Fallout 3 Spoilers

[Hurlshort]

Just finished the game and:

 

 

I really enjoyed it and I'm surprised by the complaints. Yes, Fawkes the mutant refusing to go in was pretty silly, but I thought the ending was solid. It wasn't as personalized as the previous games, but it still had a bit of personality and it left more to the player's imagination. I sacrificed myself, by the way.

 

I'm interested in hearing what the evil character cut scene says.

 

[~Di]

The Tenpenny quest is the one most folks are ranting about at Beth's Fallout 3 forums, so we're not the only ones who found it jarring and out of character. My problem is that I was never given an option to save the people of the tower without dropping my karma an entire level. That makes no sense, that a good character with good intentions is not given the chance to pursue the good option without losing a ton of karma... and several quests to boot, since some of the citizens of the tower were needed for future quests. I mean, you can take non-hostile Tenpenny who has just agreed to let in the ghouls out with a cold-blooded shot to the head, and get GOOD karma from that act, but if you take out Roy, who has just told you he plans to massacre the entire human population of the tower, you get BAD karma. That makes no sense at any level.

 

Personally, I think dialogue was cracked. There should have been an option for the PC, when first talking to Roy and hearing his murderous threats against the inhabitants of the tower, to say something like, "You know I can't allow you to do that" whereupon Roy goes hostile and can be killed without karma loss. As it is, the evil character cannot lose with this quest, and the good character cannot win. To me, and literally hundreds of folks screaming foul at the Fallout 3 forum, this seems like a developer "gotcha". They lured good characters into thinking they could be helpful, only to let it dawn on them when it was too late to do anything about it that they had been had... not by Roy, though. By the developers.

 

Anyway, I'm not about to get into an intellectual debate about a game quest, particularly not in a game that I absolutely love otherwise. I will, however, manipulate the game in my own way next time by not telling Roy I've succeeded in the mediation. The quest will show as completed. Tenpenny lives; Roy's group lives, and I'm happy. It's a win-win.

Edited November 12, 2008 by ~Di

[random n00b]

My problem is that I was never given an option to save the people of the tower without dropping my karma an entire level. That makes no sense, that a good character with good intentions is not given the chance to pursue the good option without losing a ton of karma...

But you are given the chance to pursue a good option. It just doesn't turn out ok. Why should it? You don't like how the quest is solved, that's a different issue.

 

And if karma is such a big deal, just go crush that bum outside Megaton under a mountain of water bottles...

 

 

and several quests to boot, since some of the citizens of the tower were needed for future quests. I mean, you can take non-hostile Tenpenny who has just agreed to let in the ghouls out with a cold-blooded shot to the head, and get GOOD karma from that act, but if you take out Roy, who has just told you he plans to massacre the entire human population of the tower, you get BAD karma. That makes no sense at any level.

Yes, that's inconsistent alright. But it's not directly, essentially related to how you conduct your dealings with Roy.

 

 

Personally, I think dialogue was cracked. There should have been an option for the PC, when first talking to Roy and hearing his murderous threats against the inhabitants of the tower, to say something like, "You know I can't allow you to do that" whereupon Roy goes hostile and can be killed without karma loss.

Why should there be such an option? It's not like Roy's plans are any more realistic than any other wasteland lunatic's, unless he enlists the player's help. You needn't kill him if you are playing a good guy, because by simply walking away, you are making sure his plans are unrealizable.

 

Being a good guy isn't shooting bad guys on sight. That's vigilante. There's a difference.

 

 

As it is, the evil character cannot lose with this quest, and the good character cannot win. To me, and literally hundreds of folks screaming foul at the Fallout 3 forum, this seems like a developer "gotcha". They lured good characters into thinking they could be helpful, only to let it dawn on them when it was too late to do anything about it that they had been had... not by Roy, though. By the developers.

So, the player should be able to win out any situation, under all circumstances, everytime? Further, and considering that the player doesn't really lose the quest, he should be able to get exactly the desired outcome, always? And this is so, because...?

