and terrible ways to show the suffering of a melee attack to the groin

[Aristes]

I've never understood why folks were always so enamored of called shots. For my part, I don't care where I hit them as long as I do enough damage to kill them. Now, if I would have seen a significant advantage for shooting robotic sensors in that they had a dramatically reduced chance to hit me or something, then I would be a bigger fan. Yeah, shooting someone in the leg so they walk slower and limp is nice, but not all that exciting. The gore was kind of funny, but way over the top! However, seeing someone disemballed (haha) would be interesting.

[Sarkus]

I've never understood why folks were always so enamored of called shots. For my part, I don't care where I hit them as long as I do enough damage to kill them. Now, if I would have seen a significant advantage for shooting robotic sensors in that they had a dramatically reduced chance to hit me or something, then I would be a bigger fan. Yeah, shooting someone in the leg so they walk slower and limp is nice, but not all that exciting. The gore was kind of funny, but way over the top! However, seeing someone disemballed (haha) would be interesting.

 

The called shots made sense in Fallout 1/2 because while a head shot is obvious when you are shooting someone, groin and eye punches/cuts make sense in melee and unarmed fighting. So in that way it differentiated the experiences of those different types of combat.

 

I think Fallout 3 does a pretty good job with gun combat, but I'm less happy (and a lot of people agree) with how it supports melee and unarmed fighting. But I really don't expect notable engine changes from this title, so it's really a moot point IMHO to discuss engine changes. Obsidian's #1 goal has to be creating a good story and use of the setting.

[Tigranes]

Called shots are a good addition to any Fallout, but not having groin/eyes is not a big loss. If anything I'd like the recent trend of excruciatingly annoying slow motion + physically nonsensical every-time-a-bloody-mess to be reversed. A bigger focus on things like crippling legs, shooting weapons to disarm (which was present in FO3 but often harder to do than head-shotting) would be cool.

 

Wombat:

I find it odd that the same people who think that Obsidian should improve VATS while they, at the same time, think that they don't need to implement possible fast-travel tweak to FO1/2 style, insisting that they should optimize the seamless experience. I guess this is more to do with subjective game-play preferences rather than logical thinking.

 

It makes sense to me. If Obsidian were building their own engine for NV, for instance, I would argue for both an old-school World Map travel style over seamless world, and a new combat system without VATS. But realistically I don't see either happening. And without major overhauls, my opinion is that you're better off preserving the fundamental pillars of gameplay that are built into the engine - seamless worlds and RT/VATS combat. Just modifying and tweaking.

 

 

PS BTW, Tigranes, why do you omit the link to the original post? It is designed to help the reader to read the original post you quoted. ermm.gif

 

Comes from using Fast Reply all the time... oh wait, I did it again.

[Aristes]

I virtually never use anything but fast reply, bro, so don't feel bad. I agree about VATS, where my biggest grief really comes from having to wait for the slo mo business.

[Kjarista]

I've never understood why folks were always so enamored of called shots. For my part, I don't care where I hit them as long as I do enough damage to kill them. Now, if I would have seen a significant advantage for shooting robotic sensors in that they had a dramatically reduced chance to hit me or something, then I would be a bigger fan. Yeah, shooting someone in the leg so they walk slower and limp is nice, but not all that exciting. The gore was kind of funny, but way over the top! However, seeing someone disemballed (haha) would be interesting.

 

 

It does work that way though, at least with limbs. Shoot the mob in the gun arm and they drop the weapon. After they pick it up, their aim is horrible. Shooting the mob in the head often kills them outright, but at very least, they stop shooting at you for a second or two (hands to face animation) and that might be enough to take them down.

 

The eye and groin thing, along with the overland map, are mostly FO1/2 trappings that those folks miss in this game.

 

RE Vats:

 

On my first couple of playthroughs, I used VATS exclusively. Now I mostly run and gun, or snipe. I could live without it. On the other hand, it would be easy to include eyes and groin as VATS selectable called shots.

Edited April 27, 2009 by Kjarista

[Tagaziel]

The only way where VATS would be truly balanced, is when it's literally a pause - giving you time to choose your shot and then automatically execute it, but without any changes to speed, hit percentages etc.

 

Then it'd be more of a tactical choice to use it (since you can't move, making you vulnerable, but the negative modifier for running while firing disappears).

[jero cvmi]

Hello there, another nub speaking

Phew, finally read all 3 New Vegas threads and logged in to say:

 

Best of luck to the Obsidian people, i'm eagerly awaiting to see their work, i'm very happy they get a chance to work on fallout.

