NWN2: Storm of Zehir is out!

[Walsingham]

Quick question: do I have to buy a copy of the game for each of my friends if we want to play together? I'm just ordering a big heap through Amazon.

[Llyranor]

yes

[Nick_i_am]

yeah, they each need their own CD key for each copy of the game + expansion that you want to use in a multiplayer game.

[Pidesco]

Your awesome new sig is awesome.

 

In other news I buckled and ordered SoZ from Play.com, yesterday.

[Lare Kikkeli]

Fix for the no buffs on the overland map thing: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=NWN2S...tail&id=247

 

Too time consuming and expensive, huh

[Nick_i_am]

haha, man, you're bitter.

[J.E. Sawyer]

Fix for the no buffs on the overland map thing: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=NWN2S...tail&id=247

 

Too time consuming and expensive, huh

Yeah, it's too time consuming and expensive for a team that's focusing on an entire game instead of a single feature. Xthon summed it up pretty well in the thread on the topic:

 

I think it's worth noting three things:

 

1. There are more community members than devs. In other words, the community can come up with more ideas more quickly.

 

2. The devs have multiple issues to work on.

 

3. Sometimes, when you are in the middle of a problem, it takes someone outside to see a solution.

 

If you focus on one thing and release it as a mod in an environment that's extremely tolerant of buggy behavior, you can solve a lot of things. I don't want to knock Netriak; it's an ingenious solution that captures 95% of the gameplay cases. But it's obviously not bulletproof and it was the one thing he was focusing on. SoZ had three full-time programmers: Bobby Null (junior), Justin Reynard (junior), and Rich Taylor (lead). Toward the end of the project, they also had Anthony Davis. That's not a lot of programmers for everything they had to implement and update.

 

I've seen a lot of threads where people commented on the overland map, party creation features, and party dialogue as though they were really simple to implement and could have been done in a snap by any modder with a passing interest in it. They weren't, and they couldn't -- not because there aren't talented modders, but because some of these features demanded code changes. On any project, there comes a point in time where you have to make decisions on what features to keep and what features to cut off. This also applies to solving bugs. I previously gave the example of the stacking issues in NWN1/2. The "proper" solution to that problem would be to build in bonus types to all bonuses, default unspecified/unnamed bonuses to enhancement (for ability score bonuses, anyway), and go back to alter all existing item templates and scripts with the new bonus typing. But from a practical perspective, it wasn't a good use of time compared to everything else we had to deal with on the project.

[J.E. Sawyer]

I think it's also worth mentioning that he isn't maintaining the game effects on the characters on the overland map, so any bonuses you "should" be receiving there are still absent. E.g., dex bonus to Hide from Cat's Grace, skill bonus from Prayer, etc. Again, not to knock Netriak, but it doesn't solve the problem entirely.

[Aristes]

I think the point is that the work around solution is perfect as a player generated mod, but you guys would be hammered by folks for the shortcomings in the solution. I've heard that game design really isn't about making the most people happy, but making the fewest angry. Maybe that's a gross generalization, but this goes to prove the point. Sure this particular problem with the overland map has been the object of much derision. On the other hand, Obsidian has been hammered worse for bugs in general and at least this isn't a bug, per se. Much better to take their lump from folks who think buffs disappearing on the overland map is a real game breaker. After all, if they'd missed a real game breaking bug, I'm sure it would have been worse.

 

All that aside, I'm skipping this title. I've batted the idea around, but I just can't take the engine anymore. Looks like I'm heading straight to Aliens and maybe AP.

[Morgoth]

It seems like everyone's now crazy on ordering SoZ, am I the only one who already sold his copy without finishing it?

[Zoma]

Just you. For now maybe.

[Gorgon]

I like the game, don't like all the things the engine can't do, but it's alright. It's not Mask of the Betrayer, but what is these days.