 

I've critiziced Beth's decisions wrt other matters, but I applaud their bravery to include a quest without the same cookie-cutter and predictable resolution as virtually every other quest in every other game, in which the result is tailored to suit the player's assumed outlook. A little lack of control over a world that's supposed to be alive and only partially influenced by the player's actions is always a good thing. And for their originality, they get "hundreds", nay, thousands, zillions even, of disgruntled players, crying out in anger at the failure of their Mary Sues to get a suitably clich

[GreasyDogMeat]

All I can say is: I disagree. Unless you really think the entire series has been 'karma broken' when it comes to killing an evil character who has asked you to murder someone but then you turn around and kill the thug/mafia guy/plain old killer who made the request.

 

Also, I never said I KNEW that Roy would end up killing everyone in the tower, just that the game was leading me along as if it was the only 'good' solution and that it really isn't any kind of surprise when he ends up killing everyone. That is what this quest completely lacks, subtlety. Doesn't take a psychic to realize he was up to no good when listening to him, AND asking you to do his dirty work. In that sense the voice actor did a great job. I didn't get a hint of compassion from him.

 

You can argue real world morality all you like, but in the Fallout 'universe', a character asking you to perform an evil deed, even with no evidence of prior evil deeds (and seriously, how many of the villains sit down and explain how many terrible things they've done before asking you to perform this particular deed) is pretty much always fair game. I can just imagine what you would need to feel happy killing one of the bad guys. "Hmm, why yes let me see, back in 67' I torched a Children of the Cathedral church. Then in 68 I captured about 15 slaves for the slavers." Player: "Ok, yeah you will definitely qualify for lots of positive karma for me".

 

F1 may have left me feeling manipulated, but in a good way. This quest just made me feel like a fool for following the game's suddenly twisted karma system. Not only that but the damn quest had numerous bugs. I'm just glad it is over with and I've moved on to other quests.

[random n00b]

Unless you really think the entire series has been 'karma broken' when it comes to killing an evil character who has asked you to murder someone but then you turn around and kill the thug/mafia guy/plain old killer who made the request.

But it's not as clear cut in this case, since Roy also accepts to try and live peacefully with the tower's inhabitants if you can convince them, even if he's a rotten liar, a fact that the player only becomes privy to AFTER trying to have both groups coexist peacefully.

 

 

Also, I never said I KNEW that Roy would end up killing everyone in the tower, just that the game was leading me along as if it was the only 'good' solution and that it really isn't any kind of surprise when he ends up killing everyone. That is what this quest completely lacks, subtlety. Doesn't take a psychic to realize he was up to no good when listening to him, AND asking you to do his dirty work. In that sense the voice actor did a great job. I didn't get a hint of compassion from him.

True enough. But it wouldn't have come off as a surprise either if he had been content with just being let into the tower, seeing how that's what his pals really want, and the whole reason for the quest.

 

 

You can argue real world morality all you like, but in the Fallout 'universe', a character asking you to perform an evil deed, even with no evidence of prior evil deeds (and seriously, how many of the villains sit down and explain how many terrible things they've done before asking you to perform this particular deed) is pretty much always fair game. I can just imagine what you would need to feel happy killing one of the bad guys. "Hmm, why yes let me see, back in 67' I torched a Children of the Cathedral church. Then in 68 I captured about 15 slaves for the slavers." Player: "Ok, yeah you will definitely qualify for lots of positive karma for me".

Again, you are making use of poorly built strawmen to get your point across. Most evil characters you come across either shoot you on sight, or are in the middle of nefarious business when you meet them, as is the case of slavers. In all those cases you have material proof of their deeds, as opposed to a "gut feeling" or mere declarations of bigotry and hate. How about executing the bigots inside Tenpenny's? There are a few of them that are willing to reward your efforts if you kill the ghouls - they effectively want to hire you as a hitman, as they lack the stomach to get their own dirty work done themselves. That ok by your standards, as well? Are they any less "evil"?

 

 

This quest just made me feel like a fool for following the game's suddenly twisted karma system.

Well, try roleplaying, then. The karma system being understood as a minigame of its own makes for very boring playthroughs.

