Mass Effect 2 to appear in GDC

[Morgoth]

Now I agree that Kotor did a better job at letting the PC get involved into the history and culture of different alien nations. Something that I personally missed a bit in ME. There was some story from Liara about how the Asari reproduce, but I didn't get a chance to learn something about the Salarians or Turians. OTOH, ME was differently paced, alot faster and more action orientated, so I'm not sure it would made have sense to interrupt the player with all that codex stuff like it worked in Kotor. Still, I wish I get to know a bit more about the universe in ME2, and I mean not through panels.

 

 

kotor gave you some interaction with the fisheads, but what other race did you get similar interaction? not the sand people or wookies. by the same token, you did get a good deal o' history from me regarding the rachni and the krogan, asari and protheans. heck, Gromnir learned far more 'bout quarians from me than we did 'bout wookies or the tentacle head (mission vao) people in kotor.

 

me were starting from scratch with most o' the alien races where as kotor assumed that player had some pre-existing knowledge.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Well, I did learn quite a bit about the wookies and sandpeople, and those reptile people. I didn't learn anything about the Turians, Salarians or Volus, except of that first contact war. For ME2 I wish there'll be quests/levels that involve these Alien types. How about visiting one of the homeplanets of these Aliens, for starters?

[Wrath of Dagon]

@gromnir

Well you certainly learn a lot about the current situation on Kashyyk, and you get to participate in it. And Geth had meaningful interaction? You mean shooting them? Yes, ME did give you tons of background info, but you had to read it, in a game!

Edited January 13, 2009 by Wrath of Dagon

[Aristes]

Aw, I wasn't really trying to avoid blame so much as give credit. Monty sound like a good guy. You're a good guy, Monty! ...But you did sound a little over-earnest in responding to Gromnir. Hell, you sound a bit irritated in responding to me. That's no fun.

 

As for you, Hurlshot, we've got to read everybody's posts! How can we have a stew if the ingredients won't shake hands and mingle. Hell, I even read Dark Raven's posts, and they both confuse and frighten me most of the time.

 

In regards to KotOR, I can say that I thought it was a great game. I guess I'm a bit like Llyranor in that my attitude over time has changed. I can't deny my enjoyment while I played it and it gave me solid hours of fun. Don't get me wrong. It's just that I don't think I could play it again. I certainly couldn't play it again with the same gusto.

 

KotOR was a wonderful Star Wars experience, and the game has extra significance for those of us who were part of the Star Wars experience when it hit theaters in.... 1977. Something like that.

 

So, in that regard, I might not find Mass Effect all that great if it did everything like KotOR but without the Star Wars backdrop. KotOR 2 was much darker and more entertaining as a game in and of itself, where the incidental Star Wars backdrop wasn't a vital aspect that made the game enjoyable. The aspects I enjoyed about KotOR 2 were things apart from the the overall setting. That's what Mass Effect needs since it has no established setting to inspire feelings of nostalgia or a preset familiar story.

 

Once again, the reason I stayed out of the discussion for so long is that I haven't played Mass Effect. In retrospect, I regret posting here in the first place. Not because of what I posted. I believed it when I posted it and I still do. Monty's posts did give off a certain vibe. But now I feel compelled to post on topic, and the topic was never very certain. I read Wrath's posts because they can sometimes be interesting and occasionally even insightful. However, he is clearly biased against Mass Effect. Sure, you can be certain that, should the topic arise, Volourn will attack KotOR in a sort of mirror image of Wrath attacking Mass Effect. Fine. But Volourn doesn't normally start threads just to attack KotOR. When I see Wrath's name at the bottom of the board lists, I immediately associated it with that crazy anti-Mass Effect guy. We complain about "fanboys," but crazies who define themselves by the rabid desire to attack a game they didn't like baffle me. Sure, have a rant or two, but then get on with your life. Live past your pain and go into the light. Have a stiff drink and shake it off. Think of it as a learning experience. Whatever. Just give it a rest. Go find a game you really like and tell us why it's great. Don't spend so much time dwelling on some game you thought was bad.

 

From what I can tell, neither KotOR nor Mass Effect have a wellspring of dedicated followers here. The reason I haven't bought Mass Effect yet isn't because of the depth of hatred some folks seem to have for it. It's because of the shallow praise I've heard from the folks who enjoyed it. Very few people have given it anything more than stingy praise. I guess that might be a sign of our times in that most folks, looking down on those terrible fanboys think it's better to be cynical and jaded. For some reason, it's supposed to be better to find something you hate and post about it incessently than to find something good and exert yourself trying to convince folks to play it? Maybe neither one is good, but neither one is better. Wait, I take that back. I'd rather have someone who finds good things and irritates the hell out of me by trying to convince me that it's better than I think than someone who finds something bad and tries to show me how or why at every opportunity. Of course, what I'd really like is a candid discussion with folks who temper their enthusiasm/hatred. ...And, if I despise anything on these boards, I despise it when people have an axe to grind before they even put the game on their computers.

