Mass Effect 2 to appear in GDC

[Calax]

Wait, there's a link between conduit and Rachni?

 

Edit: Still you're either told or read all the history of the Rachni, the only gameplay you get is killing them, as I said. And all your so called contradictions about wookies are easily explained by the fact it's a fantasy game! Also they're not orangutans, they're fully sentient beings.

Explain to me how Wookies past is explained to you in gameplay and not the Rachni. IIRC the Wookies told you about their problems, and while you were doing the Star Forge quest you just happened to kick Czerka out and expose a traitor in the wookies midst. Most of the exposing is done by finding a single datapad and then a small pile of dialogue. Also KotOR relied upon you having previous knowledge about Wookies, Life Debts, and most of the background on any of the species that have appeared in the books and movies.

 

Mass Effect didn't have the luxury of having an established universe to play around in, which is why they tossed in the Codex. I mean if I had played KotOR as a person who had never EVER touched Star Wars (which is almost impossible in this day and age) I'd be confused as all hell because Bioware relied upon the fact that at least everyone who plays the game, has seen the movies.

 

Also it's statements like the one above that make me question if you played the game before you condemn it. I mean the whole Rachni/conduit/ilos thing was pretty important, same thing with the Thorian on Feros. If you missed these plot points it's no wonder you seem to hate the game, you skipped most of the important dialogue and explanations. I mean Lord of the Rings would be a terrible book if you skipped everything except "Frodo gets ring, frodo takes ring to mordor, frodo looses finger." It's like you have tunnel vision when playing the game, you ignore anything not perfectly aligned with the main quest.

[Volourn]

"ME is all about Saren's stupid plot, and nothing else."

 

Simply not true. Then again, anyone who prefers the much shallower KOTOR would think that, and not understand the awesome of ME. ME is also about humanity finding their way in space society. The game is also about racism - heck, one of the main love interest's is a racist -that's a lot more interesting than any npc in KOTOR by far. The fact that the game actually has the gall to AWARD players' potential racism is much darker and deeper and more complex than the vast majority of game sincluding that overrated semi okay trash KOTOR series.

 

ME's universe is also shown quite a bit in the actual game when you inetract with characters - both in, and out of the party.

Edited January 13, 2009 by Volourn

[Llyranor]

You shut the crap up. Finding the 4 star maps - IN ANY ORDER YOU CHOSE - was compelling gameplay and storytelling.

[mkreku]

God, you guys make this game sound so bad. And I even bought it, I just can't force myself to install it! It cost nothing on a sale here in Sweden.. that's my excuse. One day I'll play it.. after the horrible memories of Jade Empire has faded enough..

 

Does anyone think there will be a Jade Empire 2, by the way?

[Volourn]

Nope. I think JE is done.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Wait, there's a link between conduit and Rachni?

 

Edit: Still you're either told or read all the history of the Rachni, the only gameplay you get is killing them, as I said. And all your so called contradictions about wookies are easily explained by the fact it's a fantasy game! Also they're not orangutans, they're fully sentient beings.

Explain to me how Wookies past is explained to you in gameplay and not the Rachni. IIRC the Wookies told you about their problems, and while you were doing the Star Forge quest you just happened to kick Czerka out and expose a traitor in the wookies midst. Most of the exposing is done by finding a single datapad and then a small pile of dialogue.

I didn't say anything about Wookie past, I said current situation on Kashyyk. And what do you mean it's just one data pad, the whole storyline is nothing but Wookies, it's a wookarama.

 

Also KotOR relied upon you having previous knowledge about Wookies, Life Debts, and most of the background on any of the species that have appeared in the books and movies.

 

Mass Effect didn't have the luxury of having an established universe to play around in, which is why they tossed in the Codex. I mean if I had played KotOR as a person who had never EVER touched Star Wars (which is almost impossible in this day and age) I'd be confused as all hell because Bioware relied upon the fact that at least everyone who plays the game, has seen the movies.

No, all I knew about Star Wars was Darth Vader was evil and the Jedi return, whoever they are. Also I hate SW because it's for kids. All I learned about SW was from KOTOR.