[GreasyDogMeat]

Thing is, while it is true that the player may not know that Roy is planning to kill no matter what, the karma system should, just as you get negative karma for stealing when it would be impossible for anyone to realize it. My first instinct (which turned out to be correct) was that he was evil and needed to be put down and unlike every other game in the series and every other quest in Fallout 3 the karma system judged his death as an evil act on my part, despite many other evil characters having alternate non-violent solutions. Its a massive deviation from the karma norm. Karma isn't supposed to be a system that judges you on being able to handle an evil character with an alternate non-aggressive means. The karma system isn't supposed to require 'physical proof'. Its why you can get positive Karma for offing Doc Morbid without evidence of his 'human meat' in the basement and why you can walk right up to Tenpenny and blast him. You are treating the karma system as if it is the judicial system when it is more of a 'mystical' system.

 

Also, yes I actually do consider Roy significantly more evil than those who hire you to kill him and the other ghouls. Many of the inhabitants are (correctly it turns out) motivated by fear of the ghouls, or a (correct) fear that they may get violent over the repeated refusal of allowing them to live in the tower. Instead of moving on and leaving the tower to the inhabitants, Roy is only interested in murder and is veiling that lust for blood behind an excuse of being persecuted. Also, the hit-job against the ghouls is just 3 ghouls. The assault on the tower is well over 30 men, women and possibly children.

 

Again, I have no problem with a negative karma for killing the two ghoul followers of Roy. Its Roy and his relation to the karma system that is whack. About the only way I can rationalize a negative karma hit for Roy is if the game assumes the player is killing him out of bigotry, which certainly wasn't the way I was roleplaying the game.

[random n00b]

Thing is, while it is true that the player may not know that Roy is planning to kill no matter what, the karma system should, just as you get negative karma for stealing when it would be impossible for anyone to realize it.

No. Didn't I explain this already? The karma system isn't concerned with results or how the world will react to the player's actions. It's an internal indicator that concerns the player alone. Doing bad things, regardless of who gets word, will net you bad karma.

 

 

and unlike every other game in the series and every other quest in Fallout 3 the karma system judged his death as an evil act on my part, despite many other evil characters having alternate non-violent solutions.

Really, stop throwing around these made up statements. There's no way to prove this. I have serious doubts that you have tried every possible outcome in every possible quest and killed any and all NPCs to test your theories. And also, since in F1/2, you didn't get notices every time your karma changed, it's unlikely you have any idea what you're talking about.

 

 

Its a massive deviation from the karma norm.

The "norm" being what happens if you shoot Tenpenny or Burke, right? Well, that's 2v1, so it's hardly a "norm".

 

 

Karma isn't supposed to be a system that judges you on being able to handle an evil character with an alternate non-aggressive means. The karma system isn't supposed to require 'physical proof'.

Right. The karma system is supposed to gauge how good the character is, their intentions, and how much are they willing to go out of their way to make things better for others. Yes, this includes trying to prove to some bigots that ghouls aren't necessarily evil - even if some are.

 

 

Its why you can get positive Karma for offing Doc Morbid without evidence of his 'human meat' in the basement and why you can walk right up to Tenpenny and blast him.

But that's FO2, and this is FO3. The technology has changed, and so, the game is able to require from you that you have something more solid than a gut feeling to off the first dude that looks at you funny. If you can't possibly live with the karma hit, that is.

 

 

You are treating the karma system as if it is the judicial system when it is more of a 'mystical' system.

Hahaha. So? You are justifying your actions by means of metagaming. Your only reason to be 100% sure that Roy needs killing is the hindsight provided by the almighty reload function. And you expect the devs to reward you for metagaming?

 

But at any rate, It's not a question of material evidence, but a question of motivation, in-game reasons, and ultimately roleplaying - a concept which obviously, you don't quite completely grasp. If, in-game, your character only has his whimsical gut feeling as a reason to off Roy, he's a vigilante at best... a fickle sociopath at worst.