[Zoma]

I think I played over 20 hours by now to form an opinion. I'm currently at the last part of the game and now taking a break due to the sudden jump of difficulty. For a guy who just marathoned over 8 hours in one day during the weekend, the spike in difficulty convinced me that I should take a break.

 

 

I agree with many that the engine is outdated.

 

The outdatedness can be felt strongly even when playing SoZ as you can't help but feel the engine is pretty restrictive despite being heavily modded to fit in the overland map. The unresponsive old engine which affected the combat of the game can be felt in the overland map itself: NPCs and Monsters not moving at times, your player occassionally teleports on the map while travelling and then back again, as though the engine is unable to keep up with the player's actions. In addition, the number load times involved does affect the pacing for those who may be playing the game with old computers. Furthermore, SoZ has a surprisingly high amount of in game crashes for me which occurs once in a few hours. That itself speaks much for the stability of the modded engine. I wonder if there is a possibility of memory leak in SoZ?

 

The overland travel reminds me alot of the old school RPGs, notably the game Betrayal in Krondor in the manner of visiting cities or towns. Personally I wished Obsidian could spare more people from the art department and create an interface for the visiting towns similar to Krondor's where it is presented with a large painting and clicking on the part of the painting will lead you to the specified area. The implementation of skill checks in the overland map is a GREAT idea, making some skills passively useful instead of relying them on quest events only. I wish they could be more clearer in the effects of parley though, both in instructions and in presentation.

 

The trade mini-game is surprisingly addictive despite its simplicity compared to say, Pirates! So I suppose Obsidian managed to hit the gameplay right since they managed to suck so many hours from me in this mini-game, often getting distracted from the main quest itself. However, I wish more could be done which would involved other trade or guild factions in the game that will interweave with your guild's activities.

 

Party based chat system is one of the cool feature for SoZ. Each members of your party, depending on their alignment, Deity they worship, race and class introduces new chat or event options that another does not have. Alot of work was invested in this feature in both presentation and execution since there are so many variables to be set. This is a feature that Obsidian must be commended for its great implementation that makes a party based chat far more interesting and dynamic.

 

Most dungeons in the game are small, with the smaller ones simply being random dungeon with loots which is quest unrelated. However, I kind of feel that more of the quest related dungeons can be fa more interesting. The good dungeons are like Umberlee's quest, which is both well crafted in visual(Stunningly beautiful) and technical design. Others simply involves clearing some anonymous hostiles which is disappointing.

 

The main quest itself is shockingly short. I wished more resources could had been invested in this area and if it were not for the trade mini game and vast overland map, I would had completed the game in just under 15 hours. Unfortunately, the story is easily forgettable. I wished more effort was put into the main protagonists/atagonists' character since we barely knew her at all up to the end. The plotline revolving around Zehir is sadly lacking and we barely knew what god is it. More backstories should had been done for Storm of Zehir to make it more interesting. Icewind Dale's plot afterall was fantastic despite being a party based game.

 

The music in the game is fantastic. Kudos to the music team that handled it.

 

In conclusion, Storm of Zehir is a good game and the tools packadge along like the overland map or the party chat system brings so much potential to the modders. The gripes I have is that the main quest is disappointingly short and the trade mini-game could had been much more. Another unfortunate aspect to be brought up would be the outdated engine itself that still brought over the clunky unresponsiveness from NWN2.

 

If Obsidian ever grants the opportunity to develop NWN3, I hope the overland system and party based system gets carried over and further refined to make the game even more immersive. Better do it with a NEW ENGINE this time since its clear that NWN2's production was full of fubars with the old engine being one of the factors.

[poolofpoo]

Here are my thoughts after finishing the game;

 

 

 

First of all i appreciate what they were trying to do with this expansion, it's nice to see something new instead of a sixth installment of the same old same old. However it doesn't really hold up.

 

 

There's no challenge whatsover in the trade system. It's just a matter of setting up as many caravans as possible and upgrade them. You can't go wrong and soon you swim in money. Instead, how about making some routes non profitable and even changing the profitability every know and then. To be interesting the trade system would need at least SOME complexity and the risk of actually losing money and reputation.

