FEBRUARY 28, 2005 - NEVER FORGET

[steelfiredragon]

Ne'er forget, Ne'er remember

Ne'er go there

Ne'er say ne'er

 

 

 

oh look its black knight, the fiercest thing for yards around!!!!!!

[Meshugger]

Request: An awesome sig that would make Llyranor cry.

 

Bloodlines was awesome, albeit very buggy at first. Many memory-leaks as well. I never cared about the rest of their games.

Edited March 2, 2009 by Meshugger

[Slowtrain]

They're failures.

 

 

Passionate and yet misguided.

[Killian Kalthorne]

They're failures.

 

 

Passionate and yet misguided.

 

If they were a successful game company then they would have lasted longer than three games. And yes, I consider Obsidian still a starter company with only two games under their boot. Once a game company gets as many games as Bioware released, prior being sold to EA, then I will call game company successful.

[Llyranor]

Never forget.

[Morgoth]

I wanna see Volly forming and running a company, and then see how fast that one becomes a failure.

 

R00fles!

[Slowtrain]

If they were a successful game company then they would have lasted longer than three games. And yes, I consider Obsidian still a starter company with only two games under their boot. Once a game company gets as many games as Bioware released, prior being sold to EA, then I will call game company successful.

 

 

How long though does a game company have to last to be considered a success? How many games need to be released?

 

I'm sure Troika wanted to stay in business longer and release more games; so does every company.

 

I think to label companies that go under as failures is pretty hash and dismissive of all the effort that goes into running one's own business.

 

 

If Obsidian goes out of business now, with ALiens being cancelled and Alpha Protocol unreleased, is Obsidian a failure?

 

If AP is released, but Obsidian still goes out fo business, are they a failure then?

[ramza]

Hmmm, who cares about Troika? I didn't like their games anyway...

[Hurlshort]

I think there is a big difference between being bought out and shutting down. I'm sure the pocketbooks of the people running the companies would agree. Microprose succeeded, got bought, then went to crud. Sir-Tech actually had a long run. The interviews I read at the time made it seem like the owners were just ready to move on. The market was changing and they didn't want to sell the company off, so they shut down. I would consider them a lot more successful than Troika.

 

I don't know anything about Looking Glass.

[Volourn]

"I wanna see Volly forming and running a company, and then see how fast that one becomes a failure."

 

Whether a company of mine succeeds or not would not change the fcat that Troika failed. Sorry, but your smoke and mirror trick doesn't work in your lame attempt to prop Troika up by trying to state my fictional never gonna happen company would fail.

 

 

 

"How long though does a game company have to last to be considered a success? How many games need to be released?

 

I'm sure Troika wanted to stay in business longer and release more games; so does every company.

 

I think to label companies that go under as failures is pretty hash and dismissive of all the effort that goes into running one's own business."

 

How hard one works doesn't change the fact some companies succeed, and most fail. Business world including gaming is tough. Only the strong survive, and prosper.

 

Troika fialed because they failed to deliver products enough people wanted to play, and keep them in business. They failed because depsite the fact Troika wnated to remain open they couldn't attract enough business to stay afloat. They shut down because they couldn't afford to stay in business. It doesn't matter if a handful of people (including myself) enjoyed their games. We are irrelevant. No matter how egtistical Troika fans are, and how much they think only their opinion matters on whether or not Troika failed or not; bottom line is Troika failed.

Edited March 2, 2009 by Volourn

[Hurlshort]

This really is just a glass half empty, half full conversation. Troika succeeded in releasing three games. That is three full development cycles that came to fruition. That's not bad. But they definitely didn't choose to close down the doors, so that is a failure.

[Volourn]

Nope. They failed. Seriously. How can this even be argued. It's like saying a convience store that was open for 2 year; but had to shut down due to a lack of customers and funding was a success simply because it lasted 2 years. LAME

 

BTW, You cna still have some successes, and still be a failure.

[Hurlshort]

Nope. They failed. Seriously. How can this even be argued. It's like saying a convience store that was open for 2 year; but had to shut down due to a lack of customers and funding was a success simply because it lasted 2 years. LAME

 

BTW, You cna still have some successes, and still be a failure.

 

Um, yeah, that's what I just said. Seriously, do you even recognize when someone is agreeing with you, or do you just try and argue with everyone?

 

Now Troika managed to survive for 7 years. That is, as you just said, some success. But again, as you and I have both been saying, they ultimately failed. Nobody has come in here and called Troika a huge success story, they are just trying to celebrate the few small successes they had in their brief time. I'm not sure why you are so gung-ho to piss on that parade.

[Nightshape]

Because he's Volo and that's what he does.

 

Kudos to Trokia!