 

 

Also, yes I actually do consider Roy significantly more evil than those who hire you to kill him and the other ghouls. Many of the inhabitants are (correctly it turns out) motivated by fear of the ghouls, or a (correct) fear that they may get violent over the repeated refusal of allowing them to live in the tower. Instead of moving on and leaving the tower to the inhabitants, Roy is only interested in murder and is veiling that lust for blood behind an excuse of being persecuted. Also, the hit-job against the ghouls is just 3 ghouls. The assault on the tower is well over 30 men, women and possibly children.

This is strictly false. Roy is interested only in the tower. He just happens not to want to share it with its current inhabitants, which he hates. Further, he has no problem sharing it with the player, a human. If he were driven by his bloodthirst as opposed to his desire to live in there, he would be roaming the wastes murdering humans, not sitting in some tunnels, waiting for his chance to take what he wants.

 

Also, good work at trying to portrait the humans as the poor victims of murderous ghouls, and suggesting that their bigotry against ghouls as a whole is justified by the actions of a single ghoul, but that's really no different than justifying real world racists by mentioning the instances of crimes committed by people of the race(s) they hate. A bigot is a bigot, and a bigot willing to hire hitmen is no better than said hitmen, or the criminals that form the core of the fears that fuel their bigotry. No better as in, not less evil.

 

But yeah, being hired to kill three people is much more acceptable than doing the same for over thirty. Really, it is! \o/

 

 

Again, I have no problem with a negative karma for killing the two ghoul followers of Roy. Its Roy and his relation to the karma system that is whack. About the only way I can rationalize a negative karma hit for Roy is if the game assumes the player is killing him out of bigotry, which certainly wasn't the way I was roleplaying the game.

So far, you have failed to come up with solid reasons to explain why it's "whack", other than your insistence that the player should be rewarded for killing Roy based on actions he will commit. As for roleplaying, you already admitted that you defer to the karma system, so... Edited November 12, 2008 by random n00b

[GreasyDogMeat]

-Well, we basically agree on the karma system then. Just said what I said in a different manner.

 

-No, I haven't tried killing everyone to see the result, just every character that has made an evil request of me, diplomatic possibility or not, and Roy has been the only one so far to pass out negative karma.

 

-Doc Morbid was actually F1. There were guides up that used to explain what actions would and wouldn't result in karma gains/losses.

 

-I shot Roy because, from his own words, he sounded like too much of a threat. I'm sorry if that is not considered roleplaying in your book. The game failed to take into account possible reasoning for taking out Roy besides simply doing it as part of the hit. I did NOT metagame shoot him. At least not the first time.

 

-I never claimed their bigotry as a whole was justified. It was ignorance from living with Tenpenny and his personal opinions in part. Many of them are nothing more than innocent victims. Maybe you didn't actually try the diplomatic solution, but a good number of them were more than willing to realize their prejudices were unfounded and willing to try living with the ghouls. The doctor, an older lady and the adventurer to name a few. How were they not innocent victims? Their prejudices were no worse than Roy's who wanted every last one of them out, even the 'enlightened' humans, confirmed by him having everyone killed when he moves in.

 

Even if it ended up being futile, I would have liked to have seen an option to tell the ghouls about underworld, or an option to say that all of Roy's ghouls could move in except him. Would have been awesome to see his response.

 

-Honestly, I don't see how 'evil person asks player to commit evil deed: player kills evil person and earns negative karma' is not 'whack'. There is another very similar situation where a ghoul in underworld asks you to kill 'ghoul bigots' when in reality he wants them dead because of a key they hold. As a player, you are able to get the keys without killing anyone and still complete the quest. That and you can assassinate this ghoul and not earn negative karma despite his request being a bit less evil than releasing feral ghouls on a tower full of inhabitants.

[Dark_Raven]

You two are still at it? Just kill both factions and be done with. Cleaning up the wastes of scum like Tenpenny and if collateral damage occurs so be it. Doing some genetic cleansing of the ghouls will do the wasteland some good. Bad Karma hit yes but lost of Exps and l00t. Feel bad about the Karma lost? Go do some goody two shoe quests to reclaim. There are plenty of those out there.

[thepixiesrock]

Tenpenny isn't scum, he just wants a brighter future for everyone. Everyone worth saving at least.