Also it's statements like the one above that make me question if you played the game before you condemn it. I mean the whole Rachni/conduit/ilos thing was pretty important, same thing with the Thorian on Feros. If you missed these plot points it's no wonder you seem to hate the game, you skipped most of the important dialogue and explanations. I mean Lord of the Rings would be a terrible book if you skipped everything except "Frodo gets ring, frodo takes ring to mordor, frodo looses finger." It's like you have tunnel vision when playing the game, you ignore anything not perfectly aligned with the main quest.

All these mind melds and alien mind impressions get me confused. I know you get a little bit of info accidentally at the end of each planet, but it's basically a check mark you get at the end to progress the plot, you're not even looking for anything specific, it's kind of just coincidental, another thing I hated. Edited January 14, 2009 by Wrath of Dagon

[Wrath of Dagon]

" ME is also about humanity finding their way in space society. The game is also about racism - heck, one of the main love interest's is a racist -that's a lot more interesting than any npc in KOTOR by far. The fact that the game actually has the gall to AWARD players' potential racism is much darker and deeper and more complex than the vast majority of game sincluding that overrated semi okay trash KOTOR series.

But except for Udina screaming at the council and an occassional hostile comment to Shepard, it's not really dramatized. And like I said, Ashley clammed up early, so I didn't see much of the racist stuff. I did have one good convo with her, so yeah, she's an OK character.

[Wrath of Dagon]

You shut the crap up. Finding the 4 star maps - IN ANY ORDER YOU CHOSE - was compelling gameplay and storytelling.

You also had quite a bit of freedom on each planet, something that was sadly missing in ME.

[theslug]

Does anyone think there will be a Jade Empire 2, by the way?

Supposedly there was some sort of leaked game code or someone saw coding for it or something but it was a long time ago and it's little more than rumor but I don't see why they wouldn't make one considering it's a pretty decent ip.

[Volourn]

"Ashley clammed up early,"

 

She talked to me throughout the game. *shrug*

 

 

"You also had quite a bit of freedom on each planet"

 

4 STAR MAPS!

 

 

"something that was sadly missing in ME."

 

WRONG!

 

 

 

"But except for Udina screaming at the council and an occassional hostile comment to Shepard, it's not really dramatized."

 

Sure, it is. Multiple side quests deal with racism/hatred for others different from one's self.

Edited January 14, 2009 by Volourn

[alanschu]

"Bland, boring and it failed to keep anyones interest"

 

O RLY? anyone? ANYONE? *ANYONE*? A N Y O N E A N Y O N E A N Y O N E?

 

 

 

Bueller? Bueller?

[Wrath of Dagon]

"Ashley clammed up early,"

 

She talked to me throughout the game. *shrug*

I chewed her out for unprofessional conduct (gossip about her superior officer).

 

Sure, it is. Multiple side quests deal with racism/hatred for others different from one's self.

I don't remember any, except the earth first party, but anyway I hated all sidequests except 2.

[Calax]

Wait, there's a link between conduit and Rachni?

 

Edit: Still you're either told or read all the history of the Rachni, the only gameplay you get is killing them, as I said. And all your so called contradictions about wookies are easily explained by the fact it's a fantasy game! Also they're not orangutans, they're fully sentient beings.

Explain to me how Wookies past is explained to you in gameplay and not the Rachni. IIRC the Wookies told you about their problems, and while you were doing the Star Forge quest you just happened to kick Czerka out and expose a traitor in the wookies midst. Most of the exposing is done by finding a single datapad and then a small pile of dialogue.

I didn't say anything about Wookie past, I said current situation on Kashyyk. And what do you mean it's just one data pad, the whole storyline is nothing but Wookies, it's a wookarama.