 

There are serious balancing issues througout. The first part is difficult, then the whole of the sword coast is a breeze, so the jump in difficulty when you enter the last part of the game comes as a complete surprise and the final battle was insane.

 

All taverns look pretty much the same with ONE interesting person in each, how about a little variation?

 

After a short while you realize that all indoor areas are just one small map and exploring them becomes kinda boring since you know that there's no need to hold back on spells and whatnot, you'll be out in the open in five minutes anyway. A little variation here as well perhaps?

 

 

After the meeting with the trade houses in Conenbmyr the story just falls apart.

 

 

Not much replayability, especially since you can chose to see all different outcomes in the end.

[Llyranor]

I've been playing this co-op with moron and it's been pretty fun. We're finished with the first world map. I can see how other people would be disappointed, though, given the lack of emphasis on story/writing/characters. The actual focus on gameplay has made the co-op a smoother experience, so that's actually a plus for us.

 

My favorite game soundtrack this year. Well done, Obs.

[mkreku]

No more D&D. No more Electron. Enough.

 

Now let's concentrate on Alpha Protocol and Aliens RPG! :D

[Volourn]

The problem with the gameplay is that it's horrid. the combat is easy, and boring. the load times are atrocious - worse than any other Aurora game. The dungeons are jokes and have absolutely zero atmosphere which is a joke for a exploration/combat/dungeon exploring game. It's sad when MOTB has vastly superior gameplay and combat when MOTB had other things go on with it. Best thing about SOZ is that it isn't buggy (for me). Death system is cool; but even that was ruined because of how easy the combat actually is. Not to mention the lame raise dead coins.

 

P.S. the music is aweosme though, and is one of the best ever.

[funcroc]

IGN review

 

Closing Comments

Fans of D&D and single-player role-playing games should definitely check out Storm of Zehir. Yes, there's a shortage of single-player D&D games in this age of MMOs that we live in, but Obsidian has still crafted an involving and engaging adventure. It's also nice to see the company take risks, presenting new forms of gameplay and evolving its series even further. With its emphasis on party, this feels like an homage to the old school D&D games of the past.

[mkreku]

Storm of Zehir tries to be the square peg in Neverwinter Nights 2's round hole, with predictably lackluster results.

 

Gamespot 6.0/10: http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/neverwinter...hir/review.html

[funcroc]

Gamespot review

 

Storm of Zehir isn't a terrible addition to the D&D gaming canon, although it is a lot less refined than you might expect. You have to suspect that this is the result of straying too far from the original Neverwinter Nights 2 formula, and ultimately this expansion pack isn't as enjoyable.

[mkreku]

AHAHA!! I beat funcroc by over an hour!

 

You're slacking, you old internet news stalker you! :D

[Amentep]

Weird, I feel like the odd man out because I'm so far enjoying Storm of Zehir better than Mask of the Betrayer (which I never finished - I hate games that force eating mechanisms into the gameplay ). Also not had a problem with the voice acting either (maybe its because I really don't listen to it as I can read faster than most VO actors talk and get bored waiting for them to finish?)

[Rosbjerg]

Weird, I feel like the odd man out because I'm so far enjoying Storm of Zehir better than Mask of the Betrayer (which I never finished - I hate games that force eating mechanisms into the gameplay ). Also not had a problem with the voice acting either (maybe its because I really don't listen to it as I can read faster than most VO actors talk and get bored waiting for them to finish?)

 

No, I enjoy/enjoyed SOZ quite a lot aswell. But not more than MoTB, not really less either. They try to be different things and succed at what they are trying to be, imho.

[Amentep]

Well I don't hate MotB (although I hate the feeding bit)...I just haven't finished it.

 

I guess maybe I'll give it another go after I finish SoZ...

Edited December 2, 2008 by Amentep

[Morgoth]

MotB > NWN2 OC > SoZ.