[GreasyDogMeat]

What can I say? I like a good argument.

 

Its going no where fast though. Might as well be arguing over religion or politics. Random isn't going to change my mind that it was bad use of the karma system and I'm not going to change his mind about it.

 

I've moved on quite a ways and all this arguing is doing is reminding me of a quest I'd like to forget.

[Aristes]

I tell you what, never charge Megaton for scrap metal. You want to have a rep so pristine they forget about the odd ruthless murder or two? Scrap metal, my good friends. Turn it in by the ton free of charge, and all those Last, Bestests Hopes for Humanity will pray to YOU from now on!

[GreasyDogMeat]

I always charged for it and I received the 'Last, Best Hope for Humanity' status.

[Aristes]

My point is, if you want to have a little cushion to let your inner devil loose, then turn in scrap metal. By the end of the game, you shouldn't need any money anyhow. You'll probably be filthy stinking rich, especially if you turn in the scrap metal free so you can steal more valuable stuff.

[random n00b]

-I shot Roy because, from his own words, he sounded like too much of a threat. I'm sorry if that is not considered roleplaying in your book. The game failed to take into account possible reasoning for taking out Roy besides simply doing it as part of the hit. I did NOT metagame shoot him. At least not the first time.

No, no. It IS roleplaying, if you are playing that way, shooting people you think is evil and all... in true vigilante fashion. That doesn't make it a GOOD action, which is the point I'm contending. Do you think Jesus (as in, Last, Best Hope of Humanity), would go around shooting people just because they "look like a threat"? GW would do that, not Jesus.

 

However, it is not roleplaying if you allow karma hits one way or the other to define the choices you make. That is just maxing karma.

 

 

-I never claimed their bigotry as a whole was justified. It was ignorance from living with Tenpenny and his personal opinions in part. Many of them are nothing more than innocent victims. Maybe you didn't actually try the diplomatic solution, but a good number of them were more than willing to realize their prejudices were unfounded and willing to try living with the ghouls. The doctor, an older lady and the adventurer to name a few. How were they not innocent victims? Their prejudices were no worse than Roy's who wanted every last one of them out, even the 'enlightened' humans, confirmed by him having everyone killed when he moves in.

This is relevant how? Those people aren't the bigots I asked about, and they are immaterial to the quest, since it's easy to convince them to accept the ghouls and thus are not part of the list Tenpenny compiles for you. You did however place those bigots on a different moral level from Roy's, when the only difference is that they won't stoop to getting their hands dirty - which is the reason they are living in the tower to begin with.

 

 

Even if it ended up being futile, I would have liked to have seen an option to tell the ghouls about underworld, or an option to say that all of Roy's ghouls could move in except him. Would have been awesome to see his response.

Yes, the option to tell them about Underworld would have been nice, but it it wouldn't really change things... the ghouls want to live in the tower, not Underworld which, by the way, is already crowded enough.

 

 

-Honestly, I don't see how 'evil person asks player to commit evil deed: player kills evil person and earns negative karma' is not 'whack'.

I already addressed this - are you reading? He doesn't only offer the evil option. He is open (if only apparently) to a peaceful resolution to his conflict - which is what makes him difficult to portray as an unredeemable evil bastard. This only becomes clear after he cleans the place out.

 

 

There is another very similar situation where a ghoul in underworld asks you to kill 'ghoul bigots' when in reality he wants them dead because of a key they hold. As a player, you are able to get the keys without killing anyone and still complete the quest. That and you can assassinate this ghoul and not earn negative karma despite his request being a bit less evil than releasing feral ghouls on a tower full of inhabitants.

So, why are you bringing this up, again? It serves as a good example of the karma mechanics working as intended, and a quest that can be completed according to the player's outlook with favorable results. That is quite obviously not the way the Tenpenny Tower quest was designed. I don't understand your comparison.

 

 

Just kill both factions and be done with. [...] Bad Karma hit yes but lost of Exps and l00t.

I only kill for a fee. I get more loot than I can handle already from idiots attacking me all the time.

 

 

Random isn't going to change my mind that it was bad use of the karma system and I'm not going to change his mind about it.

