Chris Taylor leading the Fallout MMO project

[TheHarlequin]

Its a MMO, a game built for the masses. By their very nature MMOs are dumbed down representatives of the gaming genre. Besides, at least onthe XBox 360, you do have a keyboard available. Hooks right onto the controller itself.

 

I think that's a VERY narrow view and a very wide brush you are panting with. Yes some MMO's are dumbed down just as many SP games are. The only reason they are dumbed down is because some devs are afraid of making them too 'complex' will scare away potential players. As if we are all idiots, prime example is age of conan... wonderful potential but the stat system was clearly designed to be used by 12 yr olds. OTOH look at EVE online, shows you can make a MMO that requires brain power and be successful. I think the same will be required of WoDO in fact.

[Stephen Amber]

The Fallout IP is a pretty good candidiate for a MMORPG though.

 

Massively populated wasteland being the oxymoron it is, I think it's a poor candidate. Being isolated on a blighted landscape as the lone vault dweller is a big part of what made fallout tick. Just you and dogmeat... Throw in several thousand more vault dwellers and it's not quite the same. What are you all going to team up and kill giant robot tanks like in tactics or something? Retarded.

 

Especially in light of the recent success of FO3. A lot of people know the name Fallout now who didn't before.

 

Unable to make F3 themselves, I figured they'd hunker down and wait til the right moment to exploit Bethesda's success.

[Gorth]

Massively populated wasteland being the oxymoron it is, I think it's a poor candidate. Being isolated on a blighted landscape as the lone vault dweller is a big part of what made fallout tick. Just you and dogmeat... Throw in several thousand more vault dwellers and it's not quite the same. What are you all going to team up and kill giant robot tanks like in tactics or something? Retarded.

You are going to join the uncountable legions of the BOS and fight the endless hordes of Super Mutants of course

[Slowtrain]

The Fallout IP is a pretty good candidiate for a MMORPG though.

 

Massively populated wasteland being the oxymoron it is, I think it's a poor candidate. Being isolated on a blighted landscape as the lone vault dweller is a big part of what made fallout tick. Just you and dogmeat... Throw in several thousand more vault dwellers and it's not quite the same. What are you all going to team up and kill giant robot tanks like in tactics or something? Retarded.

 

 

If the game requires everyone to0 play a vault dweller, then that would be pretty limited. I agree.

 

I would assume though though that they would follow on WoW's success and allow gamers to play different races and classes. SUpermutants, ghouls, raiders, brotherhood of steel and so forth. Split gamers up across multiple servers to keep the density as low as is neccessary, and I don't see a peroblem.

[kirottu]

Dumbing down the game so you can play with a joystick and 5 buttons would do far more harm then good.

 

Haha! Oh yes! The always good "moar buttons means smartar gameplay" argument.

[Hell Kitty]

They also tire out your thumbs in a way a joystick doesn't.

 

Sure, if you're over 80.

 

Haha! Oh yes! The always good "moar buttons means smartar gameplay" argument.

 

I remember the first time I picked up and aimed a gun in Trespasser. I felt like the SMARTEST MAN IN THE COSMOS. Compared to that game everything is dumbed down bull****.

[CoM_Solaufein]

Massively populated wasteland being the oxymoron it is, I think it's a poor candidate. Being isolated on a blighted landscape as the lone vault dweller is a big part of what made fallout tick. Just you and dogmeat... Throw in several thousand more vault dwellers and it's not quite the same. What are you all going to team up and kill giant robot tanks like in tactics or something? Retarded.

You are going to join the uncountable legions of the BOS and fight the endless hordes of Super Mutants of course

Endless hordes of random encounters.

[Slowtrain]

Massively populated wasteland being the oxymoron it is, I think it's a poor candidate. Being isolated on a blighted landscape as the lone vault dweller is a big part of what made fallout tick. Just you and dogmeat... Throw in several thousand more vault dwellers and it's not quite the same. What are you all going to team up and kill giant robot tanks like in tactics or something? Retarded.

You are going to join the uncountable legions of the BOS and fight the endless hordes of Super Mutants of course

Endless hordes of random encounters.

 

 

I don't think that a Fallout MMORPG is going to attempt to recreate the single player experience of the first 3 Fallouts.

 

More likely, it is going to open up the Fallout gameworld by allowing players to assume many of the different races and professions seen in the single player games.

 

I thknk it would be pretty cool to play as a supermutant.

[Slowtrain]

Dumbing down the game so you can play with a joystick and 5 buttons would do far more harm then good.

