Stealth

[mingoran]

I make a point of regularly playing a stealth character and testing levels using stealth. I can honestly say, there are a lot of fun moments creeping around picking off enemies one-by-one.

 

AP stealth is pretty sensible. If you're running around, people will hear you. If you're shooting, people hear you. You'll want to make good use of cover, stay low, and be quiet. Timing is key to the stealth game.

 

Does AI have different modes to deal with stealth players? Say for example relaxed and patrolling normally or taking a break. Alarmed and inspecting it's surroundings looking for clues. Dealing with clues like finding a dead body and going to alert his companions or hit the alarm button. Alarmed, knowing the player is in the area and modifying their routines.

[Oner]

In the E3 trailer, they were randomly running up and down. Sorta.

[SpaceAlex]

If this invisibility cloak has to exist (which I really don't like), you better provide a good explanation for it (The Stealth Boy in F3 was plausible enough). If it's just like there, it will seriously hinder my enjoyment of the game.

 

I don't care that the game's not done completely in accordance to our world laws. I just want a game world that seems plausible... that feels like it could exist somewhere in the universe. If this cloak is just some magical feature that only Mike can use and nobody reacts to or mentions it, I will have a hard time immersing myself into the game world. It's just too obvious to label it as a feature (like rapid shot for example) not worthy of serious mention.

Edited June 11, 2009 by SpaceAlex

[Oblarg]

If this invisibility cloak has to exist (which I really don't like), you better provide a good explanation for it (The Stealth Boy in F3 was plausible enough). If it's just like there, it will seriously hinder my enjoyment of the game.

 

I don't care that the game's not done completely in accordance to our world laws. I just want a game world that seems plausible... that feels like it could exist somewhere in the universe. If this cloak is just some magical feature that only Mike can use and nobody reacts to or mentions it, I will have a hard time immersing myself into the game world. It's just too obvious to label it as a feature (like rapid shot for example) not worthy of serious mention.

 

It's a very short lasting ability which lets him get through a tough spot. I don't see it as gamebreaking at all. It's not like you become invisible for the entire mission.

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

Still incredibly silly.

[Oblarg]

Still incredibly silly.

 

No more silly than being able to freeze time, aim three shots, and unleash them all at once. Or shoot your SMG's without reloading for a period of time. Or slow down time and cause your CQC to become superpowered.

 

Really, it's not a critical gameplay mechanic, and groaning about it is nitpicky.

[SpaceAlex]

No more silly than being able to freeze time, aim three shots, and unleash them all at once. Or shoot your SMG's without reloading for a period of time. Or slow down time and cause your CQC to become superpowered.

 

All of these things I could do without. In fact, I would much prefer if they weren't a part of the game. Can't they come up with some sensible feats like improved aim, more combat moves, quieter steps while sneaking, etc?

 

Still, I guess if I don't want those supernatural feats, I don't have to pick them up, right?

Edited June 12, 2009 by SpaceAlex

[Oner]

No more silly than being able to freeze time, aim three shots, and unleash them all at once. Or shoot your SMG's without reloading for a period of time. Or slow down time and cause your CQC to become superpowered.

 

All of these things I could do without. In fact, I would much prefer if they weren't a part of the game. Can't they come up with some sensible feats like improved aim, more combat moves, quieter steps while sneaking, etc?

 

Still, I guess if I don't want those supernatural feats, I don't have to use them, right?

Fixed the last sentence.

There is at least one improved aim feat for assault rifles, faster target reticule lock-on, and HtH gets new moves, and I guess things like quieter steps are part of the passive skill upgrades.

[Darth Sithari]

My main complaints with these games that allow multiple playstyles are the following:

 

1. Run-n-gunning always ends up being easier. Sure, you can stealth, but usualy a beefed-up macho machinegunner (or plate-mailed knight with a two-handed sword) can kill any enemy and make it through any level with 1/3 of the effort. I'd like it if there were actual circumstances that favored stealth over going Rambo. Like a level that gets harder the more you fight, or enemies that are easier to kill from behind than full-frontal assault. Or a mission that requires you to lockpick or computer hack in order to reach the end. I want my ninja to have situations where he has a much better chance of surviving than the walking tank.

 

2. Telepathic enemies and high demand for perfection. I can't tell you how many times it bugs me in a game to be sneaking around, be spotted by one guy, and next thing I'm fighting every damn enemy in the level. If I get caught by a lone guard in the basement, I shouldn't be getting into a fight with the guys who were three freaking floors upstairs when I was spotted! (I'm looking at you, Oblivion!!) If my Michael comes across one guard, only those enemies within a reasonable distance (those who could actualy see or hear the fighting) should come investigating. Requiring players to be 100% flawless in their gameplay is a pain in the ass.

[Matthew Rorie]

My main complaints with these games that allow multiple playstyles are the following:

 

1. Run-n-gunning always ends up being easier. Sure, you can stealth, but usualy a beefed-up macho machinegunner (or plate-mailed knight with a two-handed sword) can kill any enemy and make it through any level with 1/3 of the effort. I'd like it if there were actual circumstances that favored stealth over going Rambo. Like a level that gets harder the more you fight, or enemies that are easier to kill from behind than full-frontal assault. Or a mission that requires you to lockpick or computer hack in order to reach the end. I want my ninja to have situations where he has a much better chance of surviving than the walking tank.

 

Well, every enemy is easier to take down from behind than with an assault. Assuming you can get close to them without having them see you, you can perform a takedown and they die. An enemy, especially those with a lot of armor, are going to take a few bullets to the body to take out, but a knife to the throat is an instant kill on any non-boss enemy.