No, the bad use of karma isn't specifically in Roy's case (see Messianic references above), but on Tenpenny, what with the game patting you on the back for walking up to him and shooting him in the face without trading a word. I haven't explored the Burke character too much, so perhaps there's a reason for the game doing that, but even if that's the case, it should require some sort of admission on Burke's part that he's simply carrying out instructions from his boss. Edited November 12, 2008 by random n00b

[~Di]

Yes, yes. We know such matters are so beneath you and all, but bear with us and just pretend this is some other high intellectual pursuit more suited to your mental stature, m'kay?

 

Okay, enough is enough. This is about the fifth time that you've issued a personal insult to me when I have been nothing but civil. Since I've repeatedly asked you to knock it off and you won't, so I'll ask someone else to have you knock it off. I still can't figure out why someone who's only been on this board for a few months "knows" me well enough to muster up such obvious dislike, but keep it to yourself from now on and address me as civilly as you would address anyone else on this forum.

Edited November 13, 2008 by ~Di

[Gorth]

Yes, yes. We know such matters are so beneath you and all, but bear with us and just pretend this is some other high intellectual pursuit more suited to your mental stature, m'kay?

 

Okay, enough is enough. This is about the fifth time that you've issued a personal insult to me when I have been nothing but civil. Since I've repeatedly asked you to knock it off and you won't, so I'll ask someone else to have you knock it off. I still can't figure out why someone who's only been on this board for a few months "knows" me well enough to muster up such obvious dislike, but keep it to yourself from now on and address me as civilly as you would address anyone else on this forum.

Knock it off noob!

 

It's all fine and dandy that You and GDM wants to have a bit of a wrestling match, but other people might just be here for the casual fun. Not to mention that the resorting to personal attacks, implied or explicit is never welcome, as it makes me have to get my hands out of my pocket and do actual work. My "grumpy old man" t-shirt that I wear at work is not just for show

[Hurlshort]

This thread is kinda lame. Can we talk about actual spoiler stuff here? Anyone else think the giant robot was simply awesome?

[Gorth]

This thread is kinda lame. Can we talk about actual spoiler stuff here? Anyone else think the giant robot was simply awesome?

Yes, you can talk about actual spoiler stuff here. I think this particlar quest (or whatever it is/was) has had it's karma rewards analysed plenty already

[GreasyDogMeat]

Wrestling match!? No wonder I felt violated.

 

I found the alien blaster! Was wandering the northern-western areas and ran into some sort of 'Theta Distress Signal' which lead to a crashed alien ship. The alien blaster is #*$#ing awesome.

 

Oh, I also shot down a vertibird with a single shot from my laser rifle which must have either been a glitch, or the chopper had received previous damage. Was running through a canyon, heard it coming, looked straight up took a shot and had shrapnel rain down from the sky. Was awesome...

[Aristes]

I'm level 13 with my latest game. I'm playing on Very Hard, and I think it can be tough. I mean, if you're careful, individual battles aren't that bad. There's still random stuff like the errant missle crit that will ruin your day. If you don't like to do the save/reload bit, I think it's actually tough, and if you save and reload, I think you should cut out the "it's sooooo easy" bragging.

 

On the other hand, you get to the critical money mass and, yeah, you're stocked and stoked and beating up bad guys right and left. I think that's a problem because of stimpaks but that was always a problem with the Fallout games. Stimpaks have made them super easy since Fallout 1. Of course, save/reload did too since crits were so overpowered and random you could could end up getting shotted by a crit in several different fights. Personally, I don't find Fallout 3 easier or harder than 1 or 2. I think it's super fun, though.

 

Liberty Prime (I think that's the name) is damned funny. I love his battle cries against communism. It's like the Mr. Handy robots and their statements. "You won't like me when I'm angry." "I'm going to kill you, you commie bastard!" hahaha "Communism is dead!" Splendid.