 

Now On-topic,

What i would expect mostly of Fallout: New Vegas, consists mainly of what i sorely missed in fallout 3:

 

-Good writing, challenging quests with hard choices, interesting dialogue, full text item/environment descriptions. Given the who is who in obsidian, the bar is set pretty high on that.

 

-A proper 3rd person "bird's eye" view with a floating fully rotatable camera. And a point & click interface please!

 

-Called shots in mellee/unarmed combat. groin/eye shots. And what Mikael Grizzly said.

 

-Bring back the old SPECIAL system where possible. I'm not sure if Bethesda's engine can support some things like Armor Penetration, Damage Threshold etc. but the real issue for me is that original SPECIAL was brilliant in balancing stats and skills, making it possible for an entirely different experience with different builds. Fallout 3 simplified it so much, every character seemed pretty much the same. I miss the "Stupid" dialog so much...

 

-Traits, negative drug effects, and generally the option for your character to actually have a handicap in return for a benefit, instead of being a "jack of all trades" munchkin.

 

-A more complicated reputation system, based on town/faction reputation besides "good vs. evil", in the syle of fallout 2.

I didn't really mind the karma system in the original games. It didn't feel so much like a supernatural moral alignment,i saw it more like a look in your character's eye that helps others tell a "goody two shoes" from a "badass mofo". Fallout 3 went too far with "good" vs. "evil" labelling of your character's actions i think. Fallout 2's system was more sophisticated.

 

And now for something completely different:

 

-Since the game is in Nevada and all, i think it would be fair to ask for something like Nevada Rangers, and toasters that need repairing

[Wombat]

Called shots are a good addition to any Fallout, but not having groin/eyes is not a big loss. If anything I'd like the recent trend of excruciatingly annoying slow motion + physically nonsensical every-time-a-bloody-mess to be reversed. A bigger focus on things like crippling legs, shooting weapons to disarm (which was present in FO3 but often harder to do than head-shotting) would be cool.

It probably requires adding some extra animation works for each opponent type, which may be the reason why it wasn't in in the first place.

 

It makes sense to me. If Obsidian were building their own engine for NV, for instance, I would argue for both an old-school World Map travel style over seamless world, and a new combat system without VATS. But realistically I don't see either happening. And without major overhauls, my opinion is that you're better off preserving the fundamental pillars of gameplay that are built into the engine - seamless worlds and RT/VATS combat. Just modifying and tweaking.

Then, just fix-the-current-issues opinion? I guess it makes sense in a way, then. My point was that both fast-travel and VATS are optional. So, if someone doesn't like them, then, he/she can simply ignore them.

 

PS BTW, Tigranes, why do you omit the link to the original post? It is designed to help the reader to read the original post you quoted. ermm.gif

Comes from using Fast Reply all the time... oh wait, I did it again.

That explains a lot...I use the quick reply option only when I don't need to quote.

Edited April 27, 2009 by Wombat

[Malcador]

I've never understood why folks were always so enamored of called shots. For my part, I don't care where I hit them as long as I do enough damage to kill them. Now, if I would have seen a significant advantage for shooting robotic sensors in that they had a dramatically reduced chance to hit me or something, then I would be a bigger fan. Yeah, shooting someone in the leg so they walk slower and limp is nice, but not all that exciting. The gore was kind of funny, but way over the top! However, seeing someone disemballed (haha) would be interesting.

 

Well called shots is useful when outnumbered or at some other form of disadvantage, shoot the arms of a guy with a big gun (I wish you could just shoot the weapon out of his hands, hit the eyes of a sniper, etc. It's a neat tactical tool. I do agree the gore was over the top, decapitating someone with a pistol shot was stupid.

[TwinkieGorilla]

I've never understood why folks were always so enamored of called shots.

 

well, because it's role-playing and getting specific adds to the scenario. not only that, but the text-box descriptions of what happens to the enemy if you've targeted a certain area was a big part of what gave Fallout that "Fallout feel", knowhutimean?

Edited April 27, 2009 by TwinkieGorilla

[Promethean]

We keep talking about how the game is gonna have great writing but the only thing of note the leader creative designer has done is Endwar. And its not like NWN 2 and SoZ had amazing dialogue and deep characters like MotB. How can we be sure F:NV will be up to snuff?

Edited April 27, 2009 by Promethean

[TwinkieGorilla]

We keep talking about how the game is gonna have great writing but the only thing of note the leader creative designer has done is Endwar. And its not like NWN 2 and SoZ had amazing dialogue and deep characters like MotB. How can we be sure F:NV will be up to snuff?

 

how can we be sure? we can't, of course. i for one am hoping that Avellone gets involved. but aside from that, look at my signature and ask yourself how hard it would be to improve upon that.

[Kelverin]

I do agree the gore was over the top, decapitating someone with a pistol shot was stupid.