 

I think, in general, a good stealthy player that manages to use his skills well is generally going to have a better chance of surviving overall than a run-n-gunner. Not being seen means not being shot, for the most part. The commando route will lead to taking a lot of damage and getting grenades thrown at you and such, which the commando will be better equipped to deal with, but which can still be deadly. If you focus on stealth, you will die more quickly in a firefight (as you're probably wearing quieter but less protective armor), but you should be able to avoid firefights more often than not.

 

The drawback here is that a stealth playthrough is probably a bit slower than a guns-blazing playthrough, because you're going to be watching enemy patrol routes to sneak past them and moving more slowly in stealth mode overall. But if you want to be a ninja, you have to expect a tradeoff or two.

 

2. Telepathic enemies and high demand for perfection. I can't tell you how many times it bugs me in a game to be sneaking around, be spotted by one guy, and next thing I'm fighting every damn enemy in the level. If I get caught by a lone guard in the basement, I shouldn't be getting into a fight with the guys who were three freaking floors upstairs when I was spotted! (I'm looking at you, Oblivion!!) If my Michael comes across one guard, only those enemies within a reasonable distance (those who could actualy see or hear the fighting) should come investigating. Requiring players to be 100% flawless in their gameplay is a pain in the ass.

 

We have a few systems that prevent all the enemies in a level from reacting when a single enemy is alerted to your presence, and our passive/activated abilities and gadgets are going to let you correct some of the mistakes that might be made while you're sneaking around. In general, a stealth playthrough is going to require a bit more care than a guns-blazing approach, but we're trying not to make it punishing to the point of not being fun. We also want to allow the player to make a few mistakes along the way without having to do that "oh well, might as well reload at this point" thing.

 

So you get things like Evasion, which makes Mike temporarily undetectable to enemies when he wanders into one of their view ranges (allowing him to quickly get behind cover before they react to him), or the Radio Mimic gadget, which lets you modulate Mike's voice and call in a false alarm signal, thus canceling an alarm that you trip. (Both of these are on cooldowns, so they are not going to let you constantly correct for sloppy play.) So we're trying to ensure that playing stealthy is an appropriate challenge, but not something that is overly punishing. The end goal is, after all, a fun game.

[Humodour]

My main complaints with these games that allow multiple playstyles are the following:

 

1. Run-n-gunning always ends up being easier. Sure, you can stealth, but usualy a beefed-up macho machinegunner (or plate-mailed knight with a two-handed sword) can kill any enemy and make it through any level with 1/3 of the effort. I'd like it if there were actual circumstances that favored stealth over going Rambo. Like a level that gets harder the more you fight, or enemies that are easier to kill from behind than full-frontal assault. Or a mission that requires you to lockpick or computer hack in order to reach the end. I want my ninja to have situations where he has a much better chance of surviving than the walking tank.

 

Well, every enemy is easier to take down from behind than with an assault. Assuming you can get close to them without having them see you, you can perform a takedown and they die. An enemy, especially those with a lot of armor, are going to take a few bullets to the body to take out, but a knife to the throat is an instant kill on any non-boss enemy.

 

I think, in general, a good stealthy player that manages to use his skills well is generally going to have a better chance of surviving overall than a run-n-gunner. Not being seen means not being shot, for the most part. The commando route will lead to taking a lot of damage and getting grenades thrown at you and such, which the commando will be better equipped to deal with, but which can still be deadly. If you focus on stealth, you will die more quickly in a firefight (as you're probably wearing quieter but less protective armor), but you should be able to avoid firefights more often than not.

 

The drawback here is that a stealth playthrough is probably a bit slower than a guns-blazing playthrough, because you're going to be watching enemy patrol routes to sneak past them and moving more slowly in stealth mode overall. But if you want to be a ninja, you have to expect a tradeoff or two.

 

2. Telepathic enemies and high demand for perfection. I can't tell you how many times it bugs me in a game to be sneaking around, be spotted by one guy, and next thing I'm fighting every damn enemy in the level. If I get caught by a lone guard in the basement, I shouldn't be getting into a fight with the guys who were three freaking floors upstairs when I was spotted! (I'm looking at you, Oblivion!!) If my Michael comes across one guard, only those enemies within a reasonable distance (those who could actualy see or hear the fighting) should come investigating. Requiring players to be 100% flawless in their gameplay is a pain in the ass.

 

We have a few systems that prevent all the enemies in a level from reacting when a single enemy is alerted to your presence, and our passive/activated abilities and gadgets are going to let you correct some of the mistakes that might be made while you're sneaking around. In general, a stealth playthrough is going to require a bit more care than a guns-blazing approach, but we're trying not to make it punishing to the point of not being fun. We also want to allow the player to make a few mistakes along the way without having to do that "oh well, might as well reload at this point" thing.

 

So you get things like Evasion, which makes Mike temporarily undetectable to enemies when he wanders into one of their view ranges (allowing him to quickly get behind cover before they react to him), or the Radio Mimic gadget, which lets you modulate Mike's voice and call in a false alarm signal, thus canceling an alarm that you trip. (Both of these are on cooldowns, so they are not going to let you constantly correct for sloppy play.) So we're trying to ensure that playing stealthy is an appropriate challenge, but not something that is overly punishing. The end goal is, after all, a fun game.

 

Sounds cool.

[Pidesco]

Question:

 

Will there be cameras to avoid and disable? And a surveillance room with a couple of AIs watching the camera feeds?

[Darth Sithari]

Question:

 

Will there be cameras to avoid and disable? And a surveillance room with a couple of AIs watching the camera feeds?

 

There was a scene of Michael crawling underneath a camera and disabling a security computer in the trailers.

[Oner]

They even have a sexy green FoV.