EA and DRM

[SteveThaiBinh]

Also, I'm unaware just how a reformat affects the whole process, but I've been under the impression that such a thing would also require a new activation.

That's very important. Gamers should be discouraged from reformatting and reinstalling in case this results in their computers being less buggy and more stable and all those hardworking EA tech support people lose their jobs.

[Magister Lajciak]

I just heard that the 3 installs limit actually refers to 3 different computers. That means that you can re-install unlimited times on the same computer, and it's only a problem when you get a new computer. Is that true?

 

Yes and no. If you change something on your computer, such as add or replace hardware, or if you reformat your hard drive and reinstall the OS (and a lot of people do that rather often), Securom might or might not count it as a new computer - there is no way to tell ahead of time and even the EA does not know what will trigger Securom to decide that it's a new computer. If you do any of those things, your game might simply stop working, since Securom might decide that it is a new system.

[Magister Lajciak]

There is no way, though, that I am transitioning to a pay-to-play model. Very simply, I don't rent stuff if it can be at all avoided - one of the reasons why I don't play MMORPGs. The only things I rent are those that I absolutely need and cannot afford to buy. Only "place to live" falls in this category at the moment. Games are something I like, but don't need. If the industry transitions to the pay-to-play model, I will simply stop playing computer games. I like computer games, but there are many other possibilities for spending my free time and should the pay-to-play model be adopted I will make use of them.

 

So, going to the movies or the arcade is unacceptable to you?

 

In my mind, going to the movies is different than renting a movie, but although I did not think of that, it is true that I don't go to arcades or cinemas.

 

I don't think it's reasonable to discount a different model beforehand based on speculation alone. It could be a better model than the current one depending on how they choose to implement it - but it could be worse too.

 

If they adopt the movie model (movies are eventually released on DVDs to buy) for games, I would be fine with that, as I could still buy them, though perhaps not at their initial release. Somehow I doubt that's what they have in mind though...

[neckthrough]

Hurlshot, I see no difference between a 3-install limit or 5-install limit or 50-install limit, on 1 machine or 5 machines or 20. I don't want any limit at all. Not because I'm going to play or install the game 20 times. Hell, I don't think I've ever installed any game more than twice or thrice tops. But it's important for me to have the freedom to install it as many times as I wish.

[Magister Lajciak]

A good article: Click Here

[Walsingham]

It seems pretty straightforward to me. I make a brand of liquor that tastes of apples. "Mmm... appley booze!" say the public.

 

Other people begin copying my appley booze. I become annoyed and put a chemical in my appley booze which makes you wee yourself. "Huzzah!" I cry. "Now people will know they are drinking genuine Walshy brand booze"

 

The public decide they would rather have booze without wetting themselves and even more go for the copies.

[Killian Kalthorne]

It seems pretty straightforward to me. I make a brand of liquor that tastes of apples. "Mmm... appley booze!" say the public.

 

Other people begin copying my appley booze. I become annoyed and put a chemical in my appley booze which makes you wee yourself. "Huzzah!" I cry. "Now people will know they are drinking genuine Walshy brand booze"

 

The public decide they would rather have booze without wetting themselves and even more go for the copies.

Sounds like a strange analogy for DRM, but...

 

No, its just strange.

[Magister Lajciak]

Check here for the 'commercial success' of draconian DRM:

 

http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=ERTS#ch...ource=undefined

 

Notice, how EA's stock has declined by about 20% since the release of Spore and the DRM fiasco. To be fair, the stock decline is probably not the result of DRM and might instead have something to do with the financial crisis plaguing the stock market, but EA's post-Spore stock market performance is still nothing to brag about.

[Hurlshort]

I'm pretty sure I saw a chart with Spore leading PC sales in every market except Europe, and the creature creator came in second. I'd go so far as to say that EA's stock tumbling has absolutely zero to do with Spore or DRM.

 

I did hear that Wall Street is crumbling due to draconian DRM. That is pretty obvious. In fact the bailout plan failed because Speaker Pelosi went off on the DRM practices of the republicans. They were like "We need DRM" and that's why they voted against the bailout.

[Jaesun]

I did hear that Wall Street is crumbling due to draconian DRM. That is pretty obvious. In fact the bailout plan failed because Speaker Pelosi went off on the DRM practices of the republicans. They were like "We need DRM" and that's why they voted against the bailout.

 

word

[GreasyDogMeat]

It seems pretty straightforward to me. I make a brand of liquor that tastes of apples. "Mmm... appley booze!" say the public.

 

Other people begin copying my appley booze. I become annoyed and put a chemical in my appley booze which gives you painful burning wee. "Huzzah!" I cry. "Now people will know they are drinking genuine Walshy brand booze"

 

The public decide they would rather have booze without wetting themselves and even more go for the copies.

 

Fixed.

 

I think its a pretty good analogy!

[random n00b]

Sounds to me like you need an urologist.

[GreasyDogMeat]

And its all Walsh's fault.