Except the thing is that the whole drama with the family and all that jazz could have easily been done with any other species. Hell it could have been done with humans on Taris. As to the "current situation on Kashyyyk" all that bioware had to do to create that was look at what the Empire was doing during it's height and translate that into the KotOR era. Also the whole family business thing on Kashyyyk is exactly what you disliked, it was filler. Each planet had a filler on it to make it so the game had a much larger scope than it really did. Mass Effect they went a different direction and made it so you didn't have to play the filler if you didn't want to, whereas in KotOR, even though it had no impact on the galaxy at large, you had to deal with a family drama, stop sand people from raiding, become a lawyer (which IMHO was a stupid plot. How the hell is a jedi supposed to be able to be a lawyer? their the sheriff not the DA), Pick which side was right in a generational feud on the unnamed planet, Korribon is the only planet out of the star forge worlds that had consequences beyond the planet. Seriously all I remember from Kashyyyk was a quiz to figure out if you were really Revan, and finding a datapad to show off to the other wookies that they were betrayed. Oh, and finding jolee.

Also KotOR relied upon you having previous knowledge about Wookies, Life Debts, and most of the background on any of the species that have appeared in the books and movies.

 

Mass Effect didn't have the luxury of having an established universe to play around in, which is why they tossed in the Codex. I mean if I had played KotOR as a person who had never EVER touched Star Wars (which is almost impossible in this day and age) I'd be confused as all hell because Bioware relied upon the fact that at least everyone who plays the game, has seen the movies.

No, all I knew about Star Wars was Darth Vader was evil and the Jedi return, whoever they are. Also I hate SW because it's for kids. All I learned about SW was from KOTOR.

Wow, if everything you learned about star wars is from KotOR, you have a really skewed version of the universe. That's probably why you hold KotOR up as a better game. Everything that was done in KotOR was ripped from various other places within the universe. Taris=Courscant, all bioware did was take tropes from older days and throw that star wars sheen on them.

Also it's statements like the one above that make me question if you played the game before you condemn it. I mean the whole Rachni/conduit/ilos thing was pretty important, same thing with the Thorian on Feros. If you missed these plot points it's no wonder you seem to hate the game, you skipped most of the important dialogue and explanations. I mean Lord of the Rings would be a terrible book if you skipped everything except "Frodo gets ring, frodo takes ring to mordor, frodo looses finger." It's like you have tunnel vision when playing the game, you ignore anything not perfectly aligned with the main quest.

All these mind melds and alien mind impressions get me confused. I know you get a little bit of info accidentally at the end of each planet, but it's basically a check mark you get at the end to progress the plot, you're not even looking for anything specific, it's kind of just coincidental, another thing I hated.

Mass Effect is more of a detective game than KotOR was. You weren't given a task and told "Now get to it!". Instead you had to go though figure out where Saren had been interested in, and then follow his trail to learn what the heck was going on. Every "mind meld" that you had happen to you had immediatly after it a summary of what you were supposed to know. You rail that ME was all about combat and there was no gameplay mechanics to tell a story when you've obviously not been paying attention to what you're being told. Mass Effect relies upon the player being observant, and also making logical jumps, where KotOR almost force fed you the entire story line so that nobody could get lost. Heck Mass Effect has I believe in the codex or quest log, a "what's happened" tab so that if you take a LONG break you can catch up on where exactly Shepard is.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Except the thing is that the whole drama with the family and all that jazz could have easily been done with any other species. Hell it could have been done with humans on Taris. As to the "current situation on Kashyyyk" all that bioware had to do to create that was look at what the Empire was doing during it's height and translate that into the KotOR era.

I suppose you could call them something other than Wookies, but you did encounter their government and politics, some of their culture, myths, their relationship with humans.

Also the whole family business thing on Kashyyyk is exactly what you disliked, it was filler. Each planet had a filler on it to make it so the game had a much larger scope than it really did. Mass Effect they went a different direction and made it so you didn't have to play the filler if you didn't want to, whereas in KotOR, even though it had no impact on the galaxy at large, you had to deal with a family drama, stop sand people from raiding, become a lawyer (which IMHO was a stupid plot. How the hell is a jedi supposed to be able to be a lawyer? their the sheriff not the DA), Pick which side was right in a generational feud on the unnamed planet, Korribon is the only planet out of the star forge worlds that had consequences beyond the planet. Seriously all I remember from Kashyyyk was a quiz to figure out if you were really Revan, and finding a datapad to show off to the other wookies that they were betrayed. Oh, and finding jolee.

