funcroc Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 (edited) http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=210065 I heard Jordan Thomas, Creative Director on Bioshock 2 at 2K Marin, worked as lead designer on Thief: Deadly Shadow and designed Fort Frolic area on Bioshock 1. Zak McClendon, Lead Designer on Bioshock 2, worked on systems / level designer on Project: Snowblind at Crystal Dynamics. Edited March 9, 2009 by funcroc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaftan Barlast Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 I hope theyve made combat feel less clunky this time around. Just because your shotgun is steam-driven, it doesnt mean it has too feel like it is. DISCLAIMER: Do not take what I write seriously unless it is clearly and in no uncertain terms, declared by me to be meant in a serious and non-humoristic manner. If there is no clear indication, asume the post is written in jest. This notification is meant very seriously and its purpouse is to avoid misunderstandings and the consequences thereof. Furthermore; I can not be held accountable for anything I write on these forums since the idea of taking serious responsability for my unserious actions, is an oxymoron in itself. Important: as the following sentence contains many naughty words I warn you not to read it under any circumstances; botty, knickers, wee, erogenous zone, psychiatrist, clitoris, stockings, bosom, poetry reading, dentist, fellatio and the department of agriculture. "I suppose outright stupidity and complete lack of taste could also be considered points of view. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meshugger Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 How about giving the player a more sincere feeling of danger? Respawning in every damn corner sure ruined the suspension for me. And oh, a story that doesn't start to drag halfway through. "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaftan Barlast Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 It never bothered me, but to both have a proper save/load system AND respawn points is a bit redundant, yes. To sum it up; Bioschock was an average game is a very, very pretty packaging. DISCLAIMER: Do not take what I write seriously unless it is clearly and in no uncertain terms, declared by me to be meant in a serious and non-humoristic manner. If there is no clear indication, asume the post is written in jest. This notification is meant very seriously and its purpouse is to avoid misunderstandings and the consequences thereof. Furthermore; I can not be held accountable for anything I write on these forums since the idea of taking serious responsability for my unserious actions, is an oxymoron in itself. Important: as the following sentence contains many naughty words I warn you not to read it under any circumstances; botty, knickers, wee, erogenous zone, psychiatrist, clitoris, stockings, bosom, poetry reading, dentist, fellatio and the department of agriculture. "I suppose outright stupidity and complete lack of taste could also be considered points of view. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Yeah, one of these days I'll have to give the first one a try again, to see if I can get past the 3-hour mark before the "Not Fun"-ness of infinitely respawning splicers overwhelms my interest in the art direction and the setting. When I realized that the game was predominantly making me irritated and stressed, rather than inspiring the intended enjoyment, entertainment, and intellectual satisfaction, I put it on the shelf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowtrain Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 DO the Big Dadday's really need to come back? They weren't that interesting to begin with. And what interest they had faded quickly as they repeated the exact same behaviors over and over again for every freaking level. That they are using BD as a selling point is a bad sign. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgoth Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Totally not looking forward to it. But maybe that's just my stomach flu that influences my judgement. Rain makes everything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowtrain Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 (edited) Totally not looking forward to it. Well, I'm not ready to say that yet. If the developers take Bioshock 2 further than they took the first one. Try to make it actually interesting and fun, then it could be good. Eliminating those res tubes and bring the Fps combat up to par with opther fps games would be a good start all be itself. I thyink they need to choose a gameplay direction and then go hard in that direction. Is it an FPS, survival horror, adventure, crpg? They need to choose what they want to emphasize. If they want to contine in ther FPs mode then they need to be better weapon design, better enemies, more varied enemies, better enemy AI, and smoother combat. If they choose to push survival horror, then they combat doesn't need to be improved so much as the resource management and fear factor. They need to to focus on what elements they wnt to push. Edited March 9, 2009 by CrashGirl Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WILL THE ALMIGHTY Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Cannot wait for it. I absolutly loved the first, mostly because I never got into the hype. The respawning thing was ****, though. "Alright, I've been thinking. When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade - make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons, what am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life's manager. Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons. Do you know who I am? I'm the man who's gonna burn your house down! With the lemons. I'm going to to get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowtrain Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Cannot wait for it. I absolutly loved the first, mostly because I never got into the hype. The respawning thing was ****, though. I enjoyed the first 2 levels. After that though it just began to feel terribly repetitive and uninspired. I eventually stopped in the fourth or fifth level and never went back. I think the potential for a fun game was there if nothing else. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowtrain Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 I heard Jordan Thomas, Creative Director on Bioshock 2 at 2K Marin, worked as lead designer on Thief: Deadly Shadow and designed Fort Frolic area on Bioshock 1. mmm. Wasn't Fort Frolic the level on which you had to push the buttom to blow the smoke to stop the bees then run around and collect the honey and get out beofre the smoke disappeared, fight the spawing splicers at the control, then wash, rinse and repeat the exact same steps until you had colelcted enough honey to proceed? If so, color me unimpressed. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crakkie Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 It got dull after a couple of hours, but I turned off the respawn points and it got fun again. Then towards the end, with the super leatherhead splicers, it got less fun again. I stood in front of one with both of us firing tommy guns into each other's faces. I emptied an entire clip of anti-personnel rounds into his head before he died. Another one took 10 grenades to kill. It just became an issue of headshotting with the crossbow (which was as overpowered as the crossbow in HL1, but with ammo for it everywhere). Oh Jimmy, you were so funny. Don't let me down. From habit he lifts his watch; it shows him its blank face. Zero hour, Snowman thinks. Time to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funcroc Posted March 9, 2009 Author Share Posted March 9, 2009 (edited) mmm. Wasn't Fort Frolic the level on which you had to push the buttom to blow the smoke to stop the bees then run around and collect the honey and get out beofre the smoke disappeared, fight the spawing splicers at the control, then wash, rinse and repeat the exact same steps until you had colelcted enough honey to proceed? I think that's Arcadia - Farmer's Market level. Fort Frolic is where you meet Sander Cohen. Jordan Thomas designed Shalebridge Cradle level in Thief 3. Edited March 9, 2009 by funcroc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purkake Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 (edited) Totally not looking forward to it. Neither am I. Bioshock was good for looking at awesome Art Deco stuff and some of the broken down utopia. The story was pretty simple and a bunch of it was just lifted from System Shock 2 which I find unforgivable. The combat was simple, repetitive and got boring really fast. There were like 3 different types of enemies which respawned and made Bioshock loose the last of it's scarey factor. As much as I despise Ken Levine for making Bioshock a System Shock 2 lite, I don't see the remaining team improving on the already bad story that pretty much ended when Bioshock ended. I am open to the idea that the game part will be better, though. While the PC Gamer magazine isn't all that great, their podcast is probably the best PC gaming related podcast out there at the moment. EDIT: On a somewhat related note, I was on 2K's Bioshock forum when it was being released. The hype was overwhelming, Bioshock was going to be the second coming and even after an early review from a Finnish magazine called it a "glorified corridor shooter" everyone was convinced that Bioshock will lead human kind to a new era of peace and prosperity. When the game came out, the forum turned into a horrible cesspit of DRM hate, broken dreams and denial. I felt really bad for Elizabeth, the community manager. No more hype for me. Edited March 9, 2009 by Purkake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maria Caliban Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 (edited) DO the Big Dadday's really need to come back? They weren't that interesting to begin with. And what interest they had faded quickly as they repeated the exact same behaviors over and over again for every freaking level. That they are using BD as a selling point is a bad sign. The problem with making 'iconic' characters is that you're oblidged to put money and effort into them long after they should be put out to pasture. See: Wolverine. Edited March 9, 2009 by Maria Caliban "When is this out. I can't wait to play it so I can talk at length about how bad it is." - Gorgon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowtrain Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 DO the Big Dadday's really need to come back? They weren't that interesting to begin with. And what interest they had faded quickly as they repeated the exact same behaviors over and over again for every freaking level. That they are using BD as a selling point is a bad sign. The problem with making 'iconic' characters is that you're oblidged to put money and effort into them long after they should be put out to pasture. See: Wolverine. Well, here's hoping they spruce the Big Daddys up a bit. Give them some different behavior routines. Make Big Daddy factions. Maybe have Big Daddys that will join with the player or vice versa. A world filled with Big Daddys! Imagine that. There's nothing inherently wrong with Big Daddy's. They are just too one-dimensional to be, as you succintly put it, iconic characters. Really, if all Bioshock 2 does is regurgitate all the stuff from Bioshock 1, it's not going to be very interesting. Hopefully, Levine's next project will be a return to form for him. Whatever that project turns out to be. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WILL THE ALMIGHTY Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 As long as they include more sorts of Big Daddies, I don't see the problem. Kotaku seems to be pretty sure there'll be Big Sisters as well. "Alright, I've been thinking. When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade - make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons, what am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life's manager. Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons. Do you know who I am? I'm the man who's gonna burn your house down! With the lemons. I'm going to to get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowtrain Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 As long as they include more sorts of Big Daddies, I don't see the problem. Kotaku seems to be pretty sure there'll be Big Sisters as well. Well, I think it depends a little on how much of a difference there is between "sorts". If it is just a change of attack mode, then meh, I can't really see it as interesting. What would make the Big Daddys intersting is giving them personalities. Do they like their role as protectors? Do they wish they could take a vacation? Are there rebel Big Daddys who have gone to the corner store for cigs and never returned. Bioshock did nothing with them except for that one basic routine. And it was sorta interesting the first time I saw it. It was not interesting at all when I saw it the 50th time. And of course, from a combat point of view, any threat factor was removed because I had infinite free rez. WHio cares how tough they are. I would just blast them at point blank range til they killed me, get rezzed, run right back, attack again, get killed again, wash rinse repeat until the Big Daddy was toast. How the heck is that fun or interesting? They should at least have given the Big Daddies fairly fast health regen. COmbat would have been much tougher and interesting. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maria Caliban Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 As long as they include more sorts of Big Daddies, I don't see the problem. Kotaku seems to be pretty sure there'll be Big Sisters as well. There were Big Mothers in BioShock. Rosie the Riveters. "When is this out. I can't wait to play it so I can talk at length about how bad it is." - Gorgon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowtrain Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 (edited) As long as they include more sorts of Big Daddies, I don't see the problem. Kotaku seems to be pretty sure there'll be Big Sisters as well. There were Big Mothers in BioShock. Rosie the Riveters. I always thought of Rosie as a male. Sure, its a funny name for a guy, but are you going to tell him that? What were the opther Big Daddy variations called? I can't remember. I think there were four variations. Two base types, each with a high end and low end version. Edited March 10, 2009 by CrashGirl Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WILL THE ALMIGHTY Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Pretty sure the Rosies were male. It was just a name for them, and they were always called "Mr. Bubbles". There were four versions, bouncers and rosies, each with their higher end form. I prefered the bouncers, since their drill and charge attacks were a lot more fun to fight than the Rosie, who simply had lots of armor and a gun. "Alright, I've been thinking. When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade - make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons, what am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life's manager. Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons. Do you know who I am? I'm the man who's gonna burn your house down! With the lemons. I'm going to to get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 The Big Daddies were sexless, their particulars burned off in the process of becoming a Big Daddy. Join me, and we shall make Production Beards a reality! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowtrain Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 The Big Daddies were sexless, their particulars burned off in the process of becoming a Big Daddy. But they felt male, dang it. They just did! Maybe because they were called Big Daddys and not Big Mommas. The latter would have some interesting connotations, of course. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure79 Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 I liked Bioshock. The atmosphere and how the story unfolded were great. I just turned off the respawn pods and that took care of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purkake Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 I liked Bioshock. The atmosphere and how the story unfolded were great. I just turned off the respawn pods and that took care of that. But do you feel that they could make a worthy sequel without just regurgitating the first one? It feels like they are stuck with the broken utopia, big daddies and plasmids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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