 

I'm going to get my Appley Booze from another source.

[Magister Lajciak]

I'm pretty sure I saw a chart with Spore leading PC sales in every market except Europe, and the creature creator came in second. I'd go so far as to say that EA's stock tumbling has absolutely zero to do with Spore or DRM.

 

Well, I did point out that it has probably more to do with the current stock market than with the negative publicity due to DRM. In fact, I just found an article indicating that Spore is selling rather well - it seems to have exceeded 1 million copies already (link: http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3170143). We don't really know the effect of the negative publicity on sales, though, since we don't know how many copies Spore would have sold without it. I think I remember reading about some supposedly conservative projections predicting sales of Spore at 5-8 million copies and possibly many more. But, of course, those projections were not just for the first few weeks of the game, but over a longer period and in any case they were just projections, so they could have simply been wrong (in either direction) regardless of the DRM issue.

[alanschu]

I'm pretty sure I saw a chart with Spore leading PC sales in every market except Europe, and the creature creator came in second. I'd go so far as to say that EA's stock tumbling has absolutely zero to do with Spore or DRM.

 

Well, I did point out that it has probably more to do with the current stock market than with the negative publicity due to DRM. In fact, I just found an article indicating that Spore is selling rather well - it seems to have exceeded 1 million copies already (link: http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3170143). We don't really know the effect of the negative publicity on sales, though, since we don't know how many copies Spore would have sold without it. I think I remember reading about some supposedly conservative projections predicting sales of Spore at 5-8 million copies and possibly many more. But, of course, those projections were not just for the first few weeks of the game, but over a longer period and in any case they were just projections, so they could have simply been wrong (in either direction) regardless of the DRM issue.

 

 

This is why Hell Kitty was bringing up that DRM bashers have the same issues to deal with regarding proof as anti-piracy advocates.

[Killian Kalthorne]

On a side note, Bethesda isn't using DRM in Fallout 3. They are using the same copy protection that is in Oblivion. A simple DVD check.

[Moatilliatta]

All hail Bethesda the saviour of PC gaming!

 

Anyway an EA sales rep has said something that might make anti-DRM heads happy:

[Deadly_Nightshade]

Well, I did point out that it has probably more to do with the current stock market than with the negative publicity due to DRM. In fact, I just found an article indicating that Spore is selling rather well - it seems to have exceeded 1 million copies already (link: http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3170143).

 

Well, it is also one of the most pirated games in history and, for a while at least, had one copy downloaded for every one sold (as of September 12th, it was estimated downloads exceeded one-million).

 

 

On a side note, Bethesda isn't using DRM in Fallout 3. They are using the same copy protection that is in Oblivion. A simple DVD check.

 

Are you sure? They used SecuROM for their GotY edition and both expansions.

[Killian Kalthorne]

Yes, it is SecuROM, but it is SecuROM without the DRM, the limited installs, and what not. At least that is what Pete Hines said in an interview I read. I think it is an earlier version of SecuROM, not the one being used in Spore or MEPC.

Edited October 1, 2008 by Killian Kalthorne

[Magister Lajciak]

On a side note, Bethesda isn't using DRM in Fallout 3. They are using the same copy protection that is in Oblivion. A simple DVD check.

 

This means I will be buying Fallout 3.

 

BTW: As a technical matter, a CD-check is also a from of DRM, hence the confusion between you and Nightshade, but it is a form of DRM that is vastly preferable to the online activations and install limits. Because this kind of confusion is common, I think we need a new term specifically for the DRM that makes the user's playing of the game dependent on the company even after he purchases the game. I think Draconian DRM would be a good term - it could be abbreviated as DDRM. The less restructive DRM could be called Friendly DRM or FDRM.

[Killian Kalthorne]

Okay, then I prefer FDRM over DDRM.

[Magister Lajciak]

Okay, then I prefer FDRM over DDRM.

 

Same here - and by a huge margin.

[Deadly_Nightshade]

On a side note, Bethesda isn't using DRM in Fallout 3. They are using the same copy protection that is in Oblivion. A simple DVD check.

 

This means I will be buying Fallout 3.

 

Yeah, I might pick up a copy as well - if only to show that games with lesser amounts of DRM will sell.

[Slowtrain]

On a side note, Bethesda isn't using DRM in Fallout 3. They are using the same copy protection that is in Oblivion. A simple DVD check.

 

This means I will be buying Fallout 3.

 

Yeah, I might pick up a copy as well - if only to show that games with lesser amounts of DRM will sell.

 

 

Wait. So you would rather pay for and purchase a terrible game with less annoying DRM than a really good game with super annoying DRM?

 

Isn't that a bit like choosing what TV shows to watch based on the content of the ads rather than the quality of the show?

[Deadly_Nightshade]

So you would rather pay for and purchase a terrible game with less annoying DRM than a really good game with super annoying DRM?

 

Yep, as I would not buy the "really good game" if it had "super annoying DRM."