At least it was balanced by the equally stupid "You critical hit the eyes for no damage"

[TwinkieGorilla]

At least it was balanced by the equally stupid "You critical hit the eyes for no damage"

 

and lost your ammo! DOH!!!

[Promethean]

We keep talking about how the game is gonna have great writing but the only thing of note the leader creative designer has done is Endwar. And its not like NWN 2 and SoZ had amazing dialogue and deep characters like MotB. How can we be sure F:NV will be up to snuff?

 

how can we be sure? we can't, of course. i for one am hoping that Avellone gets involved. but aside from that, look at my signature and ask yourself how hard it would be to improve upon that.

 

Well yeah. But poorly translated PSX JRPGs have better dialogue then Beth games have managed so far.

[TwinkieGorilla]

Well yeah. But poorly translated PSX JRPGs have better dialogue then Beth games have managed so far.

 

You set us up the bomb!

 

[intelligence] So you say all your base are belong to us?

[FabMan_UK]

Hey suggestions:

Don't care for groin or eye shot, seems very unnecessary. Why would being shot in the groin be more painful then being shot in the stomach? If you are shot in the forehead, is it really not that bad compared to being shot in the eye?

 

Motorcycle would be really fun, make it destructible though. Didn't the BoS in Tactics have multiple Vehicles? Also Fallout 2 showed plenty of scrap, I know most would have corroded beyond effective use but surely someone has a running vehicle other than the BoS and the Enclave.

 

Also if this is 200 years after the bombs and people have setup a community, can we not have scraps of paper on the ground and boulders in the middle of the road? The road may not have recently been tar-mac but surely people might move debris away from their footpaths? Do all homes need empty cans and rotten goods lying around?

 

-edit-

 

Can we push Karma to the background, instead of having it pop up after every action?

 

Guns that don't wear down so quickly, but still could require maintenance... cleaning, oiling and when necessary replacing parts. Just not after 20 shots.

Edited April 27, 2009 by FabMan_UK

[Malcador]

I always thought the eyes and groin shots were there as they were parts of the body that might be exposed by armour. Now, it still works against PA, the eyes still make sense, the glass there is weaker than the steel everywhere else, so... Hm. Ok, I'll just have to go with groin being there as the idea of being shot there seems extra painful.

[Kelverin]

Why would being shot in the groin be more painful then being shot in the stomach?

Because you might lose your manhood? I'll choose the stomach wound every time.

[FabMan_UK]

Why would being shot in the groin be more painful then being shot in the stomach?

Because you might lose your manhood? I'll choose the stomach wound every time.

 

Hey, if I HAD to choose, it would be the stomach too. However we are assuming we live afterwards right? Otherwise what does it matter wear you get shot, if it's followed by several others spread over the body? The only decision to factor in when shooting the other person should be how to get them to drop the quickest.

 

Assuming you are in the middle of a gun fight, taking the extra time to aim for a groin seems a bit silly. Shoot them in the stomach, it hurts a lot, easier to hit, potential to hit major organs and/or veins and tears muscles that give body support. Shooting in the groin seems like an extra challenge for less reward.

 

Unless you are sadistic and like doing that to folks, it seems unnecessary to me.

[mkreku]

I just wish they would make the exploding sequences much, much more rare. I mean, after a while you were exploding ogres.. er.. supermutants by the dozen in every fight. For example, in Wasteland you only got those horrific combat descriptions if you hit a 10 hp enemy for 100 hp damage, in other words, when you totally overkilled something. In Fallout 3 you only had to hit anything with a 10mm pistol and they would explode at random.

 

Also, weapons degradation would work better (in my mind) if it only affected reliability, reload times and perhaps firing rate. Having a 50 damage gun dwindle down to 10 damage after 50 shots is a bit.. I don't want to call it unrealistic, but it's annoying and doesn't add to my enjoyment of the game. It only makes me carry around ten extra exactly similar weapons.

[TwinkieGorilla]

Unless you are sadistic and like doing that to folks

 

and what the heck's wrong with that, exactly?

[aries101]

I agree that more than 200 years or so after the Great War in 2077, communities and small societies would have existed. From what I've played of FO3, I haven't seen any people farming or tilling the land, let alone a foundry or someone who makes weapons or deal in trades for a living. It would be nice to have this in Fallout: New Vegas. Someone who actually tills the land and sells the produce they make at the market in the nearest town. Or someone, since it is in Vegas, who grow oranges or whatever they grow around Vegas. Or least tradesmen that deals in different imports and exports of different products, both food, weapons and all the sorts of thing people need when living in a town the size of New Vegas.

 

The roads should maybe not be mended to before post-war state, but a little mending of the roads would't be out of the way - so to speak