 

Oh, and I finally found Tenpenny Tower. Since I'd broken down and read the stuff folks said here, I offed Roy. When I used the intercom, the folks in the tower they tried to shake me down for 100 caps to get in. At that point, I told them to piss off and left. I don't give a crap if I ever talk to the Tenpenny people, just as long as they don't get in the way of my pursuit of my own personal heaven. In that case, I'll even out the scales and Roy and Tenpenny can take turns knocking on St. Peter's gate.

Edited November 13, 2008 by Aristes

[random n00b]

This thread is kinda lame. Can we talk about actual spoiler stuff here? Anyone else think the giant robot was simply awesome?

I wasn't aware that GDM and me discussing Tenpenny's prevented you from discussing other things? In fact, for a while we were the only ones who kept this alive.

 

The giant robot was nice, but I expected a quest to find a rare part or a schematic so it could be made operational. It struck me as odd that they were simply able to get it working like that, after years(?) of failures - and avoid any sort of glitch or malfunction at all. Could have been handled better.

Edited November 13, 2008 by Gorth
Lets drop the personal stuff

[Aristes]

I was actually quite relieved about the robot, although I agree he was largely incidental within the design. I was relieved because I was sure, while we were running down the road beating the crud out of all enclave comers, that Bethesda would force us to fight it. I was so happy that they didn't pull the quick and easy bait and switch with us. I was absolutely certain that it was going to be a real lame ending where we beat up the enclave only to fight the robot that got us that far.

 

For my part, I was happy with the "anti-climactic" ending. The complaints I've heard make sense, namely that the big-arsed brute could have gone in and put in the code. I also would have liked to see more detailed accounts of what occured after the end. ...But the fact that we didn't have a huge boss fight was great. I'm so tired of the formulaic boss fight at the end of games, especially with the temptation to do it with the robot, that I heaved a sigh of relief. All of my disappointment came after the end and the voice over and splash screen part didn't tell me anything. I didn't even care that the brute wouldn't do my dirty work. I just wanted to know what happened.

 

In this game, I'm not the last great crustless white bread golden haired savior dudley do right of the mounties repped hero. I'm more of a hard edged do gooder who expects a few bennies every now and then hero. Even after asking for a few rewards and offing a couple of allegedly good people who rubbed me the wrong way, including some idiot stick who thought I wanted to steal the parts off a robot he'd killed, I'm still a "paladin" I think. ...And I'm sure, after all is said and done, I could turn over a new leaf and be the L,BHfH or whatever. I might end up there inadvertently, since I can't, no matter how hard I try, make myself roleplay a slaver. Whether it's because of society or whatnot, I hate 'em, even in games. Maybe if there were a game that gave an honest to goodness decent argument for slavery along classical rather than colonial lines I wouldn't despise them so much, but I hate it in principal and I think I'll get a lot of goodytwoshoes rep for killing all the bastards in Paradise Hills. Ironic. I'll get great rep for murdering an entire town.

[random n00b]

For my part, I was happy with the "anti-climactic" ending. The complaints I've heard make sense, namely that the big-arsed brute could have gone in and put in the code. I also would have liked to see more detailed accounts of what occured after the end. ...But the fact that we didn't have a huge boss fight was great. I'm so tired of the formulaic boss fight at the end of games, especially with the temptation to do it with the robot, that I heaved a sigh of relief. All of my disappointment came after the end and the voice over and splash screen part didn't tell me anything. I didn't even care that the brute wouldn't do my dirty work. I just wanted to know what happened.

Yeah, my complaints with the ending are pretty much the same. After finishing the game once, I am left with a feeling that the main quest is just not good enough to pursue, so I'll be content with roaming around.

 

 

Ironic. I'll get great rep for murdering an entire town.

Including, directly and indirectly, a few slaves...

[~Di]

Got a problem. I'm in the escape tunnels with Dr. Li and her gang. Came to the terminal and room full of Enclave. Dr. Li said she'd hack the terminal and ran toward it. I went into the big room, guns blazing, and took out the Enclave. But the utility door off the hallway beyond the big room still remains inaccessible. I can't hack the terminal myself, Dr. Li apparently didn't hack it, and I'm stuck. Any suggestions?

 

The "inaccessible" door IS the way I'm supposed to go, right?

 

Help would be appreciated.