 

I can't really talk about Mass Effect's level design, which is why I've been relatively silent except for my foray into what I thought was a humorous discussion. However, feeling more or less obligated to post something on topic, I will observe that this thread was never really a discussion of any specific thing about Mass Effect. It's a thread that Wrath started to attack the game in any way he could contrive, and some of his attacks seem particularly contrived. I'll have to take your words for it, though. I've never played the game.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Go find a game you really like and tell us why it's great.

When I find one, I'll let you know.

 

and some of his attacks seem particularly contrived.

Which ones specifically? If you're going to make accusations, you need to back them up.

[Gromnir]

@gromnir

Well you certainly learn a lot about the current situation on Kashyyk, and you get to participate in it. And Geth had meaningful interaction? You mean shooting them? Yes, ME did give you tons of background info, but you had to read it, in a game!

 

you found the wookie interaction more meaningful than geth interaction? lord knows Gromnir learned very little 'bout the people or culture of wookies in kotor. we learned 'bout our wookie companion's family history a bit, but very little 'bout wookies.... and lord only knows why it is meaningful to have to learn 'bout geth from geth, or learn 'bout racchni from racchni. the noveria planet, from gameplay dialogues with various scientists and doing the hotlab stuff and elsewhere, Gromnir discovered a great deal 'bout the racchni... more than kotor gave us 'bout wookies or sand people. we interacted with me species and saw and we were given information 'bout 'em from Many different sources... not just from talking to jnpcs on the normandy... and again, both kotor2 and me fixed the mistake o' having jnpcs initiate stoopid convos at ridiculous times. an ideal solution? no, but so many people complained 'bout what you thinks were a positive that both obsidian and bioware changed where, when and how jnpcs interacted with the pc.

 

please note that Gromnir also felt like he didn't know virtually anything 'bout mass effect taurians or salarian, but again, me were introducing us to a whole new game universe... think they did an ok job o' giving us tedious background stuff.... which kotr didn't do... but did not really have to neither.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited January 13, 2009 by Gromnir

[Wrath of Dagon]

The only way you interacted with the Rachni was killing a metric ****ton of them, and then there was that one convo.

 

Edit: OK, I see your point that you did talk to the scientists about them, but how much did you find out exactly?

Edited January 13, 2009 by Wrath of Dagon

[Hurlshort]

Observations are different than accusations.

[Aristes]

and some of his attacks seem particularly contrived.

Which ones specifically? If you're going to make accusations, you need to back them up.

 

If you have not paid attention to the numerous, voluminous, massive number of posts where folks have cited speicifics, then you're certainly not going to pay any attention to mine. I guess one immediate example is the Kaiden thing who, unless he's a taperecorder with legs and a laser, cannot be a worse character than Carth.

 

Like I said at the end of my post, I'm forced to take other folks words for an assessment of Mass Effect. As it stands now, I'm certainly going to take words other than yours. Good Lord, your post to me is a clear example of your over the top fast response attitude on the subject.

[Wrath of Dagon]

A hostile observation is an accusation, and saying I'm contriving attacks and full of hatred for ME is hostile. If I seem excited occassionally, it's because of the frustration of not having people see what seems obvious to me.

[Wrath of Dagon]

I guess one immediate example is the Kaiden thing who, unless he's a taperecorder with legs and a laser, cannot be a worse character than Carth.

So because I think that Carth is a great character (and I do, and always did), and think Kaiden is a crummy one, that means I'm contriving my arguments?

 

Like I said at the end of my post, I'm forced to take other folks words for an assessment of Mass Effect. As it stands now, I'm certainly going to take words other than yours. Good Lord, your post to me is a clear example of your over the top fast response attitude on the subject.

Well, see for yourself, why should that bother me?

[Hurlshort]

But...you are full of hatred for ME and making attacks on it. Isn't that the point of all your posts? You think it's a horrible game, we get it.

[Llyranor]

It's obvious to you that KOTOR is better than ME.

 

It's obvious to everyone else that they're both atrocious pieces of crap.

 

]I enjoyed [Fallout 3] I finally admit. I think I had just about as much fun with this like I did with Bloodlines.

 

Its just a game, nothing to get worked up over. There are more important things in life to be concerned with.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Actually I gave it a 70, it's pretty fun as a cinematic shooter, I just like to point out its failures because they seem symptomatic of modern games in general.

[Llyranor]

KOTOR's failures also seem symptomatic of modern games in general as well. Funny that.

[Gromnir]

The only way you interacted with the Rachni was killing a metric ****ton of them, and then there was that one convo.

 

Edit: OK, I see your point that you did talk to the scientists about them, but how much did you find out exactly?

 

eh?

 

we found out all kinds o' stuff 'bout how they develop and what happened post racchni war. we learned that evil military folks were trying to breed 'em into controllable super soldiers. we learned of link between conduit and racchni and how first contact with racchni occurred. heck, we had a far more useful conversation with the racchni queen than with any wookie in kotor. heck, post kashykk, our wookie companion never aded ANYTHING... and his family on kashykk were hardly giving us history/anthropology lessons. kashykk is shakesperean melodrama... but take out all the witty and poetic dialogue and replace with inarticulate grunting.