[Volourn]

But, their 3 games weren't successes. They were all heavily criticized, they didn't make much profit if any at all, and didn't have any positive long last lasting effect on the industry. What people don't get, just because they (we) personally liked Troika's games or even Troika themselves doesn't make them successes in any way.

 

ie. Just because someone liked that small corner store, and went there all the time during the two years said store was open and they enjoyed the prices, the atmosphere, the service, the owners, etc. does NOT mean that store was a success.

 

And, don't pretend to 'agree' with me when you actually don't as you continue to give 'they were failures but' excuses.

 

It's not complex. Troika failed. They are a failed company. It's why they don't exist anymore. It's why NOBODY wanted to do business with them anymore, and they had to close up. And, nobody did because the games they did release basiclaly failed. If TOEE, ARC, and BL had succeeded; publishers would have had no problem giving Troika more work.

 

Again, it doesn't matter if I personally enjoyed ARC, and BL. My opinion on their games is IRRELEVANT when it comes to Troika's success or failure. Then again, I'm so egotistical, and selfish and 'mememe' like most people who think everything revolves around them.

[Hurlshort]

Where are you going with this Volo? You already stated:

 

"You cna still have some successes, and still be a failure."

 

Some folks are choosing to look at those successes, and you seem to have a big problem with that. Why?

 

From a business standpoint, Troika managed to pay salaries and secure enough funding to last 7 years and release 3 full products. That is "some success" as you stated. Why are you so down on them?

[Morgoth]

In Vollys world, only EA is a success - the rest is a total failure, including Bioware.

[Volourn]

"From a business standpoint, Troika managed to pay salaries and secure enough funding to last 7 years and release 3 full products. That is "some success" as you stated. Why are you so down on them?"

 

This shoudl be obvious. Did Troika want to close like some companies who sold themselves for profit or were they forced to close because they couldn't make money?

 

Great. Troika paid their employees for 7 years. They closed down because they couldn't pay those same employees because failing.

 

Unlike, say, BIO's owners who sold their company because they had atcual people who felt BIO had actual value. Troika couldn't even convince one publisher - not a one - to pony up cash for a game despite Troika's owners history in the industry. Their games barely sold. They crashed, and burned. Sure, they lasted 7 years. Big deal. 7 years of failure in terms of profit, popularity, and actuallybeing successful. remember, I said they were somewhat successful because I personally liked their games; but again, my opinion is IRREVELANT. In the rgand scheme of things, Troika is a failed company.

[Monte Carlo]

I don't think Troika would ever have been capable of making a genuinely successful mainstream game.

 

Their vision of what they wanted to do was so strong, it morphed into arrogance. I've played two out of three of their releases (Vampires? Meh). Both of them were deeply flawed, ToEE could have been great but wasn't. That makes their failure even more acute.

 

Having said that, it's not like I wish them any ill, in fact IIRC they're all doing pretty well working elsewhere. You might be the greatest games design genius in the world; it clearly doesn't mean that you're going to be able to run a successful development company.

 

As a customer, my view of Troika was that they weren't really interested in engaging with fans in a meaningful way (which I know is probably hard work, but it pays dividends), their products were buggy and rushed and in the case of TOEE, the relationship with Atari seemed, ahem, difficult.

 

Cheers

MC

[Hurlshort]

So where are you going with this? This is a thread about remembering Troika's successes. Are you here for any reason other than to troll?

 

 

edit: This is aimed at Volo, not Monte Carlo

Edited March 2, 2009 by Hurlshot

[Volourn]

Huh? Who says this threa dis only about Troika's 'successes'? The topic nor the original post suggests that. Don't think trolling is because someone has an opinion YOU disagree with. btw, It's not only me who have pointed out that Troika failed.

 

The trhead is about not forgeting Troika, and to me that includes their failure since 'those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it'.

 

Are you here for any reason other than to flame me?

 

I'm here to discuss, and remember Troika. Period.

[Hurlshort]

Heh, actually this thread really has nothing to do about Troika. And yes, I'm just here to flame you. It's irresistible. Goon squad, to the Goon Copter!

[Mamoulian War]

Huh? Who says this threa dis only about Troika's 'successes'? The topic nor the original post suggests that. Don't think trolling is because someone has an opinion YOU disagree with. btw, It's not only me who have pointed out that Troika failed.

 

The trhead is about not forgeting Troika, and to me that includes their failure since 'those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it'.

 

Are you here for any reason other than to flame me?

 

I'm here to discuss, and remember Troika. Period.

 

[Volourn]

That fits the Troika defenders to a tee.

 

'They're not a failure. Honest. even if they couldn't pay their employees anymore."

[Deadly_Nightshade]

'They're not a failure. Honest. even if they couldn't pay their employees anymore."

 

Maybe because there are other measures of success, ones that you are purposely ignoring so you can continue to troll.