 

Haha! Oh yes! The always good "moar buttons means smartar gameplay" argument.

 

 

Well, more buttons doesn't mean a BETTER game certainly. But it might often mean one that has more options and therefore more interesting gameplay.

[Hurlshort]

MMO's aren't really crowded. There are overpopulated areas, just like in real life, but most of the time you are lucky if there more than a few other people on a zone with you. It will feel exactly like a wasteland, particularly if they make it a sizable game world.

 

And honestly I've always thought the vaults in these games were underpopulated. It's not realistic to build something as massive as a vault for two dozen people. I just chalked it up to a design decision not to waste resources populating the vault with hundreds of filler NPC's.

[Slowtrain]

MMO's aren't really crowded. There are overpopulated areas, just like in real life, but most of the time you are lucky if there more than a few other people on a zone with you. It will feel exactly like a wasteland, particularly if they make it a sizable game world.

 

And honestly I've always thought the vaults in these games were underpopulated. It's not realistic to build something as massive as a vault for two dozen people. I just chalked it up to a design decision not to waste resources populating the vault with hundreds of filler NPC's.

 

 

I agree. Its funny how games like Fallout and Elder Scrolls always seem so small and underpopulated. When NPCS refer to a "town" that has 2 houses and 2 people for example.

 

Even the Imperial City in Oblivion seems rather small and sparse for such a supposedly grand location.

 

 

The only city in a crpg that I can think of at the moment that really felt like a crowded populated city, was Baldurs Gate in the first BG game.

[kirottu]

Dumbing down the game so you can play with a joystick and 5 buttons would do far more harm then good.

 

Haha! Oh yes! The always good "moar buttons means smartar gameplay" argument.

 

 

Well, more buttons doesn't mean a BETTER game certainly. But it might often mean one that has more options and therefore more interesting gameplay.

 

Most of the rpgs I have played have "attack" and "action" buttons and "action" button either opens a drop down box or lets you scroll through possible actions. Usually there

[Slowtrain]

, but, really, if anyone thinks pc gaming is better than console gaming, because keyboard have more buttons than console control pad then he is just a shameless pc fanboi.

 

 

No argument there. I can't believe too many people would seriously make that argument though, outside of trolling purposes.

[Llyranor]

It's too bad Gabrielle isn't able to defend herself anymore

[TheHarlequin]

Dumbing down the game so you can play with a joystick and 5 buttons would do far more harm then good.

 

Haha! Oh yes! The always good "moar buttons means smartar gameplay" argument.

 

 

Well, more buttons doesn't mean a BETTER game certainly. But it might often mean one that has more options and therefore more interesting gameplay.

 

Someone who gets it... wonders will never cease apparently.

[Slowtrain]

Someone who gets it... wonders will never cease apparently.

 

 

I pretty much cut my gaming teeth on flight sims, starting with Falcon 3.0. Most of them pretty much used all 128 keys plus some that were mapped to shift and/or alt as well. In that sense, I just look at a console and laugh.

 

But to be fair, very few pc games (other than flight sims) ever really make use of more than a handful of keys anyway.

 

The mouse is much more important than the keyboard to most pc games.

[Hurlshort]

The real obstacle for MMO's on the console is the communication between players. A keyboard makes it pretty easy to send messages back and forth. But mic's are getting better and better, so that issue might fall by the wayside down the road.

[Hell Kitty]

Well, more buttons doesn't mean a BETTER game certainly. But it might often mean one that has more options and therefore more interesting gameplay.

 

Games like Mass Effect on PC use more keys than the console version, but don't actually offer more options.

 

On a PC version of a game you'll be able to press a separate key to immediately access things like character, inventory or map screens, while in the console version you'll need to first access a menu screen and then choose those other screens from a list. On a console version a single analogue stick can be used to control movement, both speed and direction, while in the PC version you have four different keys and one or two speed modifiers. TheHarlequin claims that "Dumbing down the game so you can play with a joystick and 5 buttons would do far more harm then good" but in neither case does the fact the PC has more buttons lead to greater options. Nothing has been dumbed down.

 

Apart from flights sims which have already been mentioned, what games need a lot of buttons, as opposed to using more buttons as a shortcut?

Edited March 10, 2009 by Hell Kitty

[Tigranes]

Games which rely on selecting multiple units or using drag boxes (i.e. RTS); games which have a large amount of text (due to TV resolutions); games which benefit from interfaces where you can quickly cycle through a wide variety of options (e.g. use your mouse cursor rather than hold DOWN a lot - see KOTOR inventory piece of crap); games which have a lot of options and thus benefit from having a lot of hotkeys, etc.