 

now, based on kotor alone, tell us history of wookies and explain why a bunch o giant orangutans live like ted kaczynski in the woods, but seemingly got access to advanced weapons... and get themselves captured and sold into slavery by some kinda trade consortium regardless o' fact that it requires a jedi and multiple heavily armed companions simply to make a journey to the forest floor.

 

look, we get that bio faced hurdles as well. they couldn't mess with established star wars canon, yet they wanted to recreate star wars... so 'cause slavery o' wookies occurs in episodes 4-6, it lso hd to be in old republic... and 'cause lucas not give some well-defined history o' wookies, but might choose to do so in future, bio could not do so on their own. no doubt it were tough. even so, to say that kotor actually developed history nd culture o' included races more than did me is actully kinda silly. you folks is simply dragging along pre-existing knowledge to fill in the kotor gaps.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[DeathScepter]

at least Wookiee are not as ugly as the Rachi and Not all Wookiee are trying to kill you. And still I don't believe the Rachi Queen that she will leave in peace.

 

 

Yes I do think Kotor is a better game.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Wait, there's a link between conduit and Rachni?

 

Edit: Still you're either told or read all the history of the Rachni, the only gameplay you get is killing them, as I said. And all your so called contradictions about wookies are easily explained by the fact it's a fantasy game! Also they're not orangutans, they're fully sentient beings.

Edited January 13, 2009 by Wrath of Dagon

[Aristes]

A hostile observation is an accusation, and saying I'm contriving attacks and full of hatred for ME is hostile. If I seem excited occassionally, it's because of the frustration of not having people see what seems obvious to me.

 

"I'm not a Crusader! I just want to force people to see the truth!" hahahaha Good one.

 

And if it helps you feel better to characterize my statements as accusations, go for it. I'm accusing you. nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah. However, you really do contrive a lot of arguments. As I've said, you have pages and pages of folks giving evidence in this thread alone, let alone other threads on this board. If you haven't seen fit to listen to them, why the hell would you take the time to listen to me now? lol I'm not going to make a ten paragraph post with quotes you've already seen many many times. Anything from the similarities between KotOR and Mass Effect to the nature of the NPCs. For some of this, I'm forced to rely on other members of this forum, but since they've demonstrated better trust than you, I'll take their words over yours. Clearly some of your arguments are contrived. You seem to hate that word. Contrived contrived contrived contrived. hahaha

[Wrath of Dagon]

Come to think of it, you'll love ME, run out and get it, if you're allowed to buy M rated games that is.

[Llyranor]

LOL Aristes, you just got owned. You must be 12-yrs old because you're so stupid and immature. Aristes? More like Aristupid.

[Aristes]

I'll steal some cash from my mom's purse.

[Gromnir]

Wait, there's a link between conduit and Rachni?

 

Edit: Still you're either told or read all the history of the Rachni, the only gameplay you get is killing them, as I said. And all your so called contradictions about wookies are easily explained by the fact it's a fantasy game! Also they're not orangutans, they're fully sentient beings.

 

the gameplay aspect is getting dialogues from rachnii queen and scietists, as well as fighting them... not only on noveria but on other planets as a result o' military experimentations. dialogues with rachnii queen and with other races 'bout rachnii ain't gameplay? actual fight rachnii also counts as gameplay... 'especially since the places for rachnii attack actually had a point rather than the random seeming spawns that were popular in kotor.

 

as to coduit and rachnii... is reason that the matron benezia were digging around in the rachnii queen brain, no? the mu relay (sp?) were the gateway to ilos and the conduit. even if you not give a darn 'bout rachnii, the player's quest to gain access to conduit is made possible o' the bugs.

 

again, we got loads more info 'bout rachnii from me than we got from kotor 'bout wookies... and while kotor wookies were inexplicably primitive arborial slave fodder, we actual got that Development you so craved in individual jnpcs, no? racchnii eveolve from being simple bugs and mindless attack-bots, to a possible future ally or enemy for mankind and allied species. the convo with queen and various scientists makes obvious that the bugs ain't simple mindless cannon fodder.

 

is a cheap Ender's Game kinda thing? sure, but that is a damn site more development than we gets 'bout kotor wookies or sand people.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited January 13, 2009 by Gromnir

[Deadly_Nightshade]

Come to think of it, you'll love ME, run out and get it, if you're allowed to buy M rated games that is.

 

While I see reason to praise Aristes' post -in fact, I think it, or at least parts of it, qualifies as trolling-, this response is even worse. Good job, you just managed to hand ammunition to your opponents.

[Aristes]

Aw, come on guys. I have no permanent enemies and no real animosity. The fact is, I probably will get Mass Effect at this point, assuming I can convince the people who sell it that I'm over 18. Might be easier if I don't talk. I guess, finally having participated in one of these Mass Effect threads, my curiousity is finally getting the better of me. If I agree with all your points, which might very well happen, I'll come here and eat crow, Wrath. I've done it before. Okay, I'd better stop goofing off before the mods get after me again. You guy be nice to me while I return to the shadows now.

[CoM_Solaufein]

Lets keep to the topic and not picking on one another.