What you call filler is what I play RPG's for. Also some of the stuff you mentioned was optional.

Mass Effect is more of a detective game than KotOR was. You weren't given a task and told "Now get to it!". Instead you had to go though figure out where Saren had been interested in, and then follow his trail to learn what the heck was going on. Every "mind meld" that you had happen to you had immediatly after it a summary of what you were supposed to know. You rail that ME was all about combat and there was no gameplay mechanics to tell a story when you've obviously not been paying attention to what you're being told. Mass Effect relies upon the player being observant, and also making logical jumps, where KotOR almost force fed you the entire story line so that nobody could get lost. Heck Mass Effect has I believe in the codex or quest log, a "what's happened" tab so that if you take a LONG break you can catch up on where exactly Shepard is.

It's not a detective game, because you're told which planets to go to, and then once you shoot your way through the planet, the next tidbit is automatically revealed.

[Calax]

you didn't really encounter politics in KotOR. You got drama, but not really politics. Politics are rarely touched on in video games. Culture and myths and relationships with humans were all touched on in ME too. Differently but touched on.

 

As to the filler, yes you play though them usually, as most RPG's require you to do random stuff before you can continue the main questline. I thought it nice that in Mass Effect you could just scream through the Main quest and figure out what was going on without having to find little suzies doll.

[Llyranor]

Stop baiting, Calax. They're Star Maps, not suzies dolls. STAR MAPS.

[alanschu]

Now I agree that Kotor did a better job at letting the PC get involved into the history and culture of different alien nations. Something that I personally missed a bit in ME. There was some story from Liara about how the Asari reproduce, but I didn't get a chance to learn something about the Salarians or Turians. OTOH, ME was differently paced, alot faster and more action orientated, so I'm not sure it would have made sense to interrupt the player with all that codex stuff while shooting Geth in the face. Still, I wish I get to know a bit more about the universe in ME2, and I mean not through panels.

 

 

Most of this stuff was found in the Codex still though, IIRC, but as you say that's not how you wanted to learn about it.

[Volourn]

"OTOH, ME was differently paced, alot faster and more action orientated,"

 

Oh please, KOTOR had just as much combat as ME did and wa sjust as much action oriented. And, at least ME has the excuse of being an Action RPG.

[Tigranes]

Is ME combat any better than KOTOR's, though? Looks pretty boring to me, but I obviously haven't tried it much.

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

Depends if you prefer D20 turn-based combat or third person shooters. Even then ME is a pretty bland third person shooter.

[Llyranor]

And KOTOR was a pretty bland dumbed-down D20 'turn-based' system. Both games have pretty mediocre combat.

[Volourn]

ME's combat is awesome. KOTOR's combat is plain, old fashion crap. It's super dumbed down D&D.

 

 

"Depends if you prefer D20 turn-based combat or third person shooters."

 

Funny enough, I prefer D&D over shooters and ME's combat is superior to KOTOR. Then again, ME isn't a shooter and KOTOR isn't turn based so you even got what they are wrong so your assessments are useless.

 

R00fles!

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

Well, my only complaint with the combat in ME is the game never really required you to use cover, since eventually you had enough shield to survive anything and you were better off just strafing. The rest is just how the game's animation seems akward in combat, for some reason I can't really explain.

 

Biotic powers were fun, though. Singularity is just awesome.

[Volourn]

"since eventually you had enough shield to survive anything and you were better off just strafing."

 

wut? I stayed out in the open for too long and I would auto die espicially against multiple enemies. But, hey, it sure beats KOTOR where there was no such thing as cover, and you can stay out in the open all day and live.

[Maria Caliban]

"since eventually you had enough shield to survive anything and you were better off just strafing."

 

wut? I stayed out in the open for too long and I would auto die espicially against multiple enemies. But, hey, it sure beats KOTOR where there was no such thing as cover, and you can stay out in the open all day and live.

 

 

How powerful you are for the main planets depends on how many UCW you've done. I will say though that a 30 + level soldier can easily stand in the middle of a firefight for long periods of time soaking damage.