 

While it's not a general rule, the keyboard/mouse will always have the advantage of offering more functionality. Denying that (not saying you are, HK) would be like denying the fact that China is bigger than Jamaica.

[J.E. Sawyer]

Well, more buttons doesn't mean a BETTER game certainly. But it might often mean one that has more options and therefore more interesting gameplay.

That assumes that more options always = more interesting gameplay, which I think is highly questionable.

[Bos_hybrid]

That assumes that more options always = more interesting gameplay, which I think is highly questionable.

 

Finally someone gets it, so glad its a dev.

 

Less options more developed = good

 

More option less developed = bad

[Hell Kitty]

Games which rely on selecting multiple units or using drag boxes (i.e. RTS); games which have a large amount of text (due to TV resolutions); games which benefit from interfaces where you can quickly cycle through a wide variety of options (e.g. use your mouse cursor rather than hold DOWN a lot - see KOTOR inventory piece of crap); games which have a lot of options and thus benefit from having a lot of hotkeys, etc.

 

I'm not arguing that a mouse isn't faster than a controller, nor am I arguing that a game couldn't potentially map unique functions to each individual key on the keyboard, I'm asking for actual examples of games which would be impossible to replicate on console without removing gameplay functions because they require x amount of keys. None of your examples show this, they only show that the combo of keyboard and mouse can be faster than a controller. I don't even know what you're getting at with the bit about text and inventory. How is scrolling down a list or page of text with an analogue stick different than dragging a scroll bar with a mouse? How is using shoulder buttons to cycles through tabs different to clicking those tabs with the mouse button?

 

While it's not a general rule, the keyboard/mouse will always have the advantage of offering more functionality.

 

I already gave the example of movement in a game like Mass Effect and the differences between PC and console. In such a game, the PC needs to use more keys because there is no single key that offers the functionality that a single analogue stick can. In this example, the PC version uses more keys than the console version, but this doesn't open up any more options, it offers no greater level of functionality.

 

Less options more developed = good

 

More option less developed = bad

 

There is actually someone on the DX3 forums who asked that there be more "stuff" in the hud, because it gives the impression of a more complex game. They weren't even asking for complexity, just the illusion of it!

 

I really don't get the idea that more stuff = more complex = better. In Trespasser, I have to do more "stuff" just to pick up an item. Rather than using a single key to pick up something off the ground, I have to use a key to hold out my hand, another one to rotate my wrist... it's more complex but it's also completely and utterly stupid.

Edited March 10, 2009 by Hell Kitty

[kirottu]

I really don't get the idea that more stuff = more complex = better.

 

Other than Crashgirl

Edited March 10, 2009 by kirottu

[Stephen Amber]

You are going to join the uncountable legions of the BOS and fight the endless hordes of Super Mutants of course

 

It could well be a Dark Age of Camelot sort of model with the Brotherhood of Steel being the knights, while the mutants are like viking raiders or something. Though I'd prefer it if the supermutants weren't playable... They start out strong to begin with and don't fit in well with a level gaining scheme.

 

 

I thknk it would be pretty cool to play as a supermutant.

 

Ahh yes the female supermutants with metallic breast cups, bad hairdos, and beeaotch slapping power fists. What a sight.

 

MMO's aren't really crowded. There are overpopulated areas, just like in real life, but most of the time you are lucky if there more than a few other people on a zone with you. It will feel exactly like a wasteland, particularly if they make it a sizable game world.

 

Pretty much every time I've watched my buddy play WoW other characters have been crawling around like ants, but maybe I just checked at the wrong time.

[Hurlshort]

MMO's aren't really crowded. There are overpopulated areas, just like in real life, but most of the time you are lucky if there more than a few other people on a zone with you. It will feel exactly like a wasteland, particularly if they make it a sizable game world.

 

Pretty much every time I've watched my buddy play WoW other characters have been crawling around like ants, but maybe I just checked at the wrong time.

 

WoW is actually one of the smaller MMO's when it comes to square footage. But even with that, the only places I notice crowding are main cities. It's also a trickle effect, when the game is first released you are going to have extremely crowded low level zones. It takes a couple weeks for the level range to spread out. Then whenever new content is released you have a population explosion there.

 

It's actually fairly realistic. It's a great small scale model of economic booms like the Gold Rush of 1849.